4. How did you experience the book?

[John]

4. How did you experience the book?

[Fonch]

In my opinion was an awesome novel. I started to read like historical novel, and after converted in something look Matrix, but at finally was a christian allegory. Blatsov reminded me very much to the Nazguls. It is very satisfying the creation of Nikomakos the Hacker and the Devil. Overall the most interesting the theory of the subcreation, he developed the Tolkien`s theories. The french soldier Gerard is inpired in the fictional character Gerard created by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. Besides the genre of the alternate history likes me very much, because i wrote an article about utopia, dystopias, and uchronias. I remind that my friend Alfonseca gave me this book, because i thought that i have topronounce a lecture about his defeat in Waterloo. It was very interesting the opinion of the author, if Napoleon had won Waterloo. I thought that the situation of Napoleon had not changed a lot, because at finally he would have been defeated by the countries of Saint Alliance. Europe had more reservoirs. The people who want to read a description of the battle of Waterloo, please read the description, who wrote Victor Hugo in "The miserables". I think that in my opinion nobody wrote better this battle, and my opinion nobody understood better.

[Manuel]

Fonch, you have found me out! My description of the battle of Waterloo was summarized from "Les misérables," except for the small detail of who won it. You could try to find out which changes I made in the battle to affect its outcome.

[Celia]

Fonch wrote: "In my opinion was an awesome novel. I started to read like historical novel, and after converted in something look Matrix, but at finally was a christian allegory. Blatsov reminded me very much to ..."

You are an awesome reviewer, Fonch, and I appreciate your comments. I so want to understand this book and you have come a long way in helping me do that.

[Fonch]

Celia wrote: "Fonch wrote: "In my opinion was an awesome novel. I started to read like historical novel, and after converted in something look Matrix, but at finally was a christian allegory. Blatsov reminded me..."

Of course i have not any problem to help you Celia, but if you have any doubt the author will be able to help you, in the questions that you have doubt. When you conclude the book you will understand the authentic meaning of the book.

[Jill]

I found the novel very confusing until the author neatly tied it together at the end. But I do not understand "virtual reality" or believe human beings can create (as opposed to beget) other beings with free will, capable of doing something they're not programmed to do. I also don't understand the role of the hacker, how he (or his avatar) seems actually to be existing in this virtual reality. I see the value of fictionalizing alternative history (What if Napoleon had won at Waterloo) but don't think the same thing could be done in the way these second-level folks do it. How could their "Napoleon" be identical to the historical one except where they influence him to make a different decision? Interesting that the actual historical outcome does reassert itself even in the story though by different means, e.g. Napoleon is defeated and exiled, though by automatons.
I did find Lydia's "incarnation" fascinating. Since we named our oldest daughter Lydia Grace, I'm inclined toward that character!
I was puzzled by the statement on p. 199 that Luis returned to "what had always been his vocation" once he satisfied his thirst for adventure. Priesthood? If so, extremely subtle hints.

[Mariangel]

Jill wrote: "I was puzzled by the statement on p. 199 that Luis returned to "what had always been his vocation" once he satisfied his thirst for adventure. Priesthood? If so, extremely subtle hints. "

The vocation is an academic one. I think this is mentioned at the beginning.

[Mariangel]

Jill wrote: "But I do not understand "virtual reality" or believe human beings can create (as opposed to beget) other beings with free will, capable of doing something they're not programmed to do."

The author does not think we are even close to this virtual reality, either. As for being able to create other beings with free will, this is not new, there are tons of "rebellion of the robots" novels. We seem to really like this idea. ;)

[Manuel]

Jill wrote: "I also don't understand the role of the hacker, how he (or his avatar) seems actually to be existing in this virtual reality..."

Hackers act like this. They get into the work of others just to make mischief. An anecdote (which did not affect me while writing this book, for I wrote it 11 years earlier): a friend of mine was the chief investigator of the favorite team to win the DARPA 2011 Shredder Challenge. A hacker got into their work, and dedicated a lot of effort to destroy what they were doing, so that they would not win the challenge (finally they could only be sixth). The hacker later wrote an e-mail to my friend stating that his only aim was to make mischief and prevent them from winning the challenge.

[Manuel]

Mariangel wrote: "The vocation is an academic one. I think this is mentioned at the beginning."

True. In chapter 2, where it says: "He had always linked his future with the university, where some day he expected to study arts or letters."

[John]

Manuel wrote: "Fonch, you have found me out! My description of the battle of Waterloo was summarized from "Les misérables," except for the small detail of who won it. You could try to find out which changes I mad..."

Very, very, very briefly summarized. I think Hugo's description of Waterloo in Les Misérables is almost longer than Jacob's ladder.

[John]

I very much enjoyed the story, especially at the end as its allegorical structure became clear. I got into it right away and it read quite quickly. I agree with Jill that virtual reality characters couldn't have free will, but thought it was interesting as a premise. And I thought one of the interesting threads of this story was the allegory of the incarnation in Lydia's "descent" into the program.

[Manuel]

John wrote: "Very, very, very briefly summarized. I think Hugo's description of Waterloo in Les Misérables is almost longer than Jacob's ladder."

Almost true! Passing both books through the same ebook reader to equate font size and page size, Jacob's Ladder is 133 pages, and Waterloo (book I in the second part of Les Misérables) is 70 pages long.

[Mariangel]

Manuel wrote: Passing both books through the same ebook reader to equate font size and page size, Jacob's Ladder is 133 pages, and Waterloo (book I in the second part of Les Misérables) is 70 pages long. "

Not too bad, considering that Hugo can spend 70+ pages describing a storm at sea (and keeping you spellbound for all of it!)

