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Lance
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Mar 31, 2017 07:02PM
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To me, Ball Four is the greatest sports book written because it captures the essence of what it was like in the locker room, on the field, on the road and in the hotels. As readers, we got to see what players did to combat boredom and how they dealt with injuries or being traded. It was frank, funny, and as a kid, I read that book from cover to cover several times. I learned a lot about contract negotiations, and how players were held by a string by the owners. I loved Bouton's descriptions of his teammates and foes. It was just an honest look at baseball that I'd never read before. While it was controversial then, it doesn't look so bad now.
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I agree with everything Bob said except that I'm not ready to proclaim it the greatest ever because that is a big title and I would have to sit and think a long time about it.
The undeniable title it holds is that it was the first of it's kind. Sure, it stood on the shoulders of the giants The Long Season and Instant Replay, but it took things a very large step forward. I can't think of any other book that was as surprising and controversial (and well-written) and has withstood the test of time.
Even though a lot of the things he wrote about are certainly dated now, or seem very tame compared to other highjinks later written about, it is just as enjoyable now as it was in 1970.
Like Bob, I learned a lot of things when I first read it. I was only 9, so contracts and player conditions were not even close to the top of the list at the time--I had an older brother who had to explain a lot of things and words to me (his copy had all the dirty words underlined and was hidden under a stack of comic books in his closet, lest our mother find it).
The undeniable title it holds is that it was the first of it's kind. Sure, it stood on the shoulders of the giants The Long Season and Instant Replay, but it took things a very large step forward. I can't think of any other book that was as surprising and controversial (and well-written) and has withstood the test of time.
Even though a lot of the things he wrote about are certainly dated now, or seem very tame compared to other highjinks later written about, it is just as enjoyable now as it was in 1970.
Like Bob, I learned a lot of things when I first read it. I was only 9, so contracts and player conditions were not even close to the top of the list at the time--I had an older brother who had to explain a lot of things and words to me (his copy had all the dirty words underlined and was hidden under a stack of comic books in his closet, lest our mother find it).
I'm going to post my review from last month because I feel good about how it captured my feelings about the book and Bouton himself. He had brass ones to write a book like this when it was so taboo. He took a lot of heat and essentially was banned from the Yankees until his son wrote a piece for a NY paper asking for forgiveness from the Yankees so Jim could play in an old timer's game. Despite the loss of his daughter, it meant a lot to him. he felt like he did as a rookie running out on the field. For me, it's one of my top 2-3. There wre also parts of his sequel that were hilarious. Does anyone remember the story of Doug Radar and how he got Jesus Alou to literally gag in the dugout?" This is the third time I've read the book. The last time was about twenty years ago. Has the great expose faded in its intensity and boldness through the years? Yes I think it has. Are the stories as funny as I had remembered? Yes, despite the immature locker room busting chops and pranks, I still laughed out loud numerous times. But remember most of those guys were still young men. The locker room reminded me of my fraternity house: the same kind of humor-just not as good. So, it's a bit politically incorrect and sexist. Can anyone really say they didn't love Animal House when they first saw it?
Prank example: A faux legal letter is sent to pitcher Fred Talbot promising a paternity suit is in the works. Talbot, rereading it three times, buries his head. Teammate Tommy Davis says, after the prank is revealed, "I didn't think you Caucasians could get any whiter". Ray Oyler follows with, "You couldn't have pulled a needle out of his ass with a tractor."
Prank example: Joe Pepitone goes to the team trainer complaining about his penis, after he had placed a piece of popcorn underneath his foreskin. The doctor says, "I have never seen a venereal disease like this before in my life."
Best oral line: The Seattle Pilots moved up batting practice to accommodate a nationally televised game. The new time was 10:30. Catcher Jim Pagliaroni quips, "I'm not even done throwing up at that hour!"
Best written line: On a form that players had to fill out for the publicity department, one question asked "what is the most difficult thing about playing major league baseball?". Mike Hegan writes, explaining to your wife why SHE has to get a penicillin shot for your kidney infection."
Best bit: Dick Stuart(strange glove), habitually late for meetings, shows up late and mimics a red carpet academy award announcer..... "He's wearing a Stanley Blacker jacket with Adolfo shoes...
Best duo bit: Mimicking what it was like for Mickey Mantle, always played in great pain, when he would be asked by a coach how his legs were and if he could play. "I'm fine, I'll just scotch tape my lower leg to my upper leg"...
