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It Can't Happen Here
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March 2017- It Can't Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis
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My copy came yesterday. Haven't really decided whether I will re-read it or not. I did read it fairly recently.
I hadn't heard of it before, but goodness it could have been about Trump! Very scary - a little like the man himself...
I read it during the Bush 43 years and it seemed very apt then, too.
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Susan wrote: "I hadn't heard of it before, but goodness it could have been about Trump! Very scary - a little like the man himself..."Amen!!!
I've been listening at work when I have a mindless task to do. I'm on chapter 17 of 38 and am really enjoying it, though yes, some points are hitting a bit close to home right now. I like how we're brought into the political climate through a fairly ordinary man, Doremus Jessup, and his community with their opinions on Buzz Windrip (sp? I'm not positive I'm getting all the names right, listening). Windrip's platform had some points that made sense, and others that didn't, so you could see how someone like Shad Ladoux might vote for him. The comments about how dictators aren't usually married, but Windrip is, though his wife is staying home... Hmm, sounds familiar... It's really interesting. I can't wait to see where the next half+ of the book goes.
Only started with a quick read of chapter 1 but oh, we're in for a journey here. The DAR seems to me the most terrifying organization as "holy as the Catholic Church".
I love the constant opposition displayed from dialogue to description, where the voices are authoritarian yet the world is still set in our world - Micky mouse, for example. Disturbing sense of normalcy during it all.
I love the constant opposition displayed from dialogue to description, where the voices are authoritarian yet the world is still set in our world - Micky mouse, for example. Disturbing sense of normalcy during it all.
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Do our American Bright Young Things know anyone who belongs to it? or do they belong to it themselves? how does it work today? what does it do? what is it's significance in modern life?
I know very little about it. It seems to be a lot of prestige, to say you're a DAR. I know that my high school gave out a scholarship for a DAR member, which didn't rub me the right way... (It just seemed really exclusive in a community that had a lot of immigrants.) My family didn't have anyone in the US on either side even in 1900...
DAR is an organization that you can only join if you can prove your genealogy back to an ancestor who fought in the American Revolution. I actually can, but have never had any interest in joining. Just because you're related to someone who fought in that war doesn't make you something to be proud of. Plenty of those early ancestors would have been slaveholders--hardly a thing to be proud of. And even if you're related to someone totally great, it doesn't make YOU great. I remember my mom telling me that the DAR had refused to allow Marian Anderson to sing in their hall because of her race and, as a fan of her music, I've always felt they were horrible racists and not a group I'd want to have anything to do with. Of course that was a long time ago (I heard the story 60 years ago, and it wasn't new then) and things may certainly have changed.
Ally wrote: "I was going to ask about the DAR - Daughters of the American Revolution. I though this was a fictional group when I first came across it in an American Sitcom...but it's come up here too so I looke..."
I don't have any direct experience with DAR, however, I DO have experience with their sister-organization, The DRT - Daughters of the Republic of Texas.
For non-American readers here, Texas operated as it's own republic for 9 years before it was annexed by the United States. I grew up in San Antonio, Texas, and worked for a while at The Alamo - a famous battle site in the Texas Revolution.
The DRT managed the site, so day-to-day operations. I worked for them in the educational department - but these women were two things: insanely charming and totally insane.
Like the DAR, the DRT also required direct bloodline from someone who either served in the revolution or who was a political figure/early settler during the republic days. Anyways, these women were beyond strict to a ridiculous degree, rude, assumed they were superior in every way to everyone else, talked of NOTHING but their ancestors, had it completely define them.
And yes - they had extreme political clout. These organizations don't really do much in terms of the federal government, but they have a strong presence in state levels and local levels. I daresay much of what we're taught of in American History comes directly from their efforts and their influence. They've (DAR/DRT/etc.) have had a remarkable effect on educational policy, especially in the south and the east coast.
There's also: United Daughters of the Confederacy (UDC), Sons of Confederate Veterans (SCV), Sons of the American Revolution (SAR), which I'm personally eligible for but don't have much of an interest - these groups have been known for extreme nationalism and racist behavior, only recently (if at all) opening their membership to non-whites, for example.
