Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion
If you could pay to have your book become an instant Amazon best seller would you?
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No, I think Id rather know that the book got there of its own merit.
Ruth wrote: "No, I think Id rather know that the book got there of its own merit."So do I.
I wouldn't. I've already invested enough money in my books.
No, because I wpuld want my books to be remembered than to be one-time hits. And if the crowd doesn't love your book, then it's not worth it.
I can't imagine myself paying for my book to be selling well, but I wouldn't mind dancing on a couple of tables dressed... well...euh! you know how. LOL
No, I agree with most of you, it should sell on it's own merit. One of mine did make the top 10 in an obscure category, it felt good but it didn't boost sales lol.
Unfortunately, if a book doesn't get noticed it has less chance to sell. WhatI I've learned is there is no such thing as an overnight success. Even if a book goes to the top of any list, it has to stay there to be noticed. Promotion is ongoing and constant. I've done expensive ads, but they last for a short period of time and then a book can sink back into obscurity of higher ratings and not be noticed. There is a lot of different factors that go into being kept in the top ratings- You have to work diligently on keeping your books in the public eye by having them on blogs or articles written about it, having contests and giveaways and getting your books attached to other best-sellers so they pop up as a suggestion. Nothing you ever do in an instant has staying power- selling books, like anything else is a long process that has to be nurtured. I built my business from scratch- it took years of diligent work to get it profitable. I became a teacher, it took years of going to school and learning my subject. The same applies to the success of a book.
I want to add that every night while we watch television I see hundreds of ads for movies. Advertising sells products. Books, while they can be intensely personal are a product. The big traditional houses also pay for that real estate on Amazon to keep their books in the public eye. I spent a lot o money publicizing my son's books. The end result was he got noticed by an agent and just signed a two book deal- so I am hoping my investment paid off.
Carole wrote: "Unfortunately, if a book doesn't get noticed it has less chance to sell. WhatI I've learned is there is no such thing as an overnight success. Even if a book goes to the top of any list, it has to..."
Carol, everything you say is correct. I having been constantly promoting my book for two years to keep sales and rankings decent. Now I am promoting the second book in the saga which was recently released. It takes work and diligence. Even the traditional publishers expect the author to self publicize with social media.
The publishers told my son he'd have to do self-promotion as well. Between us we have over forty books that I am constantly promoting. Even ones that are five-years old get the same attention as the newer ones. I have told this story on other threads here. I knew an artist when asked how long it took to paint a picture, she said 20 minutes and twenty years. 20 minutes of labor and twenty years of experience. I always think of that.
I think authors have to decide when they start- what are they doing this for? Is it for themselves, the fame or financial gain. If it's for yourself, then it's a great accomplishment. You are leaving a permanent piece of yourself behind. If it's for fame, if one person reads and is affected- then you've shared a part of yourself with a stranger- Is that not fame? If it's financial, then treat it as a business, your writing is the product. In order to sell any product you need investment, whether it's time or money or both. Everybody talks about the people who "make it" like JK Rowling or the Fifty Shades of Gray person, or even Twilight. I read Rowling's biography- it was neither overnight or easy. Anyone I know who is successful, and I know a lot of people like that- got there by working and selling themselves to get to the next level to be noticed.
Being an Amazon bestseller doesn't accomplish what you achieve as a storyteller-which is to move a reader with a story so no I wouldn't. Books will be around forever so why not appreciate the longevity that they had instead of trying to be a one, two or three hit wonder.
I get emails and messages every week from readers telling me that they were either touched by my story, related to it or that it brought back memories for them. To me, this is the greatest reward. This is something I accomplished and people like it. I put myself out there and it could have been a flop, but it wasn't. As for the money, that is icing on the cake. It would be nice. I would love to quit my day job and write full time. The money also makes us feel that we have achieved success. But I already feel that I've achieved that. The rest is gravy.
