Navigating Indieworld Discussing All Things Indie discussion
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The GRRRR!!!!!! thread
Alex wrote: "Could anyone in the US do me a favour and check the price on this book https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07... it shows for me as 99c but it's supposed to be $4.99. I've t..."
Alex, it's $4.99.
Not really a "Grrr!" Just part of the writing life. But I keep hoping it won't turn out this way:Got my second rejection from an agent on Space Operatic. Shipped it off to a third and identified a couple more to keep waiting in the wings for the nearly inevitable next rejection.
Unfortunately, this is about where I usually start having doubts about a manuscript . . . but I'm going to keep plowing ahead with it.
Yes do plough ahead. You know all the greats have been rejected many times so if you want to be a great writer, you have to collect at least 20 rejection slips.
I think I'm up to about four or five rejections from agents this year. Lost count. C'est la vie.
Anna Faversham wrote: "Yes do plough ahead. You know all the greats have been rejected many times so if you want to be a great writer, you have to collect at least 20 rejection slips."20? I've got enough to paper the loft! (;>)
This might help you (in terms of who might even give you the courtesy of a response and who will blow you off):
Finding a Literary Agent…the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly
https://www.goodreads.com/author_blog...
That is a lot of "assumed to have passed". It reminds me I may have another default rejection if the correct number of weeks have gone by.
Amy wrote: "That is a lot of "assumed to have passed". It reminds me I may have another default rejection if the correct number of weeks have gone by."That's their "out." I guess they are so inundated that they simply toss aside what they don't want and let the clock run out. Such is life today. When I was in business, I insisted that our HR departments always (!) responded to every candidate, regardless of the outcome. There is no excuse for poor manners. None!
Yes, just checked I've had another rejection by default. I tried. I'm actually quite hardened to it now.
Anna Faversham wrote: "Yes do plough ahead. You know all the greats have been rejected many times so if you want to be a great writer, you have to collect at least 20 rejection slips."Yep. And I'm sure I've collected more than 20, just not in recent years. Does that count? Can I brag about brag great now? ;-)
Theodore wrote: "This might help you (in terms of who might even give you the courtesy of a response and who will blow you off):."Thanks, Ted. I think I may have read that before, but it never hurts to be reminded. I've actually never been blown off by an agent. I find that if I follow their instructions (and I always follow the instructions from the specific agent/agency to whom I'm submitting), I always get some kind of reply, even if it's just a form rejection.
Alex wrote: "On a positive note, Dale, at least you have the courage to submit to agents, I'm too cowardly for that."It takes some practice to become inured to rejection slips, but once you get there, it's not really all that hard. You just assume you'll get a rejection but hope for something better eventually. ;-)
Amy wrote: "That is a lot of "assumed to have passed". It reminds me I may have another default rejection if the correct number of weeks have gone by."I wouldn't assume a "rejection by default." So long as you've read and followed the agent's specific instructions (correct email address. correct content delivered in the correct form, etc.), I would send a follow-up query asking if they received your submission. Sometimes things do go wrong and emails go missing or get shunted off to the spam folder when they shouldn't. If there is no response to your follow-up, then move on, but don't let it go without a follow-up.
I think about half the ones I submitted to say on their websites that if they don’t reply within a certain time, they’re not interested. The rest have sent me an email saying they’re not interested while trying to say something positive about my book.
The default ones are also the ones where I received an automatic receipt when I queried. Their system got my book. They just don’t want it. One said he liked it but didn’t love it. (Waves a dismissive hand in the air.)
Alex wrote: "What makes it even sillier, Dale, is that I could include some numbers that would increase my chances of getting picked up by an agent, but when I think of those numbers I ended deciding that if I ..."I think, more and more today, the legacy houses are looking for authors who can bring TO THEM marketing platforms already baked into the pie...and the reason is, they aren't putting out anything near what they did years ago in terms of advances, marketing dollars/assistance, and so forth. And I agree with Alex...frankly, having to deal with a content editor (I don't mind the other) would make my skin itch, never mind the fact my book wouldn't see the light of day for a least a year or more. I'd love the validation, but hell, life is short. Who needs the aggravation?