I don't have any direct experience with DAR, however, I DO have experience with their sister-organization, The DRT - Daughters of the Republic of Texas.
For non-American readers here, Texas operated as it's own republic for 9 years before it was annexed by the United States. I grew up in San Antonio, Texas, and worked for a while at The Alamo - a famous battle site in the Texas Revolution.
The DRT managed the site, so day-to-day operations. I worked for them in the educational department - but these women were two things: insanely charming and totally insane.
Like the DAR, the DRT also required direct bloodline from someone who either served in the revolution or who was a political figure/early settler during the republic days. Anyways, these women were beyond strict to a ridiculous degree, rude, assumed they were superior in every way to everyone else, talked of NOTHING but their ancestors, had it completely define them.
And yes - they had extreme political clout. These organizations don't really do much in terms of the federal government, but they have a strong presence in state levels and local levels. I daresay much of what we're taught of in American History comes directly from their efforts and their influence. They've (DAR/DRT/etc.) have had a remarkable effect on educational policy, especially in the south and the east coast.
There's also: United Daughters of the Confederacy (UDC), Sons of Confederate Veterans (SCV), Sons of the American Revolution (SAR), which I'm personally eligible for but don't have much of an interest - these groups have been known for extreme nationalism and racist behavior, only recently (if at all) opening their membership to non-whites, for example.
I'm not really up to date on the DAR but when I was young they were known to be an extremely conservative group. They did bar Marian Anderson from Constitution Hall (I think) and Eleanor Roosevelt helped arrange for her to sing at the Lincoln Memorial (?), at any rate, on the Mall. Where they still have 4th of July concerts. It was my understanding that this event caused some people (ER, for one) to drop out of the DAR.
One of the most interesting things about this novel for me, was how quickly things happened. For half the book we lead up to the election, really, but, once Buzz hits the White House we have a sudden clampdown on the rights of the press and on those who disagree for their own protection. Also, what did everyone think of the Minute Men?
Sinclair Lewis has obviously borrowed some of his enforcement methods from the Nazis, but made the rhetoric very similar to that used by some US politicians. It works frighteningly well.
I know that the DAR has traditionally been a very conservative group. When I was young they were regularly in the newspapers for trying to block African Americans from the Metropolitan Opera, etc. I have not seen public reference to them in a couple of decades.The novel sets the press up against the presidential candidate, Buzz. The only difference I can see is that Buzz has hired somebody who can write a simple declarative sentence. His people may be slightly more literate than the Trump people, but otherwise the politics are similar.
Buzz does not offer the impossible though, he offers the tangible, in the form of money. Plus, there is a sense of possibilities opening up to those like Shad, which would have been appealing. We were saved the Tweets, as such things didn't yet exist, but he probably would have, had they been available ;)
Yes, the money is more 'Brexit' than Trump, although I'm not sure any politician has actually offered a direct hand-out in the way Buzz Windrip did, whether they came up with or not.PS This book has been out of print for many years, but was reissued while the vote was in progress (in the UK, perhaps not in the US). That might explain why you had not heard about it, Susan.
Obviously, I knew the author, but I had not heard of the book. You are right, I am sure, Val.
I think it was brought back out here around 2005 or so, when we were suffering under Bush.
You thought you were suffering, Jan. Little did you know that was just practice.... One odd thing about current events is how statesmanlike everyone else looks in comparison. We have Boris Johnson heading to Russia for talks and the press can't even rouse itself to make cheap jokes.
This book so far is a fantastic page turner, but also rather terrifying. Many of Windrip's tactics are age old dictator tricks.
As the novel goes on, I'm loving certain aspects:
- the constant reminder that the MM's are the poor farm boys or boys/men with no economic opportunity but even more telling, the ones with the smallest amounts of education.
- The developing idea that comfort in materialism and capitalism led to helping bring on Windrip.
- the fault of intellectualism, which in theory should have saved the nation but most intellectuals are just as susceptible in the above point. Doremus seems to embody this. He keeps his knowledge to himself and looks down on others and worships his material comforts (books, his offices, etc.) when he could be using his skills to help stop it all. His realization in the jail was pretty profound for him.
