Georgette Heyer Fans discussion
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Sylvester Group Read April 2017 Spoilers thread
As a British woman, I don't personally find American accents particularly "glamorous", although I agree that actors like Richard Gere and Harrison Ford definitely had a certain charm. In fact, I have met loads of charming Americans but for me their charm does not lie in their accents - whereas if I hear an Italian or French accent - that definitely has an in-built frisson for me.
Susan in Perthshire wrote: "As a British woman, I don't personally find American accents particularly "glamorous", although I agree that actors like Richard Gere and Harrison Ford definitely had a certain charm. In fact, I ha..."i defnitely find american accents sexier than italian or french - italians and frenchmen are too full of themselves. italians all think they're god's gift to women.
Louise wrote: "i defnitely find american accents sexier than italian or french - italians and frenchmen are too full of themselves. italians all think they're god's gift to women. "The stereotyping of nationalies is the sort of thing Sir Nugent would do, oblivious to his own self-deception ...
Rosina - I totally agree with you.
Is Sylvester quite unique in Heyer's work in that the hero really does have to do some soul-searching and make changes in order to get the girl he loves?I'm trying to remember if any other hero gets quite so harshly criticised? The only ones that spring to my mind are the Beaumaris-types, who are always effortlessly in control, or the Freddy-types, who don't need a set-down.
Charles Rivenhall, in The Grand Spohy mends his manners and gains a sense of humour, but he doesn't get his nose rubbed in his faults quite so badly.
I'm thinking specifically of the scene where Sylvester comes home, breaks down in tears, confesses to his mother that he's made a mull of it, and is described as looking as traumatised as he did when his brother died! My heart broke for the poor man!
Rosina wrote: The stereotyping of nationalies is the sort of thing Sir Nugent would do, oblivious to his own self-deception ... Just so. Let's keep it civil on here to all nationalities please.
Nick wrote: Is Sylvester quite unique in Heyer's work in that the hero really does have to do some soul-searching and make changes in order to get the girl he loves?
The only other hero that comes to mind to me is Sherry in Friday's Child. (view spoiler)
I'm going to have to put that one on my re-read list, I can barely remember it at all!
Rosina wrote: "Louise wrote: "i defnitely find american accents sexier than italian or french - italians and frenchmen are too full of themselves. italians all think they're god's gift to women. "The stereotypi..."
based on my experience of italian men when on holiday in Italy, that's how they come across.
Susan in NC wrote: "Louise wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "Probably a good thing, can't have women all swoony all the time! My dear departed mother used to say she'd pay money just to hear Sean Connery read the phone dire..."And there's the line the line from My Fair Lady, where Higgins is lamenting the death of the English language: "There are even places where English completely disappears. Why, in America they haven't used it in years!"
Karlyne wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "Louise wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "Probably a good thing, can't have women all swoony all the time! My dear departed mother used to say she'd pay money just to hear Sean Connery..."the American and English versions of English have drifted apart somewhat, but in some cases it is the English of England that has changed - for instance, the word 'herb' which used to be pronounced without the 'h' sound - the h is pronounced in England but not in America.
Nick wrote: "Is Sylvester quite unique in Heyer's work in that the hero really does have to do some soul-searching and make changes in order to get the girl he loves?I'm trying to remember if any other hero g..."
I can't remember any, either, who need to take hard looks at their own characters. In Venetia, for example, Damerel was more than aware of his faults!
Yes, you're so right Karlyne!IIRC, Damerel's terrible fault was (view spoiler) Aww, that was a fun one.
Nick wrote: "Yes, you're so right Karlyne!IIRC, Damerel's terrible fault was [spoilers removed] Aww, that was a fun one."
It was! I just plain like Venetia herself and the way she knows what she needs. Talk about self-aware!
Louise wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "Louise wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "Probably a good thing, can't have women all swoony all the time! My dear departed mother used to say she'd pay money just to hear Sean Connery..."I agree - and I don't know younger actors either, you picked some winners!