But it's far from all laughs. This book told of the culture of baseball as it was before 1970. This was a time when players worked in the off season-had to. They squabbled over a $2-3000 raise-often losing to the dictatorial GM. It was a time of exploitation and Bouton makes it clear why the baseball owners and especially former Commissioner Bowie Kuhn hated the book. He had committed heresy, not so much for blabbing about inept coaches or the tell-all nature of the book, but by talking about salaries and the reserve clause. Remember this is the year Marvin Miller is just beginning to work for players. Free agency still didn't exist except in the minds of free thinkers.
Today's players get about $600,000 minimum salary and about $220,000 a year pension after 10 years of service. Bouton's year in 1969 was a transition year from the Dark Ages to what may have gone too far in the other direction. It was a time of relative simplicity. Wins were what counted for a pitcher to get a raise. It was a time when the expression, "throw the ball, see the ball, hit the ball" was in vogue. No advanced stats, no defensive shifts, just simply play ball. Yet still players, Bouton included, felt grateful that they were able to play the game in the majors even if they barely made ends meet.
There are some interesting points made too about racial differences, the counter-culture, and even the Vietnam War. I found it interesting that Bouton opined that players try not to get too close to one another because they may be demoted or traded and it hurts too much: much the same as rotating troops every 9 months so that men would not form too close a bond when they saw fellow soldiers get killed in action.
But what really got my attention was the prevalence of "greenies" in baseball as early as the late 60's. I had thought it was a 70's thing. Don Michner is quoted as saying the entire Oriole and Detroit teams were users as well as 50% of the Pilots.
There was some gossip too: Elston Howard was duplicitous as per Bouton, and Maris and Yaz often dogged it.
Bouton may have whined a bit in the book, but it's an honest memoir and Bouton let's us know that players care for their own personal achievements first and team next. He frankly discusses how a borderline pitcher like himself is often ambivalent about a competitor's success even if he is a teammate. He often rooted for the team but with the condition that his competition got shelled first and then the team rallied to win. It is a tight rope that Bouton had to carefully maneuver.
He captures how baseball "grabs you" with this memory. He is on a plane with turbulence going to Houston for his first start for that team. he thinks to himself, "gee if this plane goes down, I hope that the papers at least have me down as the probable starter."
This is a fascinating look into the life of a big leaguer of those times. Finances and freedom have changed, but I'll bet the pranks and busting chops are still just as prevalent.
Updates: For those of you fortunate to have the updated version, I must say that I was moved to tears several times by the chapter called "The Last thirty Years". In this chapter we get to know the maturing Jim Bouton; it embodies the aging process of its author in a most meaningful way. As Jim tries to come to grips with life after a short comeback in 1978, he must deal with the reality of "it's time hang up the spikes" and all that that means. The longing to play ball even in small towns, to hang on to the memories, the dreams of a baseball life still gnaw at him. He is 57 and he is aging and trying to live with the worst kind of pain-the loss of a beautiful, loving daughter just beginning her third decade of life. This chapter is so poignant and raw it's almost to difficult to bear. The letter from step-sister Hollis to her recently deceased sister is just one of several moments to grip the reader. Then there is the magnificent father's Day gift from son Michael, whose open letter published by the NY Times to the Yankees entreating them to invite his father to the Old Timer's Game, leads to one of Jim Bouton's most satisfying days, even if it is only a temporary hiatus from his suffering and debilitating loss. I have no doubt that even seventeen years later, the anxiety and the depression still remain, although one hopes only occasionally and that Jim and Paula are enjoying their lives and their grandchildren. Thank you so much for letting us into your heart with such a heart wrenching chapter."
I just started it, I have always been meaning to read it...so I am glad it is the selection for the month. I like his honesty so far. He is funny, and blunt. He doesn't seem to throw around the normal cliches...the Bull Durham lines "happy to be here"..."just want to help the ball club". Did he write any books after Ball Four?
Follow up book was I'm glad you didn't take it personally.
I will look for that one...thanks. Any idea what he is doing now? According to Baseball-Reference.com, he is 78 years old.
I think he's had some health problems lately.
Does he or has he ever granted any interviews? I am enjoying the book. It is very honest.
I enjoyed the followup book. I think he also wrote another book about trying to save an old ball park in Pittsboro, Massachussetts or something like that.
His wife from this book (who became his ex-wife in the '70s) teamed with another ex-ballplayer's ex-wife to write a book about being the wife of a baseball player. It was not written in a nice manner to say the least and there was a lot of bitterness about them running around like boys far into their 30s (as you can imagine from the lines about hiding bonus money from the wives and comments at the airport coming home from a long road trip like, "Here come the wives, act horny."
