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IT Chapter 1 (2017)
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Dec 17, 2017 09:53AM
I still think that's a mistake (because after that he always says "father" and because if he's her stepf. King would've told us what his real father is doing or if he's dead or something, coz this is just the way King tells his stories) but I also think it doens't spoil my reading or my understanding of the entire novel, so peace ;)
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There is a possibility that he might be but it is very unlikely. Yes he could have adopted her and changed her last name but again unlikely that privilege was for male children and only younger male children at that.
Which proves my point on the naming. Edward and Dorsey Corcoran did not get a name change to Macklin. But Beverly's last name was Marsh just like her father. One thing you have to remember Pennywise manipulated people not just his victims but the whole of Derry was his playground and you could see it in the History of Derry.
Ah but here is the point Beverly may have had no say in it, but the legal system would. You can't arbitrarily change your Childs last name, unless you go through the courts which means on average that means it cost money and there are few who would change a girls name legally no matter the cost because they will have there name changed when they get married.
I never caught the "step" reference, but it makes no never mind ot me. Al Marsh raised her as his daughter, Bevvie viewed him as her father, so in this case, his actions should be looked at as if he IS her father. It's still disgusting and reprehensible regardless of her carrying his DNA.
The scene in the 2017 version is what I was referring to because I thought that's what we were discussing, but even in the book I found Al a horrid, horrid excuse for a parent. I don't think adding step to that makes it any less so. He agreed to parent her, so should act like a parent.
Finally was able to rent this through Redbox.Really enjoyed the movie Sometimes having kids in a cast can go either way for me but I thought they were all spot on in their roles. Bill Skarsgard, as Pennywise, was even more perfect. I wouldn't be surprised if I started having nightmares about him, he definitely scared me in the role. I am looking forward to the second chapter.
Kandice wrote: "The scene in the 2017 version is what I was referring to because I thought that's what we were discussing, but even in the book I found Al a horrid, horrid excuse for a parent. I don't think adding..."Hi Kandice I agree with you, but it is never that simple I am a step father and I brought up my daughter as if she were my own. She is she is the daughter of my heart. I treat her no different the I would any of my own because she is my own.
I know I am not making sense, but this is what I am trying to say. Accepting someone else's child as your own is difficult. It takes work that a lot of people are unwilling to do. It takes patients and love to spare to be accepted and it can be undone with one word or deed. But the first time they say I love you dad is so special it melts your heart and breaks it at the same time.
mrbooks wrote: "Kandice wrote: "The scene in the 2017 version is what I was referring to because I thought that's what we were discussing, but even in the book I found Al a horrid, horrid excuse for a parent. I do..."I think you misread my statement. I view Al as her father, because he raised her as such. I am completely agreeing with you. If you raise a child and then treat them in a way a child should not be treated, you can't blame it on them NOT being your child. It's ludicrous.
Kandice wrote: "mrbooks wrote: "Kandice wrote: "The scene in the 2017 version is what I was referring to because I thought that's what we were discussing, but even in the book I found Al a horrid, horrid excuse fo..."Al IS her father. He didn't adopt her. This misconception comes from a typo by King, because it's only once mentioned that he's not her father. All other instances say he is. Why don't we just put it to rest finally?
Miljan David wrote: "All other instances say he is. Why don't we just put it to rest finally?..."That's actually not what we were discussing. We were talking about the fact that it makes no difference if he is her biological father or her step-father. Either way he has raised her and his actions would be no less reprehensible if they didn't share blood. I don't think the typo, if that is indeed what it is, makes any difference at all.
For me it doesn’t matter whether Al was her biological father or not. The problem for me is that Al didn’t have a good parent relationship with his only daughter regardless of who here friends were during the summer. If they did have a good relationship then there would be no reason to be angry with Bev on HER choice not Al’s on who she is friends with. As a father I know my daughters friends both male and female so it doesn’t matter... so bottom line Al was a horrible father period!
Not arguing that point at all I happen to agree with you I knew all my children's friends well at least until they were in High school and still knew most of those friends as well. Al was a crap parent in my book and very little of that had to do with Pennywise and Derry.
The point is that all adults in Derry are crap.
