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How can North Korea ever be turned into a democratic nation? (And is North Korea a genuine threat to world peace? Or is it an exaggerated threat? POLL RESULT: 50% say exaggerated threat)
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James, Group Founder
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Mar 25, 2017 07:41AM
Wondering if North Korean people can ever overthrow their government? Either with, or without, outside help.
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don't think so, at least in near future.....government there has absolute control over media....foreign movies or books are not allowed there, even passports are also not issued unless it is a special case....plus military always watch the citizens.....so there is not much chance for a mass revolution right now...
Krishna wrote: "don't think so, at least in near future.....government there has absolute control over media....foreign movies or books are not allowed there, even passports are also not issued unless it is a spec..."I think you're probably right...
But I wonder what sort of Nth Korean resistance movement there is? Surely there must be some rebels...
They'd have to be very underground tho...
word-play association: Wonder if North Koreans join Underground Knowledge? :)
But seriously, there is a flip side to this argument.
I remember my grandfather telling me he never thought he'd live to see the day with the Berlin Wall came down and the Soviet Union collapsed.
Maybe every regime looks impossible to defeat, until it suddenly crumbles...usually from within.
Anyway, what are these North Korean leaders problems?!
Maybe they need cooler haircuts ;)
yes maybe u r right....but I guess mass revolution can only do something..... and for that plans can't be kept hidden from mass....
worst thing is that people of North Korea can only have limited haircuts only.... that also those not so cool ones...
worst thing is that people of North Korea can only have limited haircuts only.... that also those not so cool ones...
Krishna wrote: "worst thing is that people of North Korea can only have limited haircuts only.... that also those not so cool ones... ..."What, you're saying the SUPREME LEADER Kim Jong-Un doesn't have a cool haircut? :) http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/ee...
Is he the only moustache-less dictator? Has to compensate with the hairstyle I guess.
Harry wrote: "Is he the only moustache-less dictator? Has to compensate with the hairstyle I guess."No, Trump doesn't have a moustache :)))))
Other than that I think you're right.
Maggie Thatcher had a slight moustache I think...
Actually that's not a bad title for a book or film: The Moustache-Less Dictator
Trump's in disguise; hence no moustache."Maggie Thatcher had a slight moustache I think..." - haha! Yes! Theresa May too.
Every time I hear or especially read the name Theresa May, my brain immediately scrambles it into Mother Theresa.What this has to do with North Korea, I'm not sure.
If your Prime Minister really is a saint, she should help free the people of North Korea.
Hey, here's an idea: what if top hairdressers are sent undercover into North Korea? Could it be as simple as giving them good haircuts? Once they look cooler, they may start rebelling?
Whenever I read the name Theresa May, my brain immediately scrambles it into Mother Fucker.
Harry wrote: "Whenever I read the name Theresa May, my brain immediately scrambles it into Mother Fucker."Wow, you'd be killed in North Korea...or at least have your mouth washed out with soap!
This was something I didn't know:U.S. saturation bombing flattened 18 of North Korea's 22
cities, an unequaled level of destruction in modern wars.
http://www.internationalist.org/north...
James wrote: "Krishna wrote: "don't think so, at least in near future.....government there has absolute control over media....foreign movies or books are not allowed there, even passports are also not issued unl..."Several things that are in play. The KJU regime has the Chinese playbook and a much smaller playing field. They can keep up with everyone in the country with less people. The more loyalists, and jailing or killing the rebels, the more control they maintain.
Second, China is "big brother". KJU cannot work independently because they have virtually no infrastructure in place to support what they have. If you die of starvation, you die for the KJU cause. That is seen as how life is "supposed" to work.
Third, getting propaganda into (or information out of) RNK is riddled with failures because these people are not stupid. They lack training, but they are very smart. Unfortunately, one wrong mistake over there is a death sentence, so they've executed much of their higher intelligence for a lack of performance or fear that they might gain some kind of power.
Remember, this is a kid who has killed inner circle generals, family, and outsiders to keep his kingdom intact.
Democracy could not be sustained in their environment, any more than it could be sustained in Iraq. The people are still too indoctrinated to change to a new way of thinking. They would have to lose in a war, be occupied for a generation (20-30 years) and have mandatory programs for education of children, including retraining to this "western" way of thinking.
I'm sure there are probably several underground groups that would love to start a revolution! Unfortunately, they are an isolationist country. Most of the people living there starving or on the verge of starvation and brainwashed by the state controlled media! I'd you don't show that you are a devout believer of Jung Un'a policies and to Jung Un himself, you run the risk of being killed! As far as I know, they don't have an insurgency policy like the Nazi's have; but keep in mind, there were many stops on the way to Hitler! Unfortunately, it looks like the people of this country have boarded that same train with the "election" of Trump...a true despot at heart! I agree with what all of you are saying !