His wife from this book (who became his ex-wife in the '70s) teamed with another ex-ballplayer's ex-wife to write a book about being the wife of a baseball player. It was not written in a nice manner to say the least and there was a lot of bitterness about them running around like boys far into their 30s (as you can imagine from the lines about hiding bonus money from the wives and comments at the airport coming home from a long road trip like, "Here come the wives, act horny."
thers another book called I managed good but boy did they play bad that bouton was involved with.
Gerard wrote: "I will look for that one...thanks. Any idea what he is doing now? According to Baseball-Reference.com, he is 78 years old." He had a stroke but he looks great. I saw him on television within the last 6-7 months on MLB with Bob Costas. I noticed no residual effects, but he said he has some memory lapses. The sequel spends too much time discussing how little he made on the book after all of his expenses and fees-taxes, agents, traveling etc. But that book was written 23 years ago so I'm sure he still makes plenty on sales. But there are some funny stories in it. I referenced one before about Doug Rader, areal clown, making Jesus Alou gag in the dugout and vomit
Gerard wrote: "Does he or has he ever granted any interviews? I am enjoying the book. It is very honest." There is also a full length documentary about when Bouton played in an independent league in 69 or 70 in an effort to make a comeback. Bouton is a significant portion. It's on Netflix but I forget the name
That book was called "Foul Ball."Doug wrote: "I enjoyed the followup book. I think he also wrote another book about trying to save an old ball park in Pittsboro, Massachussetts or something like that.
His wife from this book (who became his ..."
Yes, Bouton edited that book, helped choose the managers and of course had chapters on all of his managers, including Joe Schultz of the Pilots. He also wrote intros to most of the chapters. It is an interesting book.Mike wrote: "thers another book called I managed good but boy did they play bad that bouton was involved with."
By the way, Bob. Glad to have you back. We missed you.
Thanks Doug. Was busy with school and then had a family tragedy that has kept me on the run the last two weeks. Talking baseball is always a soothing thing.
One thing we should perhaps pay tribute to, is the contribution of writer Leonard Shecter. Unlike Jim Brosnan, who wrote and edited The Long Season by himself, Bouton benefitted greatly from having experienced writer Shecter help him with Ball Four.
Shecter was known as a guy who loved to show that athletes were not the stuff of '40s and '50s idol-makers, but were selfish, egotistical hippocrits who hid their true image (just like the rest of us). Ball Four proved to be the perfect venue for him to show off his stuff.
In the prologue Shecter says the words and observations were all Bouton's but I think Shecter played a big role in shaping the stories and views to make them funny and informative but also to make Bouton very likeable. Regardless of your views, you find yourself liking Bouton and rooting for him to succeed. This is the mark of a great co-writer--just like Leo Durocher had for his book Nice Guys Finish Last.
I didn't know until recently that Shecter died in his 40s of leukemia or something only 4 or 5 years after Ball Four came out.
Shecter was known as a guy who loved to show that athletes were not the stuff of '40s and '50s idol-makers, but were selfish, egotistical hippocrits who hid their true image (just like the rest of us). Ball Four proved to be the perfect venue for him to show off his stuff.
In the prologue Shecter says the words and observations were all Bouton's but I think Shecter played a big role in shaping the stories and views to make them funny and informative but also to make Bouton very likeable. Regardless of your views, you find yourself liking Bouton and rooting for him to succeed. This is the mark of a great co-writer--just like Leo Durocher had for his book Nice Guys Finish Last.
I didn't know until recently that Shecter died in his 40s of leukemia or something only 4 or 5 years after Ball Four came out.
I've just started the book and am a bit intimidated by the size of it. But the history of it, the controversy, interests me.
Hey Barbara, it's been some years since I last read it but I remember it as being an easy read.
Barbara wrote: "I've just started the book and am a bit intimidated by the size of it. But the history of it, the controversy, interests me." Mike is right; it's a very easy read and I predict you will enjoy the added chapters concerning the aftermath of the book and Bouton's life.
Mike wrote: "Hey Barbara, it's been some years since I last read it but I remember it as being an easy read."Good to know. This month I have limited reading time due to work stuff.
Mod
Dick Young would call you a social leper lol. Sorry you didn't like it. Put it in context with its times, and it's a great book. It still holds up well.
