Play-In & 1st Rounds TOB 2017

[Lark]

Jen wrote: "Sherri wrote: "The most shocking thing about today's judgment was All the Birds knocking Lucy Barton out of zombie contention."

Agreed - that was a surprise."

One of the strongest undercurrents in this year's tournament (stronger than most years) is judges' relative lack of interest in giving a given book extra credit for its literary pedigree--there is a nice healthy "I liked this one better" thing going on

[Jen]

poingu wrote: "One of the strongest undercurrents in this year's tournament (stronger than most years) is judges' relative lack of interest in giving a given book extra credit for its literary pedigree--there is a nice healthy "I liked this one better" thing going on..."

I see that too and like it. It's coming through in the zombie votes too, which is a bigger surprise. I was certain the 'big books' would get the zombie votes, especially because we have to vote before there's time to read the list. I'm happy to be proven wrong!

[Lark]

Jen wrote: "I see that too and like it..."

I like it when I agree with them, and I decide the judges must be philistines when I don't.

[Jen]

poingu wrote: "Jen wrote: "I see that too and like it..."

I like it when I agree with them, and I decide the judges must be philistines when I don't."

Ha! Indeed.

[Sherri]

The left side of my bracket is still intact for now. It's funny, I've been loud about rooting for Homegoing to win the Rooster, but the more I think about Version Control and Grief is a Thing with Feathers, the more I would love to see one of them win. Version Control is a book that I cannot stop thinking about. I went out to lunch with a friend yesterday and it's all I wanted to talk about (she's read it too). And "Grief" is proving to be a story that's giving me serious book hangover. I don't want to move on.

[Amy]

Sherri wrote: "The left side of my bracket is still intact for now. It's funny, I've been loud about rooting for Homegoing to win the Rooster, but the more I think about Version Control and Grief is a Thing with ..."

either one of them winning would certainly be less expected than the literary tome of the year!

I've only guessed 6 showdowns properly... I called the All the Birds in the Sky upset (more wishful thinking than anything!) but never anticipated the Grief is the Thing with Feathersupset!

[Nadine in California]

Not the decision I would have made - the judge didn't seem too happy about either book and went with the one that felt more familiar. I felt kinda sorry for him.

I think what frustrated me so much about Version Control is that with a whole lot of editing I could have really liked it. The first half that set up the characters and their histories was soooo slow, and I had little sense that it took place in a future world. All the good 'future world' stuff was in the second half and felt rushed. I wish the two halves had been better integrated.

The Mothers felt like a much better crafted book to me. A smaller but richer story.

[Jenny (Reading Envy)]

Nadine wrote: "The Mothers felt like a much better crafted book to me. A smaller but richer story."
Oh me too. Evidenced by the fact that I'm STILL only on page 267 of Version Control and couldn't put The Mothers down.

Not to stir up an old argument, but was anyone bothered by the judge commenting "A tiny heart is stopped during abortion."? It made me wonder if he decided against it the moment it mentioned abortion. The book, I feel, should be able to be read from either political stance because it's not a pro/con abortion book, it's just one of the things that happens.

(She repeats again, feeling flashbacks from the book-specific discussion.)

[[deleted user]]

Nadine wrote: "...the judge didn't seem too happy about either book and went with the one that felt more familiar. I felt kinda sorry for him..."

Imagine the thrill he felt upon finding out that he would be the Reader Judge, contrasted with how he must have felt while reading the commentariat today. I would not choose Rinehart for a friend, and probably wouldn't even want to know him, but I feel compassion for him.

[Drew]

Tina wrote: "Nadine wrote: "Imagine the thrill he felt upon finding out that he would be the Reader Judge, contrasted with how he must have felt while reading the commentariat today."

Thanks for writing this, Tina. I've been thinking that all day. I, too, feel compassion for him. When I was judging the alt.TOB, I have to admit I worried a little about accidentally setting off a firestorm.

[Lark]

I feel bad that the Morning News staff didn't guide him better. These were easy edits to make and they let him down by allowing him to make such incendiary missteps--and of all things, they were responsible, not him, for linking to a website that others would naturally find upsetting.

[Amy]

poingu wrote: "I feel bad that the Morning News staff didn't guide him better. These were easy edits to make and they let him down by allowing him to make such incendiary missteps--and of all things, they were re..."

I agree. I don't necessarily like the guy or his friends but it didn't surprise me that he couldn't 'see' any of the females in his books and then chose to drop that line in which is an indoctrinated thought in many spheres (whether screamed at others or spoken in earnest). What DID surprise me is that the moderators didn't help him see how that might impact others. And the link to an alt-right business and philosophy was just completely poor choice. I HAVE been feeling that the judges, commentators and commentariat have been so smug about how stupid the right/Trump supporters etc. are (which can be omitted even when discussing the impact of current events upon oneself) so it felt a little overdue to have a different viewpoint here... not that I know how the judge voted or how conservative he is ... but what a shame that it swung all the way over to normalizing fascists.

[Nadine in California]

Amy wrote: "poingu wrote: "I feel bad that the Morning News staff didn't guide him better. These were easy edits to make and they let him down by allowing him to make such incendiary missteps--and of all thing... What DID surprise me is that the moderators didn't help him see how that might impact others"

I didn't see any of this when I read his comments the first time, so I just went back to see why I was so dense. But even the 2nd time around, I don't see it. The Curtis Yarvin/Urbit thing is still totally over my head, although this sentence "Even though his blog was repurposed to support fascism, I still love Moldbug" seems like a reasonable excuse for feeling some residual love for an old friend who's gone off the deep end.

I interpreted the 'tiny heart is stopped' not as a statement against abortion, but as part of a litany of sadness: "A football player’s leg is crushed. A tiny heart is stopped during abortion. Promises are broken and friendships crumble. " It isn't weighed as any more or less than the other things. Which is kind of how Bennett treats it too - as Jenny has already said in comment 108. I'm not ready to assume that Rinehart is anti-abortion from what he's written. What I see between the lines is a self-described dad of an adopted 14 year old biracial girl who is maybe scared and saddened to feel the pain of a black girl who isn't much older than his daughter. Which shows the power of the book.

[Amy]

Hi Nadine - I think the problem is that he doesn't actually empathize with Nadia... he does not explicitly mention her in his list of "football player", "tiny heart" vague "friendships" and since he only uses her name when quoting a paragraph that could be implied to be about regret/wishing undone what has happened AND he just talked about VC as if there were no female characters, I actually think he is subtly sympathizing with the "tiny heart" and never with Nadia. He just showed a huge amount of identification with a lone character in VC and all he had to do was add an "a girl is left motherless" or such to his list of damage to actually show he SEES Nadia. That he says he's "pro-choice" does not mean he isn't dismissing Nadia or judging her with the rest of his words. He seems to be on the side of the "Mothers" GR thread that believes Bennet is punishing Nadia.... and he seems to find that ok.

[Nadine in California]

Amy wrote: "Hi Nadine - I think the problem is that he doesn't actually empathize with Nadia... he does not explicitly mention her in his list of "football player", "tiny heart" vague "friendships" ...AND he just talked about VC as if there were no female characters..."

I see your point....for me he's dancing around Nadia, but with VC it's as if the women didn't exist. (Even Alicia, the pixie dream girl, science-style .) I wonder what he would have done with a review of Lab Girl ;) At least he's helped remind me of how beautifully Bennett related to all her characters - she seems to love them all, regardless of their strengths or faults.