Rebecca wrote: "I'm sure there are probably several underground groups that would love to start a revolution! Unfortunately, they are an isolationist country. Most of the people living there starving or on the ver..."I wonder if there are any North Korean members on Goodreads, Rebecca?
If so, we could invite them to comment here and slowly (un)brainwash them with "underground knowledge" :)
Our motto could be: Changing North Korea, one Korean at a time!
I like that idea, unfortunately, I don't think forums that allow a free exchange of ideas are acceptable or accessible. Those who have figured out a way around it, probably fall into the "unbrainwashed" category anyway. But, who knows? I would love to chat up any willing North Koreans!
Rebecca wrote: "I like that idea, unfortunately, I don't think forums that allow a free exchange of ideas are acceptable or accessible. Those who have figured out a way around it, probably fall into the "unbrainwashed" category anyway. But, who knows? I would love to chat up any willing North Koreans!..."Ha!
Unless the eventual plan is to just invade North Korea and overthrow their govt...US warships divert from Australia to Korea https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/349...
Excerpt:
US warships, including the supercarrier USS Carl Vinson and several guided-missile destroyers, have been diverted from a planned visit to Australia to Korean waters to safeguard American interests from a "reckless, irresponsible and destabilising" North Korea.
Hope these minerals don't cause yet another military invasion...North Korea sitting on $7 trillion worth of minerals
Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/world/2017/07...
Its irrelevant question but let me ask: what religion do NK people follow? I read somewhere on internet that they kill the person or imprison him/her for keeping a bible.
The strictest communist regimes outlaw all religions, I think. Not just Christianity.
Prospects are not good. Kim could mellow. (Yeah, I know, I could become a bets selling author too.) However, I do not think the situation is as bad as some think. Dictators like Kim want to blow their egos to enormous bubbles, but they also want to survive. Hopefully, some sort of common sense will strike home.
There is an apocryphal story about Stalin which might help this conversation. As Stalin laid on his death bed the party elites were jockeying for position. Some of them asked Stalin to name his successor. Stalin had a cage full of songbirds brought into the room. Then he told the assembled wannabes that whomever could hold a live bird in the palm of their outstretched hand would be the next leader of Mother Russia.
Some of the wannabes gripped the birds too tightly and crushed the life out of them. Others just held the birds out, and cursed as the birds flew away. After trying for some time the wannabes turned to Stalin and said that what he proposed could not be done.
At this Stalin took a bird from the cage and methodically plucked every feather from the poor creature. Then, to the amazement of the wannabes, as Stalin held out his open hand, the bird began to sing. Stalin then told them that if you take away everything that the people have, then they will thank you for the warmth of your hand.
This is what the Kims have done to North Korea. All that those people have left is the warmth of the Kims' hands. If you take that from them they won't know what to do. Eventually another, probably weaker, dictator will seize power. But he won't last long, and North Korea will descend into a series of military coups and civil wars among proxies picked by outside powers.
Wow, what a horrible, yet insightful, story about Stalin.
James wrote: "Wow, what a horrible, yet insightful, story about Stalin."Has there ever been a heart warming story involving Stalin?
J. wrote: "Has there ever been a heart warming story involving Stalin?"None that I'm aware of.
The Russian people have suffered a lot.
I rather fancy the story of Stalin is fake news. Stalin lay on his death bed, either drunk, paralysed, or both, for quite some time, and all the elites were gathered around, wondering when/if Stalin would order their executions. Stalin was incapable of doing anything, which was fortunate for them.The most heartwarming times with Stalin was when he was in the room and did not execute someone.
Yeah, probably just a myth about Stalin's deathbed lesson...But somehow you can still imagine him doing something like that, don't you agree, Ian?!
Just before the end of WWII in the Pacific theater, the USSR invades Manchuria. This gave Stalin a place at the Asian table. He used it to support Chinese communists and to turn North Korea into a buffer state against western influence. Is anything that followed surprising?
Ian wrote: "I rather fancy the story of Stalin is fake news. Stalin lay on his death bed, either drunk, paralysed, or both, for quite some time, and all the elites were gathered around, wondering when/if Stali..."I said that it is an apocryphal story.
Yes, but as James said, it sort of fits in with Stalin :-)
We have a lively group poll currently in progress, which asks Undergrounders this:Is North Korea a genuine threat to world peace? Or is it an exaggerated threat?
