March/April 2017 Group Read: The Bourne Identity

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

This is your space to talk about this month's book, The Bourne Identity. Cassia will the discussion leader, so have fun!!

[Cassia]

Hello,
I am honored to mediate this discussion.

When I was young I read a lot, and most of my suggestions for new readings came from the movies I watched. The books fill in the gaps of the stories shown in the movies.

"The Bourne Identity" I watched after a few years of marriage and there was no time for readings. This is my first spy book, I feel very comfortable because the movies are my favorite and now the spy books are in my reading priorities.

In a few days I will be writing about this book. I look forward to reading everyone's opinions. Thanks.

[M.L.]

I'm looking forward to reading it and it should arrive soon. I've never read anything by Ludlum but have seen several of the Bourne movies and enjoyed them.

[Devan]

Can't wait to read this!

[Suzy]

I love the movies and was hoping to read this, but I see it's 591 pages and I've just got too many other books on tap right now. I will follow the conversation, though, and look forward to seeing what people think.

[Angelina]

Was going to try it as I only know the films but sadly not at my library.

[Lauretta]

Read the book too. Couldnt resist watching the movie. The Bourne series always had my heart racing!

[Charissa]

The book is something. I will be ready to hear some of the conversation.

[Lance]

For all of you who like the films: you may be disappointed. (I was.) About the only thing the films share with the book is the title character and his general setup... and that's a good thing.

I think that overall, the films are much more entertaining than the original book. They rely less on omnipotent global cabals, inexplicable behavior, and coincidence; they take place in a world that, paranoid as it may be, seems more grounded in reality than Ludlum's. Then again, Ludlum made a mint off the world he built, so YMMV.

[M.L.]

That's a good point about movies being different from books! I recently read Patriot Games and in the book there are appearances of certain royals (view spoiler)[Prince William and Princess Diana, Queen Elizabeth (hide spoiler)]. Oh, fancy meeting them! :) But I loved both the book and the movie.

[Ron]

Read the book. Saw the movie. Looking at reading The Bourne Ultimatum next, having already read The Bourne Identity and The Bourne Supremacy. Not sure, yet, if I'll move on to the others since they're not Robert Ludlum books.

[Lauretta]

@Lance: Yeah, most times the movies are more entertaining than the books, but you've got to admit that the books let you 'get into the mind of the characters/ be privy to their thought patterns' I guess that is the major edge books have over movies.

[M.]

Movies often miss the mark, but I have a brain that splits nicely: Movie Bourne and Book Bourne. I enjoy then either way!

[M.]

Also, book should be easily available as a used book and the library will have. The librarian can also order from another if need be. Hugs all! BOURNE ON!!!

[Theona]

It's been years since I read this and completely enjoyed it. the books and movies are totally different. most notable in the later books /movies. but, you can enjoy it even if you've seen only the films, think of it like a whole new story or vice versus.

[Cora]

I'm about half way through the book. I liked the movies; they are typical Hollywood action flicks and entertaining. The books doesn't have the action/adventure formula, which makes movie and book worlds apart.

I have to say I'm enjoying the book. Jason seems much more like someone who has lost his memory. His muscle memory and reversion to killer instincts when he's in danger seem right on. Those things would be instinctual.

I think it's realistic that he makes a lot of mistakes because of his memory loss. He seems to have partly reverted to a more gentle pre-Bourne the killer personality, which I like. Sometimes Ludlum's writing seems clunky, and Jason's a bull in a china shop, but it's a fun read.

I also prefer Marie in the book to the female lead in the film. She's more mature and adds to the plot. Not sure if Ludlum intended for her to have Stockholm syndrome, but it works.

[M.L.]

I'm about page 150 and enjoying it so far. Maybe it will show up later, but I would like a good definite change in point of view, something in the way of The Fugitive playing off the good guys vs the good guys vs the bad guys. Or The Day of The Jackal, same thing, where you get different moving threads, different perspectives.

