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Mehreen
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Mar 16, 2017 03:30PM
"Let us go then, you and I, when the evening is spread out against the sky, like a patient etherized on a table" TS. Eliot. What do you think of the grammar of this sentence?
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Mehreen wrote: ""Let us go then, you and I, when the evening is spread out against the sky, like a patient etherized on a table" TS. Eliot. What do you think of the grammar of this sentence?"It's correct
Great! You're back!
Mehreen wrote: "Great! You're back!"Lol, yes :) Super busy!
Tara Woods Turner wrote: "Mehreen wrote: "Great! You're back!"Lol, yes :) Super busy!"
I'm sure you're.
Of course it is correct, but TS Elliot lived in a different time, and he was a poet. But analyzing what he wrote there, "is spread" is passive voice. Today this is frowned upon. Active voice is more in tune with today writing.
In my opinion, the passive voice is a useful tool, and I would be interested to see what anyone can come up with using the active voice only that improves on what TS Elliot wrote. I am not holding my breath.
It is beautiful as it is even though the grammar might be a bit off. So much for grammar.
As far as I am concerned, the grammar is fine. There is nothing wrong with the passive voice, where it is appropriate. It is like a builder with a hammer - every building problem is not a nail or something requiring a good belt.
Very good analogy. People have always debated about grammar of this sentence. But I find it lyrical. 'You and I'being the bone of contention.
Mehreen wrote: "Very good analogy. People have always debated about grammar of this sentence. But I find it lyrical. 'You and I'being the bone of contention."That's traditional for a poet. Me and sky don't rhyme.
Ian wrote: "Mehreen wrote: "Very good analogy. People have always debated about grammar of this sentence. But I find it lyrical. 'You and I'being the bone of contention."That's traditional for a poet. Me and..."
Yep, I and sky do which grammar lovers don't understand. Another thing they argue is 'us' and 'you and I'.
Ian wrote: "As far as I am concerned, the grammar is fine. There is nothing wrong with the passive voice, where it is appropriate. It is like a builder with a hammer - every building problem is not a nail or s..."There are times like this that I wish GR had a "Like" button. Passive voice is not ungrammatical. The current preference for active is just that: a preference.
Also, in this case I'd argue that "is spread" is actually not passive at all. Nothing spread the evening. The poet is expressing a state of being, not the object of a spreading action, just like saying "the sky is blue". I find the Passive Police often cry foul at any whiff of the word "was" without truly analyzing the grammar.
Ian wrote: "Ian wrote: "As far as I am concerned, the grammar is fine. There is nothing wrong with the passive voice, where it is appropriate. It is like a builder with a hammer - every building problem is not..."I agree. "The evening is spread out" how is this passive?
Ian makes a good point. I did not want to go down that path but if you think of it, "when the evening is spread out against the sky" does not make much sense as prose, but it is poetic. Analysing T S Elliot is a bit of a nightmare - he is a poet with meanings within meanings, allusions to quite unrelated things, and the exact wording often conveys meanings that are anything but obvious if you don't understand what he is on about.
Less analysis more simple enjoyment of the prose. We have the same problem with Shakespeare. Just let the words flow and enjoy the rhythm and whatever emotions the words cause.Be not afraid of greatness: some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them.
T S Elliot for one.
To thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man.
A lesson for all politicians
The course of true love never did run smooth.
A lesson for life
Philip wrote: "Less analysis more simple enjoyment of the prose. We have the same problem with Shakespeare. Just let the words flow and enjoy the rhythm and whatever emotions the words cause.Be not afraid of gr..."
I agree.
Ian wrote: "That's traditional for a poet. Me and sky don't rhyme."Mehreen wrote: "Yep, I and sky do which grammar lovers don't understand. Another thing they argue is 'us' and 'you and I'."
"Let us" is being used as an imperative phrase; "you and I" are the subjects of the sentence, so "I" is needed. The imperative phrase is actually a clever choice by Eliot; it allows him to play with the expected sentence structure, and allows him to emphasize the rhymes between "I", "sky", and "etherized."
Speaking of which, grammar lover or not, I'm sure everyone understands that "I" and "sky" rhyme.
Daniel J. wrote: "Ian wrote: "That's traditional for a poet. Me and sky don't rhyme."Mehreen wrote: "Yep, I and sky do which grammar lovers don't understand. Another thing they argue is 'us' and 'you and I'."
"Le..."
Yet they complain.