Vote and have your say in the poll here: https://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/1...
The aforementioned group poll which asked Undergrounders the following question is now complete: Is North Korea a genuine threat to world peace? Or is it an exaggerated threat?Here are the results:
50% of voters said Exaggerated threat
31.4% voted Genuine threat
18.6% voted Not sure
Check out the lively comments that occurred during the voting period: https://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/1...
Lance wrote: "The aforementioned group poll which asked Undergrounders the following question is now complete: Is North Korea a genuine threat to world peace? Or is it an exaggerated threat?Here are the result:
50% of voters said Exaggerated threat
31.4% voted Genuine threat..."
Shame the Underground didn't exist before all the other stupid, unnecessary, deceitful post-WW2 wars (Vietnam, Iraq I, Iraq II, Afghanistan, Libya, the Cold War, etc, etc)...Not that this little group would've made any difference, but at least we'd have it on-the-record that we weren't fools who fell for the PR statements of the Military Industrial Complex.
South Korea 'Blackout Bombs' Can Take Down Pyongyang Without Firing a Shot https://www.yahoo.com/news/south-kore...
What do y'all think of this summit occurring in Singapore this week? Is Trump meeting North Korean leader a good thing? The beginning of genuine peace talks in Korea? Start of a reunification of North and South into one nation again, even??Hopefully it's not a meeting where Trump is taking notes on how to be a dictator!!
Also, thinking practically, wouldn't the best way to achieve peace and make the nation democratic be to assassinate the north Korean leader?! I mean, he seems to be the only thing preventing freedom for his people. So why not kill him but make it look like an accident like a slip in the hotel shower or food poisoning... Or maybe Trump could meet him late at night and challenge him to a friendly duel, but things go wrong... :)
Assassination by some external force would not work anyway. The people would just get worked up about foreign intervention and there will be queue of people prepared to take over.I doubt reunification is on Kim's agenda, and if the likes of Bolton even think of mentioning it, that may derail the talks. Kim's major issue is security, and reunification would only occur through the South taking over - too much like the Libyan model with dead Kims all over the place. That is hardly security, and security is the prime concern for the North.
I dunno, Ian... I still think the slogan KILL KIM has a ring to it!
Sure you're not thinking of Bill, james? Plagiarism!! :-)
Iain wrote: ""Why a Secretive Group of Western Investors Are Bullish on Business in North Korea"https://news.vice.com/article/argumen..."
Good find, Iain.
Probably. I always figured the whole thing was a bit of a game... A bit like how a growing number of analysts now view the Cold War...
It is interesting that everyone seems to think Kim wants major external investment. Why would he? Basically, if he accepts that, he loses control of the assets of the country, and his own future is in serious trouble. He might be more interested in following the early Chinese model outlined by Deng.
Iain wrote: "I don't think his 'wants' are anything to do with this outcome; more the situation became untenable and he has found himself like a mouse in between two very large cats . . . .Most of his sabre-rattling in the past was to black-mail and draw concessions, due to the economic shape of the country, rather than to propose an actual threat. ..."
At least Old Kim was a bigger threat than Grenada...And the U.S. invaded that nation decades ago...
Why did the US invade the island of Grenada? https://www.politico.com/story/2017/1...
Citing the threat posed to American nationals on the Caribbean nation of Grenada by that nation's pro-Marxist regime, on this day in 1983 President Ronald Reagan ordered U.S. forces to invade the island and to secure their safety. In little more than a week, Grenada's government was overthrown.
According to one compilation, between 1946 and 2000, the US either interfered in an election or overthrew a government (or tried to) over 80 times. Why? The most obvious common feature was the preservation of or support for US corporate interests, e.g. copper in Chile, oil in Iran, unused land owned by a corporation in Guatamala, etc. They also "fought communism". But with such a large number of interventions, it is difficult to answer a "why" question. Somewhere like Grenada had no show once they came under the spotlight. Larger places, like Viet Nam, ended up a disaster.
North Korean state TV gets another makeover https://abcnews.go.com/International/...The state-controlled network now features graphics and drone footage.
Korean Central Television, North Korea's state-owned broadcaster, continues to experiment with modern storytelling devices such as 3D graphics, time-lapse videos and aerial shots from helicams -- camera-equipped drones.
Watch "Trump invites Kim Jong Un to White House" on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCIAg...
The Ayatollahs should take note. Kim is continuing doing what Kim does and everyone is happy, with Trump getting his photo ops. The Ayatollahs are getting nowhere. Give Trump a photo op!