Susan in Perthshire wrote: "As a British woman, I don't personally find American accents particularly "glamorous", although I agree that actors like Richard Gere and Harrison Ford definitely had a certain charm. In fact, I ha..."Me too! For some reason the movie A Fish called Wanda just popped into my head - remember Jamie Lee Curtis' reaction to John Cleese speaking foreign languages? And even Kevin Kline speaking fake Italian - very badly?!
Louise wrote: "Susan in Perthshire wrote: "As a British woman, I don't personally find American accents particularly "glamorous", although I agree that actors like Richard Gere and Harrison Ford definitely had a ..."LOL!
Nick wrote: "Is Sylvester quite unique in Heyer's work in that the hero really does have to do some soul-searching and make changes in order to get the girl he loves?I'm trying to remember if any other hero g..."
I was so touched by that scene, for Sylvester and the Dowager, since she hates seeing that look on his face and never wanted to see it again after his brother's death. And I don't have the encyclopedic plot memory many of you have, but this did strike me as a particularly harsh comeuppance for Sylvester, unique among Heyer's heroes.
Louise wrote: "Rosina wrote: "Louise wrote: "i defnitely find american accents sexier than italian or french - italians and frenchmen are too full of themselves. italians all think they're god's gift to women. "..."
Do they really pinch your bottom or is that just an urban myth?! I've never been to Italy but have heard that for years!
Karlyne wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "Louise wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "Probably a good thing, can't have women all swoony all the time! My dear departed mother used to say she'd pay money just to hear Sean Connery..."LOL! Fair enough...
Susan in NC wrote: "Do they really pinch your bottom or is that just an urban myth?! I've never been to Italy but have heard that for years! .."A friend of mine married an Italian (he's lovely and he's genuinely called Fabio, I kid you not!). At her wedding, one of the Italian men literally chased one of the bridesmaids around the reception like something from a Benny Hill sketch. The poor bridesmaid was English and had no idea how to deal with that behaviour! Eventually my other friend's husband (French) tackled him to put an end to it!
Nick wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "Do they really pinch your bottom or is that just an urban myth?! I've never been to Italy but have heard that for years! .."A friend of mine married an Italian (he's lovely an..."
Nick, that's just so funny! I can just imagine the poor girl thinking she didn't want to cause a scene at a wedding- of all places- and feeling completely panicked!
Well, they certainly pinched bottoms in the past. I remember stalling my rental car on a hill in Florence once during rush hour. I was trying to push it over to the side of the road, and a man came up offering to “help” me. His idea of helping was to grasp my bottom firmly and push me! [I let the car slide back and hit him—not hard, but hard enough that he scuttled away and left me alone.]
Amy wrote: "Nick wrote: Is Sylvester quite unique in Heyer's work in that the hero really does have to do some soul-searching and make changes in order to get the girl he loves?The only other hero that comes to mind to me is Sherry in Friday's Child...."
I agree. Sherry was put through the wringer and had to practically do a 180 in his approach to life. Not only did he have to deal with (view spoiler) I think he might have had a worse time than Sylvester!
Nick wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "Do they really pinch your bottom or is that just an urban myth?! I've never been to Italy but have heard that for years! .."A friend of mine married an Italian (he's lovely an..."
Hah! Now I've got an ear worm going of the Benny Hill theme music...
Abigail wrote: "Well, they certainly pinched bottoms in the past. I remember stalling my rental car on a hill in Florence once during rush hour. I was trying to push it over to the side of the road, and a man came..."I love it! Go Abigail!
Cindy wrote: "Amy wrote: "Nick wrote: Is Sylvester quite unique in Heyer's work in that the hero really does have to do some soul-searching and make changes in order to get the girl he loves?The only other her..."
Yes, I had forgotten how much Sherry was put through the wringer - I think because I thought while reading it that he wad getting his just desserts!