No. There are already enough dodgy promoters out there that authors can pay to make their books instant bestsellers by using click farms and other black hat methods. And none of those titles stay at "bestseller" ranks for long, as they don't have the story to hold readers.I'd rather reach real readers and gain real followers.
Well, I didn't expect so many responses, this is great! So the first question then is what does it mean to be a best seller on Amazon? Is it just having the title once, or long term best seller standing? To be a best seller on amazon you have to have between 2,000-3,500 people buy your book in a certain amount of time. So The NYTimes-style of best selling books, however, are long-term best sellers. You can't buy a NYT best seller placement, as far as I know, but if you could buy the equivalent on Amazon and that got you national recognition, wouldn't that be a no brainer?
Plus, since we all already spend money on other forms of marketing, how could it possibly hurt to have "Best Seller" next to the title?
Would a legitimate marketing campaign that did place your book as a best seller be worth the money? I'd have to say absolutely yes.
Yes, a legitimate marketing campaign should be used no matter if your book becomes a best-seller or not. If a tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it- did it really fall. It's the same thing as a book- if you take the time to write a books and it doesn't get read- did it make a difference? Marketing does not have to cost a lot of money. While it takes a lot of time and effort, promotion brings your book into the limelight and there is always the possibility it will catch that wave and become a best-seller.
In answer to your question- there are several different ways a books can become a best-seller on Amazon.
If it reaches the number one spot in it's category- then it is a best-seller. It gets an orange banner that says Number 1 Best seller- for as long as it holds the spot. These books generally don't stay in the number one position. As new releases come out, they get moved around. You want your book to stay in the top 100 of it's category for as long as you can.
If it stays in the top 100 of it's category- it remains a best-seller, gets hooked up to other best-sellers and the cover is shown with other top 100 books.
If it reaches 100 in Amazon's best-sellers- outside of categories- you've really made it.
Carole wrote: "Yes, a legitimate marketing campaign should be used no matter if your book becomes a best-seller or not. If a tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it- did it really fall. It's the same thing a..."So, if there was a legitimate marketing campaign that you could pay for that would garuntee that you would be number 1 in your genre on Amazon, would you pay for it?
Does the length of time that you are number 1 matter? Is a week worth paying for? 2 weeks? A month? A year?
These are ultimately the questions this topic is trying to pose
Obviously nothing like that exists, but if it did.....
Jane wrote: "Don't it depend on how much money?"How much do it would be worth? I personally think the length of time matters in terms of what I would be willing to pay. Of course if something like this did exist, it would most likely cost a fortune.
Hypothetically speaking, let's say aguaranteed top 100 spot in your genre on Amazon for 1 month is $2500. I think it would be worth it.
I guess it would all depend on how many sales you would generate just by being a best seller for a month.
I'm thinking it would have the potential to get the book noticed and subsequently spark awareness, recognition, and sales. Therefore, I do think it would be a good investment.
I paid 650 for a bookbub ad for 1 day and it got me almost 2000 kindle sales, tens of thousands of pages read on kindle unlimited and a ranking in the top 100 in a few categories. It's really not much different than paying for Amazon exposure. The point is to get noticed so more people will buy your book. It's not about buying a ranking.
No.A best seller is just that. Many people have bought the book. It gets there through its own merit.
You cannot buy that, and should not attempt to.
Being a best seller is a by-product not a marketing tool.
Now, I'd like to be able to get more exposure so more readers have the opportunity of buying my book. But that's very different from what you're asking.
Effie wrote: "I paid 650 for a bookbub ad for 1 day and it got me almost 2000 kindle sales, tens of thousands of pages read on kindle unlimited and a ranking in the top 100 in a few categories. It's really not m..."In real life no it's not, but that was not the intention of the question. Just as you mentioned, you paid for an ad that ultimately got you sales. That's why we pay for ads. In real life, the hope is that our ads not only reach people but also get them to buy our product(s).
In order to become a best seller, you have a certain number of sales. That's obvious. In real life you can pay ad, but that does not guarantee that there will be any subsequent revenue generated. In other words, every ad campaign has some element of risk.