Lance wrote: "This will probably make me a leper in this group, but I am about ready to mark this book as a DNF (did not finish) and move on. I see some of all the points everyone is making...it is funny in many..." The way you read, put in two more hours and finish it. It's very touching with the added chapters
I'm with Lance about DNF. I like Bouton, bought the book, enjoy his anecdotes and humor but I think the book could have cut in half. I am 1/4 done and will keep reading but it is a slow moving berg.
Fred wrote: "I'm with Lance about DNF. I like Bouton, bought the book, enjoy his anecdotes and humor but I think the book could have cut in half. I am 1/4 done and will keep reading but it is a slow moving berg."I think this will be a DNF for me too. It's a very busy month for me - end of the semester and academic year. It was free for my on kindle so nothing invested except maybe a half hour of reading.
I co-authored the John D'Acquisto memoir "Fastball John." I received a copy of "Ball Four" years ago and had issues finishing it, too. I was tempted to flip through it while editing "Fastball John" but I didn't touch it until our book went to print. It's a seminal work on my personal baseball book Mount Rushmore (along with Brosnan, Sparky Lyle & Joe Pepitone.) The additional chapter at the end where Bouton discusses Laurie is absolutely heartbreaking. I re-read it last September, I can understand how some folks find it hard to get through. I do think the added value of the work is as a document of the forgotten Seattle Pilots season.
Mod
You should just keep it available when your school year ends. While it wasn't my cup of tea, I am sure that many would be interested in your take.
And...while this won't change my rating or review, I did skip to the last chapter on Harold's recommendation and he and Dave are right - that is very good and heartbreaking - you can feel the emotions in that section. My thoughts above are on the original book and I will keep them as is, but yes, the additional material is worth the time to read.
Lance wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Fred wrote: "I'm with Lance about DNF. I like Bouton, bought the book, enjoy his anecdotes and humor but I think the book could have cut in half. I am 1/4 done and will keep reading..."Thanks - maybe I will be able to look at the end. This group is my first foray into reading about baseball and I love the opportunity to do so.
Barbara wrote: "Lance wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Fred wrote: "I'm with Lance about DNF. I like Bouton, bought the book, enjoy his anecdotes and humor but I think the book could have cut in half. I am 1/4 done and wil..." I recommend reading the aftermath; namely the chapters added after the original version. It's very personal and moving.
I'll have to admit I'm amazed at all the DNFs. As I stated earlier, I suspected that Ball Four has always been slightly overrated due to the fact that it was the first to break so much ground. I wouldn't put it on my very short list, but it is on my slightly-longer-than-very-short list.
Are the passages really that boring now? I enjoyed getting into the flow and spirit of the day-to-day failings and off-beat nonsense of the collection of has-beens and never-weres on a terrible doomed team that was thrown together in a dying stadium with a lousy owner.
I guess if you're busy and trying to meet a deadline it can get difficult and slow. Maybe just reading a bit at a time without any sort of schedule to finishing might make it better.
I agree with Dave that Sparky Lyle and Joe Pepitone's books were entertaining, and maybe more interesting than Ball Four, but the ground had been broken by Brosnan and Bouton and they just took it another step.
I enjoyed Lyle's book a little better. And Brina, Pepitone's book should not come anywhere near your kids until they are 21. As I've stated before, after reading Pepitone's book I felt like I needed not only a shower, but a penicillin shot.
Are the passages really that boring now? I enjoyed getting into the flow and spirit of the day-to-day failings and off-beat nonsense of the collection of has-beens and never-weres on a terrible doomed team that was thrown together in a dying stadium with a lousy owner.
I guess if you're busy and trying to meet a deadline it can get difficult and slow. Maybe just reading a bit at a time without any sort of schedule to finishing might make it better.
I agree with Dave that Sparky Lyle and Joe Pepitone's books were entertaining, and maybe more interesting than Ball Four, but the ground had been broken by Brosnan and Bouton and they just took it another step.
I enjoyed Lyle's book a little better. And Brina, Pepitone's book should not come anywhere near your kids until they are 21. As I've stated before, after reading Pepitone's book I felt like I needed not only a shower, but a penicillin shot.
I have to admit that it didn't stand up to the measure I had previously set for it decades ago. But it is still a classic and I agree with Doug. As for Sparky Lyle's book, I felt he was a whiny self-centered ass. I get that he was replaced by Goose after a great year, but still it got on my nerves.
Mod
And when I do try again, as I know myself well enough that I will - I will take Doug's advice to read it in bits.
Oh Gosh, yeah the Pepitone book is a "hard-R" read, but it's the fastest 272 pages of baseball book writing I've ever experienced. If you found BF tough to get through, Bill Freehan's "Behind the Mask," released the same year I believe as Bouton's book, IS written in diary form and is also something of a sluggish read.