I finished green mile mrbook and it was fantastic amazing too now reading under the dome
Good choice you will like it, there is also the cell and dream catcher and everything eventual. there are so dam many good books of his to read. Misery is another good one. Rose Madder was great as well.
Although what you say is true, you also need to take into account the feelings of those involved. For example My oldest daughter is not my biological daughter but she calls me father or dad. I have always considered her My daughter and treated her as if she was mine, because she is the daughter of my heart. Biologically and physically speaking I am not the father, emotionally I am, who is to say one is more important then the other. "Any man can sire a child but it takes someone special to be a father, someone who cares and guides with love. Someone who will put the needs of the child before there own needs. " Not my quote but it fits so well here and it is true.
You don't have to be a father biologically. You can become a father by caring for the child in your care.
Ben are you saying that you have to be a biological parent to be called a father... please explain
Ben you defined a biological parent and not a father as the two are separate entities period.
Ben wrote: "No you cannot.The word "Father" is out of the equation and the word "Guardian" takes its place."
I understand those are your feelings and beliefs, but many of us feel that if you choose to "father" a child (care fro and be responsible for as if you were their biological father) then your actions should be judged as if you were. Child molestation is disgusting, but molesting (or harboring thoughts of) a child you have "fathered" in any way, biologically or by choice, is even MORE disgusting and not sharing DNA does not excuse it or make the action less reprehensible, but more so.
Ben At this point we need to terminate this discussion since this blog is about Stephen King and his writing & not your backwards beliefs on parenting. Just because someone created a child doesn’t make him a father which is much deeper but according to you that is the only definition of father.
Erin wrote: "Finally was able to rent this through Redbox.Really enjoyed the movie Sometimes having kids in a cast can go either way for me but I thought they were all spot on in their roles. Bill Skarsgard, ..."
Totally agree Erin. The acting was far superior to the deeply disappointing mini series. The kids in 2017 were amazing. All fantastic in their own different ways.
Bill was simply outstanding and you could tell he had read the novel from back to front and constantly had it on set with him. Something Mr Curry didn't.
Ben wrote: "I can agree with that completely.But that still doesn't make someone else their Father or Mother.
Caregiver, perhaps. But that's all. ..."
As a religious belief, do you think that Rachel and Leah were not the mothers of their first two sons? Only caretakers?
Well Ben lets put it this way, my daughter calls me father I am the one who brought her up and taught her right from wrong who walked her down the isle when she got married. By your terms biologically I am not her father, by the terms of the heart hers and mine, I am. More often then not the heart speaks louder then simple words can. I know which one hold sway with me.
I wholeheartedly agree with you mr. books.
Ben, I understand your position on this please understand mine I could careless how others feel about the definition of the word.I am expressing my feelings on this I am a father and as you put it a step father, No I treat my children all of them the same. I love each and every one of them the same no matter what. It is not a difficult thing to grasp. I do not differentiate between them when I introduce my daughter I don't say this is my daughter and this is my step daughter. These are my daughters, My daughter does not introduce me as her step father but her father, I am the only man she knows and that is all that matters to her. o many people get stuck on the actual physical description of the word. I have read this in a book "you are the father of my heart" In reference to a man that raised her as a father should.
We are bound to disagree on this so lets finish this I will respect your opinion and hope you can respect mine. I don't intend any slight I just say things as I see them. Let not detract from others enjoyment of the discussion by getting side tracked on one point in the book.
Still friends? I hope so.
Ben like I said before this conversation that you keep bring up regarding parenting and being a father is obnoxious and has nothing to do with Stephen Kings books or movies so you need to discontinue this
Thank you Ben, I am going to sit down to watch the first half of the movie again soon I got it on blue ray for Christmas. Still not 100 percent on this but I will never be completely satisfied with any move about It, I am just a stubborn book head that can't see past cutting things out, to make the movie/series fit within a certain time frame. Sorry all but oh well will stil try to enjoy what I am watching.
Mod
1. Let's please bring this particular discussion back to the topic at hand, which would be the novel/tvshow/movie It. If we need a different topic on parenting or religion, we can make it.
2. Name calling and personal attacks will not be tolerated. We can disagree. We cannot attack based on those disagreements or anything else. Not in this forum, at least.