Susan in NC wrote: "Louise wrote: "Rosina wrote: "Louise wrote: "i defnitely find american accents sexier than italian or french - italians and frenchmen are too full of themselves. italians all think they're god's gi..."Well, i went on holiday to Rome with a friend when were young, and although nobody pinched out bottoms that i can remember, we were pursued everywhere we went by men, they simply never left us alone, it was quite alarming, some i remember even drove their car up on the pavement to get at us. even the policemen were at it all the time, it was all too much. They come on way too strong for me.
Susan in NC wrote: "Cindy wrote: "Amy wrote: "Nick wrote: Is Sylvester quite unique in Heyer's work in that the hero really does have to do some soul-searching and make changes in order to get the girl he loves?The ..."
He definitely learned his lesson, and I think that since it was the hard way, he'll never forget it, either!
Louise wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "Louise wrote: "Rosina wrote: "Louise wrote: "i defnitely find american accents sexier than italian or french - italians and frenchmen are too full of themselves. italians all th..."Yikes, that would be frightening!
I also really like Phoebe. I think she's very well-drawn, and it's not often that you see that particular combination of shyness and courage depicted in a novel. Maybe I'm reading too much trash, but I find that often characters are either The Shy One or The Fiesty One, but in real life people do become more open when they're in a comfortable situation.Certainly, I can related to poor Phoebe when she says (paraphrasing): 'I'm so stupid when I'm in a big crowd!'
I’m with you, Nick, it’s the nuances in Heyer’s characters that make them so involving. The main characters at least always feel as if they’d grown organically out of their circumstances. Perhaps it’s because Heyer takes the time at the beginning of each novel to establish those circumstances pretty thoroughly, while more recent fiction tends to dump the readers right into the middle of the action and leave us to fend for ourselves!
I agree nick and Abigail. I was thinking about whether I find phoebe realistic or not but her personality is fleshed out by GH with many shades in between.- in two or three instances she finds courage or is angry and stands up to people even though she is a skinny slip of a girl - ie when muker stops her leaving to explore the wharf with Tom or how she shoots down sylvester arrogance.
- contrast that with how she shakes or gets upset when being told off by lady Marlow or is frightened by sylvester or hates a social situation
- how can someone so physically frail be such s good horsewoman?
- she is very caring and practical when looking after Edmund
- she is very witty with intimates in private - ie playing cards with Tom and sylvester she puts on all the voices from the various characters in her book.
Perhaps she grew up without a mother and without that love from a parent figure. It makes the scene all the more perfect at the end when mama duchess takes on that role and understands her on every level and she has a good cry and receives physical affection from her (stroking phoebes hair).
Abigail wrote: "I’m with you, Nick, it’s the nuances in Heyer’s characters that make them so involving. The main characters at least always feel as if they’d grown organically out of their circumstances. Perhaps i..."Ahh, that must be the reason I don't like more modern fiction! Very well said.
Belinda wrote: "I agree nick and Abigail. I was thinking about whether I find phoebe realistic or not but her personality is fleshed out by GH with many shades in between.- in two or three instances she finds cou..."
Yes! I think you summed up Phoebe's multi-layered personality beautifully - and seeing all of the varied traits in a list, I can see it seems contradictory but it's not; I think she is a sensitive yet strong introverted young woman stuck with an authoritarian, manipulative step-mother and a weak, selfish father.
With her imagination (her writing, ability to imitate people) she actually reminds me of my son in high school - physically always on the smaller side and shy, but with a wicked sense of humor and satirical pen (in writing and cartooning), he only shared that side with people he was close to, otherwise his natural reserve kept him to himself. Those who knew him since kindergarten were shocked and amazed when he went out on a limb and tried theater his senior year, singing, dancing, using his gift for mimicry and physical comedy to steal the show!
