Amazon is doing something strange with paperbacks

[Amy]

You've got one there for $3000 Carole. And Wolfen yours isn't even available yet? Well I'll be confuzzled then.

£19.84 for mine. Or £6.99. Bargain lol.

[Carole]

I want to know who is buying If You Were Me and Lived in ...Mexico- all 22 pages of it for 3000 dollars- it just cheapens the books- makes them look out of print. UGH

[Amy]

I know. It does make it look unavailable because that's what I heard people do with products they don't have in stock. Keep the listing but raise the price to something no-one would be willing to spend. Odd.

[Ben]

All of our books have an electronic copy and paperback copy.

We have our own ISBNs for all of our books. We have all of the electronic copies on Amazon exclusively (tried Ingram didn't like it, sales were non-existent).

We have all of the paperback books through both Createspace and Ingram. Ingram has our expanded distribution, Createspace just has Amazon.

All of our kid's books have a kindle, paperback, hardcover and audible copy. They all appear on the one book page on Amazon, but if you order a hardcover it comes from Ingram.

The royalties on hardcover are super low, like $1 or $1.50 a book, the price is higher, but we still sell 10 or so a month plus more towards Xmas.

We don't sell a lot through Ingram, but we are only now starting to get rolling on Canadian Indie bookstore promotions.

We have the returns option turned off which pretty much kills any chance of a retailer stocking the book, but we can't afford to repay the postage on books. I would be willing to take the chance that I had to refund all my royalties, but can't afford to be losing money.

If anyone has any questions just message me. I think if you go to the effort of publishing a book, you owe it to yourself to have a paperback copy alongside an eBook.

[Wolfen]

Amy wrote: "And Wolfen yours isn't even available yet? Well I'll be confuzzled then."

Oh, it's not that it's not available, just that no one has bought one yet (but me, as gifts).

[Wolfen]

Carole wrote: "I want to know who is buying If You Were Me and Lived in ...Mexico- all 22 pages of it for 3000 dollars- it just cheapens the books- makes them look out of print. UGH"

I wish Amazon could do something about that -- it hurts the authors! Why do those sellers even do it, claim they have it when they don't, rather than simply not list it??

[Theodore]

Alex wrote: "Unfortunately it isn't against their T&Cs. You see the same kind of thing all the time on eBay, people list items they don't currently possess because they only buy when they get a sale. It works i..."

"Why people pay the inflated prices some of the listings ask for, instead of buying via the official listing from us, is another question entirely, and one I'd be interested in hearing the answer to."

I'd give you my answer, but this is a family site.

[Amy]

Alex wrote: "I know of one answer too, but I'm hoping it's something beyond what I suspect."

What beyond being a nutter? I mean-here's two identical things this one is quicker and cheaper than the one that will cost you way more and take forever to get to you...

[Amy]

Yep that'd do as well.

[Theodore]

Alex wrote: "Amy wrote: "Alex wrote: "I know of one answer too, but I'm hoping it's something beyond what I suspect."

What beyond being a nutter? I mean-here's two identical things this one is quicker and chea..."

Ding, ding, ding, ding...we have a winner!

[R.L.]

lol y'all crack me up

[Amy]

I'm just reading through this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/t...

[Carole]

Yep- only Amazon is eating their own as well. She was wrong that if you publish through Createspace you are protected. No one is safe.

[Amy]

I don't know how long Createspace has left, but I can't see Amazon running that and their paperback Beta.

[Erica]

Hmm...this whole scenario sounds very familiar...

[Theodore]

Amy wrote: "I don't know how long Createspace has left, but I can't see Amazon running that and their paperback Beta."

I haven't seen any problems with CS...just published a book with them yesterday (illustrated children's storybook) and have another in proof now. No hint of an attempt to move me to another platform.

[Carole]

Wait it's arbitrary- I noticed it in February with our books. Now i've noticed traditional publishers too.
My son thinks they want to dissuade people from paperbacks- if they push authors to publish on KDP, they'll eliminating the cost of POD- printing and shipping.

[Amy]

So do you think they'll ditch Createspace now they own that?

[Carole]

There's been talk of it- When I spoke to them- they said they were consolidating and there will be pod on KDP- BUT- I see a master plan down the line for them.

[Theodore]

Carole wrote: "There's been talk of it- When I spoke to them- they said they were consolidating and there will be pod on KDP- BUT- I see a master plan down the line for them."