I was thinking about Stockholm Syndrome, too. He's kind of hammering home her reasons, so for me, well, I'm a little more skeptical about accepting them. :)

[Shannon]

read this few years ago i liked it alot. Its more better then the movie was

[Carol]

The movies are fun but forgettable. The first two books in the series are two of the best books I've read. The pages fly by, and I'm not by nature a fan of books that exceed 500 pages. If I recall correctly, I read this in three days and shooed away all would-be distractions.

[Rcheydn]

All the Bourne books are fun to read. As long as they are Ludlum books and not collaborations. The films are just as entertaining. www.rcheydn.co.uk

[Cora]

I finished a couple of days ago. I'll definitely read more Ludlum. I remember reading him years ago, but that memory is fuzzy.

I liked the movies. They are fun to watch if you're in the mood for action/adventure.

I prefer the book. It has more depth and character development. I like the PTSD aspect of Jason's personality, and his struggle to remember. In the back of my mind, I kept questioning his amnesia: how much could be attributed to his violent trauma and how much to his subconscious desire not to remember. Of course I could be imagining he has a subconscious anything.

I think I said this before, but I found Marie of the book much more compelling and believable than the female lead in the movie (not sure if they had the same name). I'm sure the film was trying to update the story to more contemporary characters. All in all a good and fun read.

[Cora]

Carol wrote: "The movies are fun but forgettable. The first two books in the series are two of the best books I've read. The pages fly by, and I'm not by nature a fan of books that exceed 500 pages. If I recall ..."

I use an e-reader, so not sure about the page length, but it was long. I wish I'd had the luxury of reading it in three days. As it was every night I was up later than I should have been reading.

[Carol]

Cora wrote: "Carol wrote: "The movies are fun but forgettable. The first two books in the series are two of the best books I've read. The pages fly by, and I'm not by nature a fan of books that exceed 500 pages..."

there was a lot of lost sleep involved in my read, too, Cora. :) As I recall, I didn't bring a lot of value to work the days afterward either.

[Cora]

Carol wrote: "Cora wrote: "Carol wrote: "The movies are fun but forgettable. The first two books in the series are two of the best books I've read. The pages fly by, and I'm not by nature a fan of books that exc..."

Carol, I know the feeling, but it's so worth it to get lost in a good book.

[M.L.]

I'm half way through and really enjoying it.

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

Where's our moderator? Cassia???

[Cassia]

Nancy wrote: "Where's our moderator? Cassia???"
Hi Nancy, I'm here. Sorry for your absence last week. The flu left me in bed for a few days.
I am finishing the book and in a little while I come back to give my thoughts on the fantastic story of Bourne.

[Cassia]

Cora wrote: "I finished a couple of days ago. I'll definitely read more Ludlum. I remember reading him years ago, but that memory is fuzzy.

I liked the movies. They are fun to watch if you're in the mood for a..."

Hi Cora, I agree with you about the films, they are very good to see and contain much of the action and adventure of the book. For me book adaptations are the quickest way to show a story, supporting an updated version of the books and not exactly copies.

The search for Bourne by his memories, even holds us in reading the book. Involvement with Marie at the beginning seemed to me a bit brutal, with violence against her. But then she was very brave and determined in her attitudes, and this brought security to the memoryless Bourne.

[Cassia]

Lauretta wrote: "@Lance: Yeah, most times the movies are more entertaining than the books, but you've got to admit that the books let you 'get into the mind of the characters/ be privy to their thought patterns' I ..."

Hi Lauretta, I agree with you, I prefer the movies to the books because I am a very visual person. But I really like the details of the story, 'get into the mind of the characters' as you said, and this only the book will provide.

[Cassia]

M.L. Roberts wrote: "I was thinking about Stockholm Syndrome, too. He's kind of hammering home her reasons, so for me, well, I'm a little more skeptical about accepting them. :) "

I did not have to not think of the Stockholm Syndrome in relation to Bourne and Marie. She had all the moral and rational reasons to leave him, but she felt attracted by an unknown violent and no past that just did not kill her.

If we sympathize with Bourne character, can we have bit of this syndrome?

[Cora]

Cassia wrote: "Cora wrote: "I finished a couple of days ago. I'll definitely read more Ludlum. I remember reading him years ago, but that memory is fuzzy.