That's Phoebe- keeps to herself to protect herself from her nasty mama, but shares her humor and imagination with Batty, Tom and her sisters. When you're young, female and dependent on selfish parents, you have to keep a lot in; it was touching and quite telling how much she was loving being "free" at the inn, and how much she dreaded the thought of going home, until she was heartbroken and humiliated over her book. (Luckily my son had parents who adored him supported him!)
Belinda wrote: "I agree nick and Abigail. I was thinking about whether I find phoebe realistic or not but her personality is fleshed out by GH with many shades in between.- in two or three instances she finds cou..."
I think Phoebe was thin and wiry but not frail. I have skinny girls in my family (wish I was one!) but they're strong, too. I picture her as being someone without an ounce of fat on her, and an inner toughness!
That was exactly the word I thought of for Phoebe -- "wiry" -- like Barnie Fife of The Andy Griffith Show! LOL
Susan your son sounds like an interesting person. I love it when they is more to someone than meets the eye -still waters run deep and all that. I think GH was a classic introvert herself.
Belinda wrote: "Susan your son sounds like an interesting person. I love it when they is more to someone than meets the eye -still waters run deep and all that. I think GH was a classic introvert herself."Thanks, he is very interesting - and so much like both me and his dad, which is fascinating to me, as we are such opposites! But it works...and my husband is very much a "still waters" kind of man, it drew me to him 33 years ago and he's still the most interesting person I know!
Chapter 5- I love that Sibby is so practical. She is strong minded and just gets on with it probably because she is more in touch with the real world - oh well, its unfortunate you disliked him but he can't be as bad as Count Ugolino. ITs a shame you painted him as a villain but there you are. She doesn't have as much sensibility as Phoebe and then rolls with the punches - well you can refuse him. Phoebe seems very sensitive to other peoples feelings and 'the mood' and can't stand being bullied by her stepmother and her weak father (via her stepmother).
- Its interesting that quite a few paragraphs are dedicated to exactly why Phoebe took him into dislike and explaining why. He is cooly civil as he has been taught to be and it would be beneath his personal code to be rude, however its his air of pride she objects to. Initially it was slanted eyebrows that made her put him in her book but more importantly his 'crested air' which made her long to give him a set down. Then she expanded on the whole crested air part saying its so natural for him to have all that consequence that he doesn't give it a thought. He is 'so accustomed to flattery that he doesn't even heed it'. It seems as if she wants to puncture through all that and find the real him (she certainly will). I love the line "Being civil to poor little dabs of females who have neither beauty nor conversation is one of the tiresome duties his exalted situation obliges him to perform'. IN other words, she knows exactly that he has not clocked the real her at all. We know Phoebe has plenty of conversation, intelligence and wit and we know exactly what Sylvester is misjudging by overlooking her.
- I really enjoy the set up/description of the Squire and consequently also Tom (who seems to be his twin - certainly a chip off the old block). GH displays her incredible period knowledge and how steeped she was in concrete facts that make it all the more interesting. The Squire lives off 8,000 pounds a year and was relieved when Tom didn't want to go up to Oxford as in order for Tom to present a creditable appearance' as a sportsman would have cost him 600 pound and he would have to reduce his stables and his cocks.
- How funny the Squire has 7 outdoor servants versus only 3 indoor ones - just shows you how sporting mad he is with a groom, coachman, gamekeeper, kennel man a cocker and a huntsman. You know where his priorities lie! He has balanced his income from farming and tenants with exactly the maximum amount of outdoor pursuits he can however he is forgiven for all this sporting excesses as he is a man of 'excellent plain sense' he does not 'stint his lady the elegance of life' is well liked in the neighbourhood generally (as is Tom which shows they have good character) and also doesn't let his tenants houses fall into disrepair. Therefore he is not spending money on horses to the detriment of his income sources. You would imagine the squire is more hands on with estate management whereas higher peers hire managers? Perhaps the squire has a manager but he seems very hands on as well.