Frankly, I can't see reading an illustrated children's storybook to a class of 1st graders from an iPad or a whiteboard. That's about as ridiculous as it gets.

[Erica]

I feel there is SOMETHING in the works. Hopefully it's nothing major or at least nothing more than consolidating everything down to one platform to make things easier to manage. Either way, I don't think it hurts to have a back up plan, even if you never end up using it. This is just my opinion though. I haven't read or seen anything official yet.

[R.L.]

Woooow Amazon is getting more disappointing by the minute

[Erica]

Theodore wrote: "Carole wrote: "There's been talk of it- When I spoke to them- they said they were consolidating and there will be pod on KDP- BUT- I see a master plan down the line for them."

Frankly, I can't see..."

I completely agree with that! I did a survey of parents on another group and the majority of them said the ONLY time they buy a digital picture book is to see if they want to buy the print version.

[Carole]

That's why I purchased all the ISBN's and loaded them onto Ingram- They are going to be more widely distributed to other outlets. With Createspace itis mainly on Amazon. I still maintained the Createspace ISBN's on Amazon (I didn't want to lose all my reviews), but now mass distribution will be done through Createspace. My KIndle sales with the kids books have always been dismal- paperbacks is were we shine with those and this book bin hit us squarely in that pocket.

[Amy]

Theodore wrote: "Frankly, I can't see reading an illustrated children's storybook to a class of 1st graders from an iPad or a whiteboard. That's about as ridiculous as it gets."

No that would be daft or an enormous iPad, which is not the point of the iPad, so therefore daft.

[Carole]

That was my point. Thanks for finding that article. When I spoke to Createspace they made me feel like I was going crazy.

[Erica]

I have been highly recommending to authors to own their ISBNs. Someone recommended that to me when I started and I am very grateful. Your decision to put your books on two platforms was very smart. No company is ever a guarantee, but it is less likely something will happen to two companies at the same time. This will help ensure your books are always available. I hope to eventually get all mine on a second platform but I wasn't quick enough to get them done in time with the last free set up promotion for Ingram spark.

[Amy]

Is Ingram the one to go for? I went straight for KDP and Smashwords for the other eBook retailers. I haven't looked at a second platform for the paperback or bought my own ISBN. I can do that when I've got some money.

[Erica]

I did some research and I like Ingram, but I know there are many others out there that people like. There is a $50 set up fee per book and you have to repay that fee ($25 for the cover, $25 for the interior) if you make changes to the file after approving it. But they do a free promotion once or twice a year where they waive the fee. The promotion just ended last month. I am setting up a hardcover version through them, but didn't get around to doing my paperback. If you want to do paperback, I would still recommend createspace right now since they are cheaper, have no set up fees, and work quickly with Amazon. If you own the ISBN you will be able to use multiple companies but createspace is a great choice for people who don't have the money for that. Just realize you will have to buy one later if you switch from Createspace. I personally preferred Ingram's printing and hardcover option when deciding on a second company. I have a hardcover copy on the way and will update everyone with the quality. :)

[R.L.]

I agree Alex. I've already heard iBooks is trailing albeit slowly but the Zon is gonna piss off the people providing their bread and butter and force them to other outlets. And it may be for the better to be honest.

[Amy]

I've had a whole eleven sales outside of Amazon, two on iBooks and the rest Smashwords (when they did a free event-so yeah I was wondering just then why I hadn't been paid anything-free). I'm happy I have the ebook on other platforms as well.

I'd like to look at putting the paperback somewhere else, but I can't afford to pay an awful lot for the privilege.

[Amy]

Who else publishes paperbacks other than Ingram?

[Erica]

Lulu is another very popular one. You can find tons of videos and articles online that compare Ingram, Lulu, and Createspace. Bookbaby is another one.

[Erica]

I chose Ingram spark over Lulu because their color books were cheaper and there was a premium print option. I think they are more comparable on black and white books though.

[Carole]

Lulu and Bookbaby do nothing to promote them. With Ingram you can opt to be put in a catalog- called Advance- you can pay for advertising- 89 dollars or advertise without paying- which means a smaller ad- but their catalogue is sent monthly to libraries and bookstores all over the world. They are the second largest bookseller in the country. Guess who is first?

[Erica]

Good point Carole! That was another reason I went with Ingram Spark.