I’d love the validation and the opportunity to maybe appear in a bricks and mortar bookshop. But those are the only boxes I’d be ticking. (Some sales would also help)
I can’t imagine me being truly happy with more than copy editing. (Hope I’ve got my terminology correct.) I’d do it if it meant more money. Even that isn’t a guarantee.
Amy wrote: "The default ones are also the ones where I received an automatic receipt when I queried. Their system got my book. They just don’t want it. One said he liked it but didn’t love it. (Waves a dismiss..."Ah, well, okay. If they explicitly say that you can assume they don't want it after x weeks, that's different.
Alex wrote: "What makes it even sillier, Dale, is that I could include some numbers that would increase my chances of getting picked up by an agent, but when I think of those numbers I ended deciding that if I ..."If you're speaking in terms of marketing, then sure, if you already have the marketing savvy and whatnot, it may not be an issue. I don't have those numbers. :-P
Theodore wrote: "I think, more and more today, the legacy houses are looking for authors who can bring TO THEM marketing platforms already baked into the pie."That's probably true in at least some cases. I would like to have representation and publication through a larger house than my own mostly for the marketing reach. I don't have much reach at this point, and nothing I've done so far seems to have helped much, in spite of the help of a lot of people here in getting the word out. It could be I'm just a marketing dunce (which I would not protest).
On the other hand, I'm not sure I'm giving agents/publishers quite what they want. I think I'm a pretty good storyteller, but I may not be all that "literary" and I don't curse ever third word (either in my writing or my actual speech) . . .
Dale wrote: "Theodore wrote: "I think, more and more today, the legacy houses are looking for authors who can bring TO THEM marketing platforms already baked into the pie."That's probably true in at least som..."
Some of it, perhaps, might have to do with genre...perhaps if we wrote bodice-rippers with a ton of sex under fem pen names, it might kick things up a notch. (;>)
Alex wrote: "No marketing savvy, Dale, I've just been lucky enough to have some very good months that resulted in a decent amount of sales. They've tailed off now unfortunately, but I could at least tell an age..."Do you have any sense of how you got that lucky in those months?
Theodore wrote: "Some of it, perhaps, might have to do with genre...perhaps if we wrote bodice-rippers with a ton of sex under fem pen names, it might kick things up a notch. (;>)"Maybe, but I write mysteries and although it's not the top genre, it's a very popular one, soooo . . .
Alex wrote: "Believe me, Dale, I am very aware of how lucky I got in those months. It was while I was published with Pronoun and I really wish I knew how that period of luck came about so I could at least try a..."Inexplicable fortune can be good sometimes. ;-)
If you decide to look somewhere else, I'd like to add the girl I used. She's very patient, she LISTENS, and when she says unlimited revisions,..."These are amazing covers.
Having a rubbish week for no other reason than I'm working my way through another edit of Missing Remnants (which is good) and starting to believe the voices in my head that keep telling me I'm wasting my bloody time because it won't sell. Meh.
Amy wrote: "Having a rubbish week for no other reason than I'm working my way through another edit of Missing Remnants (which is good) and starting to believe the voices in my head that keep telling me I'm was..."“What if I fall?”
“Oh, but my darling, what if you fly?”
-E.H.
Thank you both. It's a lot of work, time and money to put in for some obscure little book that barely gets read. But I'll do it anyway because I can and it is very good.
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I'm more of a hit and run promotion type of person too. I think it comes from the lifestyle I have at the moment.
Seeing as it's a short book, I was thinking of using a smaller trim size for Missing Remnants. I'm not sure I can, financially it doesn't make sense. I wouldn't be expecting to sell many paperbacks, but if I went for the price and size I was thinking of, I'd end up with 20p per copy after print costs are taken out. I'll have to rethink that.
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Will do. I’m finding it a challenge to think of the right bit.
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R.L. wrote: "The new Amazon debacle. Apparently reviews aren’t literal anymore. They are based on an algorithm and when questioned about it from an author, they wouldn’t explain. Oy. My head is spinning"Huh? I don’t understand. Got a source link?