I liked the movies. They are fun to watch if you're in t..."

Yes, Cassia, he was brutal in the beginning--the movie softened his personality. I think, in the book, his instincts kicked in as he was trying to survive. Even though he was rough, he didn't seem to want to harm her.

I've taught a few men returning from Iraq with PTSD, and Jason has similar issues and gut reactions. It's a little disconcerting to have someone space out or go to a dark place during a class. Because of my experience, I found that aspect of the book interesting. Also, the men who were recovering all said they had someone who grounded them, usually a wife, which is why I found Marie believable. Her grounding might have helped him from going off the deep end.

I don't understand the attraction to violent men, but I know it happens. He did save her, and I would imagine that created some sort of connection. Also, the book doesn't address it, but she had to be dealing with her own trauma.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

Starting the book today. I never saw the movies.

[Emma]

Just finished the book and am planning on watching the movie next, which I hope is better than the book. I thought the book was a mix of really great parts that I thoroughly enjoyed and really bad parts that took me a while to get through. Not as great of a book as I was expecting, but it wasn't terrible.

[Cora]

Emma wrote: "Just finished the book and am planning on watching the movie next, which I hope is better than the book. I thought the book was a mix of really great parts that I thoroughly enjoyed and really bad ..."

The movies are typical Hollywood action adventure and not like this book, which I found more mature and believable.

But, they are fun. I liked them enough to buy the set. I haven't read the other books, so don't know if the other movies follow the books.

[paul togher]

I haven't read this in a while, but I'd still consider it one of the all-time great thrillers. It's not perfect - dialogue was never one of Ludlum's strong points, in my opinion, and his characters tend to speak in an over-elaborate, long-winded manner, but the initial concept is fantastic and the plot twists are clever. For all he is presented as a man of violence, Bourne is actually quite merciful and several times ties up or disables opponents any real operative would drop on the spot, but to be fair, it was written at a time when the "good guys" had to have a little white knight to them.
On the whole, well, it's The Bourne Identity, a genre-defining classic. Recommended to any thriller reader.

[M.L.]

I reached the part where they are revealing who Bourne is, and glad to reach that. Still very much Stockholm Syndrome: Marie was independent before Bourne, but after encountering Bourne, she came near to losing it when she thought he left her, no independence without him. Some great actions scenes though.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

I finished it tonight. Quite a thriller and a real puzzle box! Do the movies include the triple layers of complexity and the twists of loyalty?

[Lance]

Emma wrote: "Just finished the book and am planning on watching the movie next, which I hope is better than the book..."

aPriL does feral sometimes wrote: "Do the movies include the triple layers of complexity and the twists of loyalty?"

It is and they do. The first three films have more on their minds that the average actioner, and Paul Greenglass knows how to put together a movie. The films effectively update the story and excise most of the things that make the book problematic.

Several people here have commented on Marie's brush with the Stockholm Syndrome. I'm not sure that's what Ludlum had in mind; I think he just didn't know how to write a female character with agency at this point in his career. (Whether he ever did is something for someone else to comment on.) The book's Marie is the standard-issue damsel-in-distress whose only real reason to exist is to be rescued and protected; that she completely loses her brain was probably considered a feature back then, not a bug. The film's Marie is more of a grownup even though she doesn't have the book Marie's gloss. It's interesting to see the difference on-screen: the 1988 TV miniseries cast Jaclyn Smith (who never had to play tough ever, even as an Angel) in the role, while the 2002 movie Marie was Franka Potente, who's been playing tough, resourceful women since Run Lola Run.

Ludlum may be an acquired taste that I never acquired. I've been able to get all the way through only three of his books; the wooden dialog, penny-dreadful villains, useless heroines and omnipotent global cabals of evil drove me off every other time I tried. I explain myself at more length in my review of this book, but to sum it up: bad villain, bad heroine, creaky plot, a period piece that hasn't aged gracefully.

[M.L.]

I finished it and ended up really liking it. I'll definitely read the next one. Great action!