As the novel goes on, I'm loving certain aspects:
- the constant reminder that the MM's are the poor farm boys or boys/men with no economic opportunity but even more telling, the ones with the smallest amounts of education.
- The developing idea that comfort in materialism and capitalism led to helping bring on Windrip.
- the fault of intellectualism, which in theory should have saved the nation but most intellectuals are just as susceptible in the above point. Doremus seems to embody this. He keeps his knowledge to himself and looks down on others and worships his material comforts (books, his offices, etc.) when he could be using his skills to help stop it all. His realization in the jail was pretty profound for him.
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I'm listening to it, and have read two other of Lewis's books, so I can't say I've noticed the writing being poor. I'm sorry you're finding it so. :/
I thought the writing began a little poor (or at least strange to me), but I really warmed up to it as the novel continued on.
Just finished it today, couldn't put it down. Thought it was brilliant, but I'd love to know other people's thoughts on it once they finish.
Just finished it today, couldn't put it down. Thought it was brilliant, but I'd love to know other people's thoughts on it once they finish.
It was written in a hurry. I keep meaning to look up the biography I have of Lewis, Sinclair Lewis: An American Life by Mark Schorer.
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By the way, there is a lot of use of the word 'jeffersonian' - referring I presume to Thomas Jefferson?...can anyone neatly sum up what it is to be a 'jeffersonian' party?
Jeffersonian would refer to following the goals of TJ, decentralization of power in the federal government and giving more choices back to the people. In opposition to Hamilton's and Madison's view centralized government. We have just seen the results of an election catering to the decentralization . Popular in the rural areas of the US, not so much in the urban areas, or among those of us who have formerly lived in cosmopolitan areas.
Thanks for explaining that, Jan. I must agree with Ally that, even though I found the novel fascinating (especially in lieu of current events) it was not something that would have gripped me otherwise.
So, this discussion seems to have died down a bit. As March is coming to an end, I was curious if anyone else has any thoughts on this work?
It might have been helpful had it become popular before the recent US election? Or perhaps those voting a certain way are, like the current President, unlikely to be big readers?
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I have been feeling guilty about not reading this one...I'm about 1/3 through and Buzz has just been elected but I just can't read it....my mind just wanders as its not well written so I find I've read a couple of pages and I'm not able to recall anything that has happened.
So...I listened to a Podcast on Infinite Gestation - http://infinitegestation.com/
Its about an hour long and does go into a lot of the different aspects of the book so perhaps our members could listen to that then pop back and discuss it?
http://infinitegestation.com/podcast/...
There are so many great podcasts available now, Ally. Thanks for the link.
I'm still slowly going on this. I haven't had much time to listen to it, and we loaned the physical copy of the book to my mom so I can't even get back to it that way!I'm still enjoying it. The family just tried escaping to Canada. I'm worried about what is going to happen to Doremus and Sissy; I'm afraid Shad will get to Sissy somehow...
I'll have to listen to that podcast (but again, haven't had much time to listen to things lately).
Don't feel guilty, Ally, about not reading (though I definitely understand the feeling). There have been so many group reads that I've either started or meant to start and then just fizzled. You can't help not being into a particular book.
I finished this this week, finally. Overall I enjoyed it, but it did become a bit of a slog to get through (though I find I have this problem with all of Lewis's books I've read so...). I found myself having to back up the audiobook and relisten to parts that I'd stopped paying attention to. That doesn't sound like I enjoyed it, but I did. I think Lewis is really good at social commentary and what ifs and those both came out well here.
The social commentary is my favorite aspect. I love how he exposes the American need for material goods, and how our "need" for such things is what damages the world we claim to adore. Thought those aspects were brilliant.
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I don't know a lot about DAR, but I guess my dad's sister was able to trace our ancestry back to be eligible, but I haven't pursued it for myself.
I came across a book about Marion Anderson that I've thought about nominating for a group read in the past. I can't remember what it was called, but maybe I'll have to look it up again since it seems some people are interested in her story!
Looks like there a number of books about Marian Anderson.
Bright Young Things
Books mentioned in this topic
Sinclair Lewis: An American Life (other topics)It Can't Happen Here (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
Mark Schorer (other topics)Sinclair Lewis (other topics)
Enjoy!