- I notice the GH made a real point through the character of Phoebe to talk a lot in 'horse terms' as her frame of reference - i.e. Sylvester must ride at 12 stone but that was countervailed by the fact her father was that heavy and it made for good hunting over heavy country. Her sisters think Phoebe will be impressed he took the turn into their driveway road really well and is a good whip (although she already knew that from her time in London).Throughout the rest of the book there is that effort that Phoebe sees most things in horse terms and gets very close to Keighly and bonds with edmund via discussing his pony. Sylvester becomes much closer to her in London when he gives her a beautiful horse to ride and understands her need to gallop.
- Tom is a pleasant youth with a fresh, open countenance and unaffected manners. The relationship with his father seems lovely as we are told of his fathers secret pride in how well he is learning to manage the estates despite not being bookish. He is an only child and became close to Phoebe particularly given she is a 'devil to go' and is up for all dangerous pursuits. Even his first terms at Rugby school had not led him to despise her company. You get the opinion as well before you even meet Mrs Orde that she is also a good egg as Phoebe says 'she has always been kind' and Tom vouches for the Squire, him and his mother to back her up. You feel they are her adopted family in some ways.
- Another great line when she says when she is in the black books with her stepmother it makes her so miserable she can't even write!
- Phoebe is described as so physically intrepid yet has so much sensibility.
- Lets look at the greek classical connections of the name 'Phoebe' (GH must have studied the classics with her father I'm guessing); there are ties with the Delphic oracle. She can be seen as the Titan goddess of prophecy and oracular intellect. Interesting - was she prophetic in stating what Edmund's fate would be and showing Sylvester's true character? Perhaps Phoebe is a good name for an author and she certainly shows plenty of character insight. For instance , she sums up her father ' Papa is always ruled by Mama so he is not uncomfortable'.
- Back to Tom - you can tell he only read Phoebe's book because she wrote it and he is not a big reader at all. Its funny when he said 'only girls' would read her novel. I think that is insightful who someone who spends all day outside in sporting pursuits. Who has time to read rubbishing novels when you come back exhausted from a day of hunting or fishing? Tom and the squire also seem to be people whom would put on too many airs and graces - they are too practical for that. How silly Lady Marlow banished Tom from hanging out with Phoebe. Cant they tell the relationship is one of brother and sister. Although Tom says he wouldn't like to be married to a 'high flyer', I bet some pretty girl will turn his head someday and as long as she is relatively well bred, practical, loves the countryside - he will be very happy.
- Phoebe thinks Sylvester will be 'punished' for visiting them via boring partners for whist, early dinners that start at 6pm and her tedious pianoforte recitals.
Again GH showing lack of physical affection - all Phoebe does is 'rub her cheek' on Tom's shoulder to show she is grateful.
- WE start to think Sylvester might be alright as his retinue when he turns up isn't as huge as her father.
- OF course the horses are talked about - splendid match bays that Sylvester has.
- I think Lady Marlow is set up as wonderfully pompous and dictatorial. Just as Lord Marlow is set up as spectucularly weak and silly. Not quite as detestable and weak as Hester Theale's relatives in sprig muslin but certainly up there in top ten ridiculous persons in GH's novels.
Lady Marlow dictates there should be no fires, she has very fixed views on what debutantes should wear and therefore arrays Phoebe in unflattering whites and pastels that doesn't suit her brown colouring. She congratulates herself on her arrangements and speaks to Sylvester with condescension which gives him a bit of a shock.
- WE go into Sylvester's internal monologue and see he is miffed because he feels he has been jockeyed into a corner and for someone who likes untrammelled freedom - it puts his back up. He takes a dislike to everything in the house - to formal, no fires, understaffed, no doubt a female presiding over the kitchen (classic sexism!) an no groom of chambers. The narrator points out that if he likes someone though, he is much more easily pleased - as with his cousin Georgie (yet another classic nickname). I wonder if Prince william and prince harry go around with ridiculous nick names for all their mates or whether that is an english private school trait?