Alexis wrote: "R.L. wrote: "The new Amazon debacle. Apparently reviews aren’t literal anymore. They are based on an algorithm and when questioned about it from an author, they wouldn’t explain. Oy. My head is spi..."Oh, they’ve been doing this since 2015. Maybe they just changed the formula a bit.
Excerpt:
Based on machine learning technology it has developed, the ecommerce giant will weigh more heavily newer reviews and reviews from verified Amazon purchases.
Additionally, it will take into consideration upvotes on reviews from other Amazon customers.
https://econsultancy.com/blog/66613-n...
Weeeelllll I suppose that makes sense. Although my lack of enthusiasm for how they do things is because I don’t consider myself in the game. Few sales, fewer reviews. To me personally it makes no difference what they do.
@ message 1832. The way I'd look at it, Amy, is if you like writing/producing books but it doesn't make you any money, then it is more like a hobby than a way of making a living or even enhancing it.That's not a bad thing! Once you can definitely put it in the 'much loved hobby box', then it stops guilt feelings. Allocate it 'allowed-for-a-hobby' time.
If pursuing fame and fortune (even just a teensy bit of either) then that's OK too so long as it is not harming (even destroying) other parts of your life.
Or you can give it all you've got. There's a risk of losing something of the life you have already invested in and built up but maybe you will hit that line where it starts to support you and those you love and/or are responsible for.
There are more scenarios you could play with. But I'd draw some boxes and put tangible pros and tangible cons (rather than possible pros and cons) in each box. Then add the possibles.
One thing seems certain to me: you like writing - so don't give it up altogether.
Any help?!!!!!!!!!!!
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You can tell I went on one of these big company 'management' courses, can't you? So that I could learn and then teach my team.I remember that tasks should be given tags of urgent, important, desirable and other things (forgotten). Urgent and important? Do that first.
Amy has made me realize how little I have followed this advice in regard to writing. I have an 'urgent and important' task I should be doing and here I am - chatting away on a writing-related forum raising writing-related to the level which forces out the urgent and important task that was left from yesterday... But I am a happy bunny :) But getting increasingly worried. :(
I have enough hobbies that take money to sustain-I don’t do many of them anymore because of lack of finances or as my dad put it the “waste of money”. I’d rather not publish a thing than spend money on the process and never make any of it back. Writing is a business for me, not a hobby. It may be a tiny business but it will never be a hobby. I think that’s upbringing talking. Hobbies, according to my dad, were a waste of money unless they were sport.
Amy wrote: "I have enough hobbies that take money to sustain-I don’t do many of them anymore because of lack of finances or as my dad put it the “waste of money”. I’d rather not publish a thing than spend mone..."We haven’t read the book.
Most of us don’t know the market or what readers want.
Only you can decide whether you have written something worth going through the hassle for.
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Yeah I read that in the thread that posted about it but its still ridiculous. I review is a review. Why count an older review as less simply because its older? A class action lawsuit is afoot though so we will see
Ack, rough week. It’s a really good book. I’ll get it out there and see what happens.
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Tons of authors, Mark Dawson for example made 100k in Kindle Unlimited in February alone. Just because he doesn’t know an author means nothing. Grr people suck
Well I’m confused. Screenplays aren’t non-fiction. What? I think that’s largely nonsense.
Anna Faversham wrote: "@ message 1832. The way I'd look at it, Amy, is if you like writing/producing books but it doesn't make you any money, then it is more like a hobby than a way of making a living or even enhancing i..."I so agree with you, Anna, it can be disappointing to want to make a living with your writing and it doesn't seem to be happening. But making it into a hobby, does make the situation much better. It makes you move on to other things, but still hold the dream that one day.....
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Navigating Indieworld Discussing All Things Indie
Books mentioned in this topic
Amy Robsart: A Life and Its End (other topics)Iridessian Haunts (other topics)
Writing a novel to a deadline would be a problem for me, too, but I didn't set up the crowdfunding until the novel was written and we had a pretty good idea of when we would have the editing and typesetting done.