[Manuel]

John wrote: "I agree with Jill that virtual reality characters couldn't have free will..."

I think the same. Although in the book I say We are very far from being able to build intelligent beings with feelings and free will, and it is not clear that we will be able to do it, which leaves the door open, personally I think strong artificial intelligence is impossible. But I find its idea very useful as a thought experiment.

Modern atheists use the following argument to prove the inexistence of God:
We have evolved as a result of the interaction of chance and necessity. Therefore, God probably does not exist.

I use the following counter-argument:
In my experiments on artificial life (simulation of living beings in the computer) I use as a tool evolution based in (pseudo-)chance and necessity. If one day intelligent beings appeared inside my experiments, they could use the following parallel argument:
We have evolved as a result of the interaction of chance and necessity. Therefore, Manuel Alfonseca probably does not exist.
As we are seeing the situation from the other side, we know that in that case this argument would be clearly wrong (in other words, we know that I do exist). Therefore we can infer that very probably it is also wrong when applied to us.

Before writing this book I had worked in the field of artificial life. This is one of my technical papers on the subject:
Complex Systems in APL: Fractals, Evolving Cellular Automata and Artificial Life

Regards,

[Manuel]

Mariangel wrote: "Not too bad, considering that Hugo can spend 70+ pages describing a storm at sea (and keeping you spellbound for all of it!)..."

I have passed "L'homme qui rit" through the same ebook reader and the storm is just 56 pages! So Waterloo wins.

[Fonch]

Manuel wrote: "Mariangel wrote: "Not too bad, considering that Hugo can spend 70+ pages describing a storm at sea (and keeping you spellbound for all of it!)..."

I have passed "L'homme qui rit" through the same ..."

Victor Hugo is a giant of the literature, but in ocassions like the majority of the writers is very irregular. However nobody cannot deny that "Miserable" is a masterpiece, in change i did not like "Our lady of Paris", but it is my personal opinion, for example her novel about Lucretia Borgia is a disaster. Hugo in his beggining wanted to be like his master Chateaubriand. He used to say that he would be Chateuabriand, or nothing. It is a pity that "The genius of the christianity" and "The martys ot the triumph of the christianity" were not translated to English, because i would have recomended to this literary group. I was very critic with Chateaubriand, because i though that he was very hostile to my country (Spain) i read the Last abencerraje, but i did not like anything, but "The genius of the christianity" despite some mistakes being an amaizing apology of the christianity. There are chapters that i loved it, but the superiority of the Christian Epic against Pagan Epic is one of my favorite, indeed Chateuabriand tested his theory, and he created a wonderful epic "The martyrs". Coming back to "Jacob`s ladder" when i read the novel i am very impressed by Blatsov, the evil creature, who pursued the heor of the story. I am very fascinated that Alfonseca used a Hacker like a Devil is a great exercise of imagination, and intelligence. I had seen the devil like a Critic of Art (Jardiel Poncela), like a brain (Wrinkle in the time was written by Madeleine L`Éngle, and like an alien "Case of conscious" James Blish, but i have never seen as a devil. Alfonseca is a genius, is briliant. A thing that i would have liked to comment is his wonderful epilogue, where he told the origin of the alternate books. I conclude say thanks to John, and the members of this literary grup for giving the chance to test the big talent of Manuel Alfonseca.

[John]

Modern atheists use the following argument to prove the inexistence of God:
We have evolved as a result of the interaction of chance and necessity. Therefore, God probably does not exist.

I use the following counter-argument: ..."

Not working in that field, but being an attorney, my counter-argument is different: You assume what you seek to prove. You don't see the hand of God, so you ascribe evolution to chance. Having ascribed evolution to chance, you claim this is evidence that God does not exist.

[John]

Fonch wrote: "Manuel wrote: "Mariangel wrote: "Not too bad, considering that Hugo can spend 70+ pages describing a storm at sea (and keeping you spellbound for all of it!)..."

I have passed "L'homme qui rit" th..."

I would like to thank you, Fonch, for suggesting that we read Manuel's book. I enjoyed it very much and look forward to reading more of his work.

[Fonch]

John wrote: "Fonch wrote: "Manuel wrote: "Mariangel wrote: "Not too bad, considering that Hugo can spend 70+ pages describing a storm at sea (and keeping you spellbound for all of it!)..."

I have passed "L'hom..."

Thanks, John these words will make very happy to Manuel Alfonseca. I cheer up, that somebody apreciate, and admired their books.

[Manuel]

John wrote: "You assume what you seek to prove. You don't see the hand of God, so you ascribe evolution to chance. Having ascribed evolution to chance, you claim this is evidence that God does not exist."

Yes, they usually incur in circular reasoning and other logical fallacies, as I pointed out in this post in my blog:
http://populscience.blogspot.com/2015/11/logical-falacies.html

[Celia]

Reading this book, I felt that I was journeying from pitch black darkness to true illuminated light. I did not understand much of anything until Ch 13 when the light was immediately turned on.

I was intrigued by the concept of the characters in the experiment having free will. They were so real to me for over half the book, that I wanted to impose all human characteristics on them. I, like Lydia, want them to survive and live on.

And yes, Manuel, I see this book as science fiction now. It has a machine, the computer, which helps to simulate the alternate history.

Alternate history is at the second echelon. The experiment and science fiction is at the first.

I feel that this is one of the best catholic fiction I have read. So much imagination and so much to think about.

[Fonch]

Celia wrote: "Reading this book, I felt that I was journeying from pitch black darkness to true illuminated light. I did not understand much of anything until Ch 13 when the light was immediately turned on.

I w..."
This kind words of Celia confirm my words :-).