- Sylvester immediately writes off Phoebe as insipid but a few of her remarks with bite rouse his interest. He can see Lady Marlow is bullying her and feels sorry for her despite the foul mood he is in.
- The three way conversation is a classic - Lady Marlow utters unanswerable pronouncements whereas Lord Marlow chimes in with force joviality, silly reminescences etc.
- Phoebe gets angry on her father's behalf (she obviously still has some love for him somewhere) as he is a much older man trying his best to please a younger, richer man that he doesn't have too much in common with.
- The portrayal of her father Lord Marlow during PHoebe's conversation with him is a masterful potrayal of someone who has a weak character. AT first he is annoyed that he has been put out then he whips himself into a false rage and when he sees Phoebe's weak point (telling her 'Mama') he plays on that mercilessly. Phoebe knows she will get no support from that quarter and with the snow closing in she clings to her meeting with Tom as her only lifeline. IN general she is compliant but she can sometimes have a strange 'obstinate' streak (as her stepmother is aware of) so there is some hidden steel in Phoebe.
- What a long chapter this was! I can see why GH's original draft ran long and she had to cut back. Apparently she regretted the cut backs. How I would love to know what the original draft was! I wonder if anyone possesses the edits?
A very masterful analysis Belinda!I'm a big reader of romance.
Sylvester's care in understanding/selecting the right horse from his own stable for Phoebe to use while in London (he understands what a hardship it is for Phoebe to not have access to a good horse during her stay in London) is the second most romantic gesture from a lover to the beloved I've ever seen in any romance novel that I have read.
Hi Andrea. Out of interest - what is the first most romantic guesture you have seen and was it in a GH novel?
I often think of Georgetter Heyer as being not particularly romantic, in a very English way. In Austen, the dangers and pitfalls of a bad match are often more the point than the love story! (On the other hand of course, there are the Brontes who are wildly passionate, so maybe I'm just cherrypicking!).Anyway, you made me think about it Belinda when you said: 'Again GH showing lack of physical affection - all Phoebe does is 'rub her cheek' on Tom's shoulder to show she is grateful.'
You're so right! Heyer doesn't do much physical affection, does she? And I think this extends to the romances as well, there's not much sexual (as in physical) attraction. And there's hardly any 'feeling giddy, butterflies in the stomach, can't stop thinking about them' type love stories. Sometimes Heyer novels even feel cold to me: like Lady Of Quality when Annis was almost doing a cost/benefit analysis of getting married.
Andrea, your point about providing a good horse being romantic is spot on for Heyer! Being thoughtful, being reliable, having a good character are much more likely to win a Heyer heroine's heart than true love, love at first sight, grand gestures or a hot body.
It occurs to me that the most reliable indication in a Heyer novel that a romance has blossomed is when the heroine and hero either share a private joke (usually by glancing at each other and just knowing that they're both laughing at the same thing) or when the hero has gone away and the heroine is suddenly pining for someone who gets her sense of humour (like Phoebe does when she's trying to make grandmama laugh at her father's silliness and grandmama does not get it!).
Hi Nick. I totally agree. The sad fact is that apparently GH wasn't very physical herself and her husband Ronald apparently had a mistress in later life. GH like one of the upper bred ladies in her novels 'looked the other way' and had more of an intellectual/emotional bonding with Ronald than a physical one. She apparently even joked about his mistress! Maybe she was very ill at the time - I can't remember the exact context. My husband better not get any ideas because I would certainly not tolerate that one bit! GH was a fan of practical guestures to show your love and all about companionship rather than wild sexual adventures. She was not of the background (edwardian upper middle class) to be into that and she was well before the sexual revolution or such things as the pill so she was a bit prim in her views. Still I think that makes her writing even more enjoyable as you have to make two characters come together without descent into gross physical acts alone (which doesn't make exciting reading in my book).
