The Time Ships by Stephen Baxter (April 2017)

[Joe]

Hey everyone. This is for discussion of April's group book:
The Time Ships by Stephen Baxter.
This won the 1996 Philip K. Dick award.

Unless it’s a very general comment make sure you use spoiler code.
< spoiler>Comment< /spoiler> Without the spaces.

This is the authorised sequel to The Time Machine by H.G. Wells. How well does it stack up to the SF Classic?

[Jon]

I've never read The Time Machine, or any of Wells' works come to think about it. Maybe I'll read it first before I pick up The Time Ships.

[Joe]

I have read The Time Machine but now you mention it I might reread it in the next few days.
It can be downloaded for free (legally) from the Project Gutenberg website. Here's the link for it if anyone needs it:
https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/35

[Jon]

I tried to download an Open Epub edition from the library but it wouldn't format correctly on my e-reader so I went and found a Kindle Edition for $0.99 that also contained The Invisible Man. It looks really short so I should have it finished by this week-end.

[Nick]

I just got my copy from the library and this is a massive brick of a book! It's going to keep me busy.

[Joe]

Book One - Dark Night

(view spoiler)[
I’m enjoying this already. The way this is continued on from Wells’ original was interesting to see. The Time Traveller is less annoying and less patronising this time around which I’m grateful for; that part of his character made it very difficult to read or have any empathy for so made it an overall harder book. Having a Morlock character is unexpected to say the least, though the reason for it Baxter does well.
(hide spoiler)]

[Joe]

Book Two - Paradox

(view spoiler)[
So this is a multiverse theory with a twist from what I understand of it so far. Endless realities can exist but rather than all of them existing and jumping between them; it’s more a case accidently creating them when the time machines move.
(hide spoiler)]

[Joe]

Book Three - The War With the Germans

(view spoiler)[
Alternative history in this section makes me think of Baxter’s Proxima and Ultima. They are both recent so I can’t help but think they’re an evolution of what he’s doing now in this. A whole series of “what if” questions being asked. I loved how Barnes Wallis was bought into it too; him mentioning how he once thought and briefly investigated bouncing bombs made me smile.
(hide spoiler)]

[Joe]

Book Four - The Palaeocene Sea

(view spoiler)[
I’m not surprised by the direction this has taken. Baxter is now exploring alternative evolution of humanity and it’s society. My main thought now is that the book as a whole is a vehicle for Baxter to explore different ideas in certain areas that only work if done in a very particular way, if that makes sense.
(hide spoiler)]

[Joe]

Book Five - White Earth

(view spoiler)[
There’s now nanite technology in the world. I expected this as a natural evolution of technology as it was progressing in previous chapters. I couldn’t help but think of the Replicators from Stargate SG-1 at first. The Time Traveler ended up getting copied and will now be remade in the next section.
(hide spoiler)]

[Jon]

Book One: Dark Night

(view spoiler)[ Really glad that I read The Time Machine first. It was a quick easy read and as a consequence I slipped right in to the beginning of this one. I read some of the Goodreads' reviews first and I have to laugh at the people who say that Baxter does a poor job of imitating Wells' writing style. In my opinion he does too good of a job. It seems a bit dated to me. I like the idea of the multi-level sphere that surrounds the sun. The size of that thing would make it almost incomprehensible when viewing from outside. Some cool ideas here and also quite a bit of social criticism. The Time Traveler likes to think of himself as an intelligent, thinking man and yet he repeatedly acts and reacts without any thought at all. (hide spoiler)]

[Jon]

Book Two: Paradox

(view spoiler)[So the Time Traveler figures out that history is changed when he travels through time. Why then, did he travel back in time with the Morlock to talk with his younger self? It has to be obvious (I think) that he would not be able to get back to his starting point after that. We'll see what happens. Is the Time Traveler a genius who can unravel time but can't deal with the practicalities of everyday life? He seemed to make numerous logic and thinking errors in this section. (hide spoiler)]

[Jon]

Book Three: The War With the Germans

(view spoiler)[This section contains my biggest problem with time travel stories. The setup here is a many worlds interpretation (I think). So Captain Hilary Bond should know that by traveling back in time to get the Time Traveler her history has been changed and she will be returning to a time that isn't her own. Each trip you take puts you on a new timeline. So why go in the first place?

Having said that I did like this section. Alternate histories can be fun and it was enjoyable to see things that we think of as historical through the eyes of someone who sees them as new and bright and shiny.

I also kept being reminded of a book that I want to read called Godel, Escher, Bach. (hide spoiler)]

[Jon]

Book Four: The Palaeocene Sea

(view spoiler)[This section had a little bit of a Robinson Crusoe feeling to it at the beginning. Good fun until the military showed up again. I would have liked to have seen how the colony figured out how to defeat the founder effect. That would be a tough nut to crack at their level of technology. I enjoyed watching the new civilization grow (in fast-forward) and shoot for the stars. A bunch of social criticism in this book, which I like.

Joe, I noticed that at the beginning of the comments you wrote that this won the Philip K Dick award, but in the "Why we're reading this" it says that it won the Clarke award. Just an FYI. :) (hide spoiler)]

[Joe]

Jon

(view spoiler)[
This may have been my favourite chapter due to the start and then, as you mentioned, the fast forward of civilization growth. They're seeing the world in jump cuts.

I'm not surprised I wrote the wrong award down at the top, considering the amount of times I keep writing the names down lately. Almost surprised I haven't done it more often.
(hide spoiler)]

[Jon]

Joe

(view spoiler)[It was my favorite section also. I went online and looked up all of the ancient creatures that they encountered so that I would have an accurate picture in my mind. It was quite fun.

I'm using the spreadsheet that you put together (thanks, it's great!) and most times when I go to enter information or look up books on the lists I trip myself up. Part of the problem for me is that I'm not familiar enough with the awards. I need to work up a cheat sheet of the specifics of each award so that I can easily separate them in my mind. Right now they kind of blur at the edges. That's the only reason I noticed in the first place, I'm trying to sort things in my mind. I can only imagine entering those lists in the spreadsheet. I'd have been second guessing myself every third or forth entry saying 'Wait, is that right?'. Hahaha. (hide spoiler)]

[Jon]

Book Five: White Earth

(view spoiler)[Joe, it's interesting how each timeline seems to advance further than the previous one, almost like an evolution of timelines. Wells' original timeline seemed to peak with the Morlocks and the Eloi. Then when the time Traveler went back for Weena there were Nebogipfel's Morlocks and here there are the Constructors. Even when the Time Traveler goes back in time he's moving up the ladder of universes/histories and in a sense is moving forward. The rest of the book fits with this but this section is where I started thinking about it.

This was probably my least favorite section. A lot of ideas about time and other things but not really much action. Seemed really slow. (hide spoiler)]

[Jon]

Book Six: The Time Ships

(view spoiler)[The conclusion that had really started to become clear in the previous section. Again some really cool concepts and dramas being played out, but not much in the way of action. Nice to finally meet a Watcher, but it seemed kind of ho-hum at the same time. (hide spoiler)]

Book Seven: Day 292,495,940 and Epilogue

(view spoiler)[I understand why the Time Traveler ended up here from the story standpoint. He ended up where he started and it completes the connection to the original novel. Having said that, I would have been more satisfied if he had gone back to the Palaeocene and worked to rebuild humanity.

A good book. Kinda slow in places but I'm glad I read it and the original. (hide spoiler)]