[Carole]

I had a bad experience with Lulu- they were incompetent to deal with. Couldn't get a manager- they promised I could do stuff for free and then had to charge me- It was all very complicated. Bookbaby was very nice. They were lovely people, but you have to buy 25 copies before they'll even try to sell your books. Somehow it cost me 900 dollars to get a hardcover published. Ingram was free with a coupon, 45 or 49 dollars without. I now buy my own ISBNs- never getting on that train again. The customer service was good, Createspce def the most helpful. I hated moving my stuff over- but business is business.

[Carole]

The quality is not the same as CS- and I think the royalty is slightly smaller- but hopefully we'll make it up on volume.

[Theodore]

Erica wrote: "Good point Carole! That was another reason I went with Ingram Spark."

But what about "return costs" with Ingram Spark? How many indies can afford to use this option? And without it, brick and mortar won't touch you (us).

[Carole]

I accepted the return on books in the states only. I've had returns on Creatspace too- it's never been much.

[Theodore]

Carole wrote: "I accepted the return on books in the states only. I've had returns on Creatspace too- it's never been much."

Did it help get your books into stores?

[Erica]

Theodore wrote: "Erica wrote: "Good point Carole! That was another reason I went with Ingram Spark."

But what about "return costs" with Ingram Spark? How many indies can afford to use this option? And without it, ..."

That is true. I opted out of that option for now because I can not afford it. However, I feel I still have a better chance of getting into brick and mortar with Ingram spark as stores would not be buying from a competitor. I can always enable that option in the future if I want. My main goal for now is to have a hardcover option available since I have had multiple requests. I would also like to have my books available through a second distributor so I don't have all my eggs in one basket and to expand my reach. Since I own my ISBNs, it doesn't cost me any extra if I catch a free set up promotion. Otherwise it would cost me $50 a book (still not terrible). I still recommend createspace to people who are just learning the POD process or who have a tight budget. :)

[Theodore]

I had a request for hardback copies of my YA novel from the local high school that's using it as part of their Core Genre curriculum. However, when I looked into publishing same using Ingram, I would have to charge more than $27 per copy to even make $1 royalty. There's no way the school would pay that amount for one book. They seem content to use the paperback editions, replacing them as necessary. HS kids are hard on all books, paperback and otherwise. BTW, they bought a ton of the Kindle editions...in the ratio of 5:1, Kindle to paperback.

[Erica]

Did you look into Ingram or Ingram Spark? Just curious. Ingram Spark is part of the same company but they are print on demand and you don't have to buy in bulk (though buying in bulk does save on shipping). I agree that would be WAY too much! I am surprised at the amount of Kindle sales. But it also makes sense with how much this generation is on devices. :) Also, congrats on your novel being used for curriculum! That is very exciting!

[Erica]

When I said Ingram I was referring to their lightning source division. Just wanted to clarify. :)

[Theodore]

Erica wrote: "Did you look into Ingram or Ingram Spark? Just curious. Ingram Spark is part of the same company but they are print on demand and you don't have to buy in bulk (though buying in bulk does save on s..."

Ingram Spark, Erica. It was POD, for sure. And thanks.

[Erica]

Interesting. I was able to price mine at 17.95 with full color. According to their calculator, that gives me about a $2 royalty (which is how much I make with paperback). It is less pages though and, although it was a decent amount, I did not allow the full discount amount to bookstores. If I had, it would have been priced above $20. I figured if nothing else, I will be able to order hardcover versions for myself for various causes and book sale events. I haven't put it out there yet so maybe I missed something and I will have to change it. We will see and I will be sure to keep the group posted. :) Thanks for your input!

[Theodore]

Erica wrote: "Interesting. I was able to price mine at 17.95 with full color. According to their calculator, that gives me about a $2 royalty (which is how much I make with paperback). It is less pages though an..."

My book was 242 pages in length...no color. Perhaps I did something incorrectly. The paperback sells for $9.99...sales of that edition have been nil. YA readers largely read iBooks, and here, I use Kindle exclusively.

[Erica]

Sounds like you have already found the best option for your book. :) If people aren't paying the 9.99 for paperback, I wouldn't waste my money getting it into hardcover unless you want to go all out to get it into brick and mortar. And like you already said, to fully take advantage you have to be willing to pay for returns which could be costly.

[Theodore]

Erica wrote: "Sounds like you have already found the best option for your book. :) If people aren't paying the 9.99 for paperback, I wouldn't waste my money getting it into hardcover unless you want to go all ou..."

Absolutely. The only reason I looked into it in the first place was because the librarian inquired of me. Clearly, it's not going to happen.