Some of it is very boring. At times he is hilarious while some of the things he tells about ball players, coaches, and fans, I say thank you. I suspected they happened, he's just validated them. I keep reading a little a day and I most likely will get through it by the end of the month.
Dave wrote: "Oh Gosh, yeah the Pepitone book is a "hard-R" read, but it's the fastest 272 pages of baseball book writing I've ever experienced. If you found BF tough to get through, Bill Freehan's "Behind the M..."
I agree on Freehan's book, which is why it has largely been forgotten. But it is worthwhile to a baseball purist solely for the reason of reading about the self-destruction (and Tiger-destruction) of Denny McLain. You can't make that stuff up (no one would believe you).
I agree on Freehan's book, which is why it has largely been forgotten. But it is worthwhile to a baseball purist solely for the reason of reading about the self-destruction (and Tiger-destruction) of Denny McLain. You can't make that stuff up (no one would believe you).
I read Freehan's book some years ago and thought it was pretty good.
Hey guys, here's my review I posted on Goodreads. I have to admit, I changed my mind about the book the more I read."Ball Four" is the April Baseball Book Club selection, author is Jim Bouton.
Jim Bouton played professional baseball as a pitcher from 1962 to 1970. It's unheard of to have a pitcher play for that long, because of eventual and certain damage to a throwing arm. He played with and against some of the great players of the time: Mickey Mantle, Roger Maris, Elston Howard, Stan Musial, Whitey Ford and lots more. The reason he lasted so long in the game was because of his one great pitch, the knuckleball. The throwing motion for this pitch does not wreak havoc on your arm the way 100 mph fastballs, curves and sliders do. His book made him a legend among fans, but a pariah among some fellow players, coaches, team owners and last but not least, the commissioner of baseball, Bowie Kuhn.
Every day he wrote in a journal about what happened during games, in the locker room, on buses to the next game, at hotels, etc. He told stories about players partying habits and their nocturnal excursions. He wrote about salary negotiations and trades. Not being on the receiving end, I didn't see the harm. I thought the stories were hilarious.
Ball Four is written like a diary with some anecdotes and memories. The end of the book discusses his times and travels after playing. He was a sportscaster for example and entrepreneur. He met Ted Turner who gave him a come back shot at playing again in the Atlanta Braves organization, and he did well pitching in his late thirties. He also discusses the aftermath of the book and how players would not speak to him. I enjoyed this part of the book best. He tells too of his personal life, divorce and the tragic loss of his beautiful 31 yr. old daughter, Laurie.
Jim Bouton's "Ball Four" is one of the most widely read books on Baseball. Any sports fan would enjoy it.
I just finished reading Frick Baseball's Third Commissioner. This is a 271 page book by John P. Carvalho. Frick's reign over baseball lasted 14 years. He was widely seen as the anti Landis, a leader who wanted the owners to settle disagreements themselves instead of taking charge of them. Something I found interesting was around 1958 Frick was trying to find ways to speed up the game. I Felt the author covered everything Frick did for baseball from helping open the the hall of fame to screwing up The Maris home run Chase. There is a lot of interesting information in here for fans of baseball history. I'd give it a solid 3.
Mike wrote: "I just finished reading Frick Baseball's Third Commissioner. This is a 271 page book by John P. Carvalho. Frick's reign over baseball lasted 14 years. He was widely seen as the anti Landis, a leade..." I know your rating sytem-you are tough
I just finished “Ball Four” and posted my review. This was the first time reading “Ball Four”, and I knew what it was about and the controversy it brought about. And having read quite a few books that are written in a similar vein, showing the often humorous “background” of the game over the course of a season, this one felt like one of many. Granted, it was a ground-breaker, but Bouton’s formula has been copied so much that if you don’t know the book’s background, you wouldn’t appreciate it as much. I also enjoyed Bouton’s regular updates published as addendums to “Ball Four”. Interesting in how he reflected on his career and life, and his heartbreak and recognition in the end.
The most interesting thing I learned was about Bouton’s role in founding Big League Chew bubble gum. I never realized he was involved. Big League Chew was produced in a factory down the hill from my house in Naperville, Illinois for a few years, and I’ve read that the neighborhood smelled like bubblegum at times. I found a detailed “oral history” of Big League Chew that goes into more depth on the product and Bouton’s involvement here
Great choice of a book. Thanks for picking it.
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I liked the book too...your threes are my fours which is what I gave it.
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