The premise of the question is what if there was a no-risk campaign that would yield best-seller sales? How much would that be worth to you?
T.L. wrote: "No.A best seller is just that. Many people have bought the book. It gets there through its own merit.
You cannot buy that, and should not attempt to.
Being a best seller is a by-product not a ma..."
Then maybe the question has been phrased the wrong way. Again if we apply real life logic, of course it would not work. I'm speaking purely hypothetically. If there was a marketing campaign that you could pay for that would guaranteed you became a best seller i.e. multiple people purchasing you book, reviewing your book, sharing your book with others, and all the other organic things it takes to be a best seller, how much would that be worth to you?
Let me clarify, when I say best seller, I'm not simply talking about a ranking. I'm mean it in the literal sense. Because of this "campaign," your book was bought 100,000 times on Amazon. How much would this imaginary campaign be worth to you?
I've paid for the ad campaigns on both Goodreads and Amazon- One single ad campaign won't do the trick. The ad runs and once it's over, your book slides back down the ratings. An ad has to run for months and be seen in multiple places. The idea of paying for a single method and your book would become a best-seller isn't feasible. I work with the studios. They have departments devoted to each type of publicity- with trained professionals that have been networked everywhere and know where you have to place pictures, words or connections to a project. They create spin months before a movie is released-making people look for it. Now if you change the concept to paying a team of publicists and marketers- like traditional publishers do- where they have a comprehensive, tried and true strategy to get your book in the publics eye, and could put a price on that- I would consider it.
There was a book in England- some marketer got hold of it- It was said that that book could put any child to sleep. Using that as the marketing hook- they got every station on television to feature it. It was in every magazine, blogs-everywhere. The book became a big success and made it to the Times Best Sellers list.
Carole wrote: "I've paid for the ad campaigns on both Goodreads and Amazon- One single ad campaign won't do the trick. The ad runs and once it's over, your book slides back down the ratings. An ad has to run for ..."Again your missing the point. This is a "what if" scenario. We all know in real life it's not possible. The question is meant to be an imaginary situation in which you could do instantly what morally takes weeks, months, or years if you paid enough money. If it was possible for 1 ad campaign to instantly result in your book selling 100,000 copies. How much would that be worth to you? Would you even take advantage of it?
For me personally, I'm writing a book with my wife. I love the process of bouncing ideas off of her, creating stories and characters, and worlds for those characters to live in. However, we started selling our book on Amazon in the hopes that we could make enough money for her to quit her job and write full time. It would totally be worth it for me to ensure that she is able to do that. To see all of her passion and vigor for writing be rewarded.
Malcom wrote: "Effie wrote: "I paid 650 for a bookbub ad for 1 day and it got me almost 2000 kindle sales, tens of thousands of pages read on kindle unlimited and a ranking in the top 100 in a few categories. It'..."And no, I wouldn't want to buy my way to the best sellers list. There is no personal reward in that.
Malcom wrote: "Again your missing the point. This is a "what if" scenario. We all know in real life it's not possible. "Actually it is possible. There are plenty of advertisers who will take your money and propel your book right up the charts, so long as you don't have any ethical concerns.
And there are also numerous indie authors who will make a concerted run at the USA Today/NYT bestseller lists and succeed (but it takes a load of time, effort and cash).
The bigger question is what are your goals? Do you want the bestseller label? Or do you want a sustainable full time income? Throwing thousands at an advertising campaign will get you sales but it won't gain you readers. Just because someone buys a book, doesn't mean they will read it if the story or craft fail to deliver.
There are plenty of USA Today/NYT bestsellers who can't make ends meet and need other full time employment. And there are just as many unknown authors who earn full time livings from their books, even though they have never hit a list and people don't know their names. Personally, I'd rather have a steady following of readers who I know will keep buying my books because I am delivering on their expectations. That consistency in income is worth far more to me that any "bestseller" label.
I for one definitely would. What about you guys?