Susan in NC wrote: "Belinda wrote: "Susan your son sounds like an interesting person. I love it when they is more to someone than meets the eye -still waters run deep and all that. I think GH was a classic introvert h..."i personally think you have hit the nail on the head! My husband and I been together for 40 odd years and married for 37 of them and I still find him the most interesting person I know as well. I like 'still waters'!!
Nick You are right about "private jokes" as an indication that live has blossomed in GH romance.
At some point, after Phoebe has made it to London, her father writes he a thunderous scold, not about running away or of concern for her safety, but blows his stack because he doesn't know where Phoebe put the key to unlock the horse medicines.
I remember that Phoebe thought of Sylvester and how this funny correspondence would amuse him.
Belinda,The other romantic gesture was not a GH novel.
Susan in NC wrote: "Belinda wrote: "I agree nick and Abigail. I was thinking about whether I find phoebe realistic or not but her personality is fleshed out by GH with many shades in between.- in two or three instanc..."
That's a wonderful insight into Phoebe's character that you have gleaned from the experiences of your son Susan. I think it's so true that character and personality are rarely black to white. It's the multitude of tonal qualities that make a person more than a one-dimensional sketch and GH certainly fleshes out her character so they become living, breathing people that we can empathise with.
Belinda wrote: "Hi Nick. I totally agree. The sad fact is that apparently GH wasn't very physical herself and her husband Ronald apparently had a mistress in later life. GH like one of the upper bred ladies in her..."Your comments illustrate a very detailed analysis of GH's books and make very interesting points; but I'm not sure that it's entirely accurate to make such a sweeping generalisation about GH's physicality or her relationship with Ronald. There is a comment in JK's biography which suggests that the couple may have had sexual problems but absolutely nothing to suggest the cause. Their marriage is certainly described as being a wonderful partnership. Ronald may or may not have had a mistress (even JK stops short of making a definitive judgement on that); but that same comment also says if it were true, it was done with the greatest discretion. Whilst it may be true that GH did not place too much importance on sex, it is also true that she was of that generation of women who would no more have thought about talking about their sex lives than flying!! Few books of that genre, at that time, dwelled on the details of sexual intimacy and I think GH was no different to many of her contemporary writers in that respect. For me, her ability to dissect the minutiae of interpersonal relationships in the way she does in all her books, demonstrates a deep understanding of what makes for a successful relationship - on her terms.
Susan in Perthshire wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "Belinda wrote: "Susan your son sounds like an interesting person. I love it when they is more to someone than meets the eye -still waters run deep and all that. I think GH was a..."Thank you Susan, I love the way Heyer portrays characters so insightfully - and timelessly. I see people I know in her characters- like my son and husband! I too adore still waters and a loving port in any storm...*sigh*! And he makes me laugh, checks all the boxes for me!
And I agree with you and Nick and Belinda on the lack of heaving bosoms and general sexy goings-on in Heyer's books; she portrays attraction and companionability (is that even a world?) much more subtly with shared humor in a glance or quiet aside. Reading Nick's comment above about the surest indication of a romance in the offing being shared humor, I suddenly envisioned so many of the characters moving through the highly choreographed social scene wrapped in plastic, like human silos! They move about, make the right comments, dance, visit, ride,etc., and if they are very lucky they somehow, accidentally almost, miraculously, make actual eye contact and really see into another person's heart and mind - and realize they don't have to live inside their lonely silo anymore! They can have a companion, friend, fellow parent, land owner, and yes, lover, but someone to share the burdens and joys of everyday life, that's the real prize. That's what I saw I Civil Contract, and that's what I see here - Sylvester and Phoebe, like Jenny and Adam, have been through the wringer, and here is a person to make a home with. I think that's what Heyer gives us, and a precious gift it is! Anyone can write a hot love scene...
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i think American accents can seem glamorous to English women, especially when it's some dashing hero of the silver screen. Harrison Ford for example, or Richard Gere, or Robert redford (I'm not very knowledgeable about the younger ones).