Further encroachments on this will be dealt with without warning (in effect, this is the warning).
That is all.
On a lighter note, has anyone else seen the news that they are working on getting Jessica Chastain to play adult Bev?http://ew.com/movies/2018/02/20/jessi...
I think this would bode well for the second half of the story.
Mod
I'll unlock it shortly so we can get back to the topic. Thanks, Nate and Lauren for attempting to do so.
Mod
I feel like pennywise watching and waiting...
Mod
I'm deleting posts going forward. In fact, if it keeps up I'm deleting people.
Well Chris you go right ahead and delete me but I will stand up for not bullying people into their beliefs.
Mod
You did that, and I really have no problem there. All I'm trying to do now is stop the argument, which has run its course and does not need to keep dragging out in this group/thread.
I concur we have all made our point time to move on if you can't move on, then it is time to move out. Lets be friendly and non confrontational as this is meant to be. You are all my friends I want to keep it that way.
I finally got to see the movie on Google Play. (I was sick with chicken pox when it came out in theaters.) I must say that I really liked it! I love all the child actors, especially Bev.I haven't read the book in a long time so I only remember bits of it. I remember Ben's poem (which I'm glad made an appearance) and I remember Ben's dam (which I'm disappointed that it didn't). I don't remember Bev (view spoiler)
As for the mini-series, I remember not liking it when I watched it in the past.
Femmy wrote: "I finally got to see the movie on Google Play. (I was sick with chicken pox when it came out in theaters.) I must say that I really liked it! I love all the child actors, especially Bev.I haven't..."
Wow... Bev? Didn't you think she was a little bit more grown-up than the rest of the gang?
The Just-About-Average Ms M wrote: "Nick said: "Wow... Bev? Didn't you think she was a little bit more grown-up than the rest of the gang?"Yes, Bev was a bit more mature, but at that age, between 10 and 12, girls are always more ma..."
Actually, now that you mention it, you're right... and they're often taller too.
Nick wrote: "The Just-About-Average Ms M wrote: "Nick said: "Wow... Bev? Didn't you think she was a little bit more grown-up than the rest of the gang?"Yes, Bev was a bit more mature, but at that age, between..."
Of course, what do I know, I went to an all-boys Catholic military grade school. My sister (a year younger than I was) never hit 5 feet. But she was definitely the toughest kid on the block. Once a neighborhood kid knocked me down, and before I could even get up again, she came out of nowhere and beat the crap out of him.
Nick wrote: "Wow... Bev? Didn't you think she was a little bit more grown-up than the rest of the gang?..."The movie ruined it for me by also making her a bit too sexually mature for a 12 year old. She practically had Mr. Keene wanting to leap over the counter.
Ben wrote: "Nick wrote: "Wow... Bev? Didn't you think she was a little bit more grown-up than the rest of the gang?..."The movie ruined it for me by also making her a bit too sexually mature for a 12 year ol..."
I don't think it was dramatically sexual at all. Flirtatious and playing to his vanity but not very sexual at all.
Yes Steve; you hit the nail on the head and when you think back to our teens. A lot of girls came across similar which there is nothing wrong with at all.
Nick wrote: "Wow... Bev? Didn't you think she was a little bit more grown-up than the rest of the gang?"Yes, it is a little strange that she's more mature than her age. But other than that, I think she did a phenomenal job.
Ben wrote: "The movie ruined it for me by also making her a bit too sexually mature for a 12 year old. She practically had Mr. Keene wanting to leap over the counter..."That’s...a really strange interpretation. I think that bit was designed to show how creepy Keene was, like so many of other adults who were affected by Pennywise and Derry’s evil. None of that was Bev’s fault. And especially when it was implied that her father was sexually interested in her, that’s...yeah, that interpretation feels a little gross to me.
Femmy wrote: "Nick wrote: "Wow... Bev? Didn't you think she was a little bit more grown-up than the rest of the gang?"Yes, it is a little strange that she's more mature than her age. But other than that, I thi..."
I think the reasoning behind Bev's more mature looks was really just good old Hollywood casting. They wanted to make her sexy so they cast a gal who looked somewhere between 15 and 20 for the part.
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