The History Book Club discussion
ROMAN EMPIRE -THE HISTORY...
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WE ARE OPEN - WEEK ONE - SPQR - A HISTORY OF ANCIENT ROME - WEEK ONE - April 17th - April 23rd - Prologue: The History of Rome and Chapter One: Cicero's Finest Hour - (pages 15 - 52) ~ No Spoilers, Please
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The first week's reading assignment is:
WEEK ONE - April 17th - April 23rd -> Prologue: The History of Rome, and 1. Cicero’s Finest Hour (15 - 52)
Chapter Overview and Summaries:
Prologue: The History of Rome
Ancient Rome has had a remarkable impact on our history and culture – language, government, geography, literature, engineering. New discoveries about what life was like back then can cause us to re-examine old conclusions and prejudices.
Chapter One - Cicero’s Finest Hour
Late in the year 63 BC Marcus Tullius Cicero, one of the consuls for the year, accused Lucius Sergius Catilina (aka Catiline) of trying to foment revolution. Cicero and other important men were to be killed, Catiline would take over the government and cancel all debts. Cicero and Catiline had both run for consul for this year; Catiline had come in third and was heavily in debt. He ran again for the next year and lost again. Catiline fled Rome after the accusation, but some of the co-conspirators were caught and brought before the Senate. Exile would have been the standard punishment, but Cicero argued they would only join up with Catiline. There were no facilities for imprisonment in Rome, so the only safe thing to do was to execute them, which was done.
Catiline was defeated in battle and killed, and Cicero proclaimed Pater Patriae (Father of His Country), of which he reminded people for many years after. We know a lot about this incident because of Sallust’s War Against Catiline and Cicero’s letters and speeches. Of course, we don’t have Catiline’s version of events. The allegations might have been exaggerations of fairly innocent matters, but we’ll never know.
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Please post and check the table of contents and syllabus.
We Begin:
As an introduction - for all folks - please post a brief intro here for your fellow readers of SPQR introducing yourself and at the same time give us your general impression of the first week's reading that made an impression on you right from the start - Remember we are only talking about the Week One assignment right now.
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Sample:
Hello - I am Bentley - group owner - lead and moderator for this spotlighted read - I am living in the Metro New York City area. Mary Beard and her writing about ancient Rome has always fascinated me and I wonder what we will learn about this segment of history that will carry us over to the present day. I look forward to Vicki leading the discussion of this book and I will sit back and read along.
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One thing that struck me from the prologue is that archaeological discoveries are still being made which can change our understanding of what happened so many centuries ago. Considering how long the city of Rome has been in existence there must be lots and lots of stuff waiting to be unearthed.
Please post a short introduction to let us know where you're from and how you got interested in Roman history. I look forward to our discussion of this book.
by
Steven Saylor
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John Maddox Roberts
Hello! I am Breonna and I live in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. I first got into roman history as a child. I had a great history teacher for a couple of grades and she got me passionate about history. This is the first book I'm reading on roman history and I am so excited to see what I learn! I agree with Vicki about how fascinating it is to learn they are still making discoveries about roman history! Thank you for selecting this book!! I'll do my best to keep up!! :-)
Good morning! I'm Michele and I live on an island north of Seattle. I've been interested in history as long as I can remember and though always a prolific reader, I recently started to focus mostly on non-fiction. I wasn't interested in Rome at all until I visited there as part of a two week Italy tour. I wasn't expecting to like it at all (big city, noisy, crowded, etc) but I LOVED it. Very walkable, felt safe, something fascinating on every corner. I'm also new to Goodreads and this forum. Looking forward to participating!
Hi, I live in the Lower Hudson Valley in NY. I am interested in the policies of the Roman civilization for comparison to modern policies. The first impression I had was on the policy of exile (also mentioned in message 2 above), which exists in a few forms in the United States. To my knowledge, the most common and formal of which is when Native American tribes banish members for various reasons.-Leo
Hi hi... I live in Florida. I'm interested in the culture of ancient Rome during the era of the Roman Civil War. I'm especially interested in the lives of the average citizens, housing, slums, and many other topics. ~Yordie
Yordie wrote: "Hi hi... I live in Florida. I'm interested in the culture of ancient Rome during the era of the Roman Civil War. I'm especially interested in the lives of the average citizens, housing, slums, and ..."Yordie, if you ever get a chance to travel to Italy, check out the museum in Naples that has most of the items recovered from Pompeii. Lots of everyday household items, really gives you a sense of the average person going about their lives.
Thanks for the suggestion, Michelle. I'm Italian-American and would love to travel to Italy, but it's not likely anytime soon. NTL, I'm an enthusiast for all things Rome, even the sewer systems. heh. ~Yordie
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Vicki wrote: "I'm very glad to meet you folks and hope you're enjoying the book. It's interesting that Beard starts with the Catiline episode. Cicero is such a fascinating character. We're lucky to have his many..."
I agree, Vicki. I've read and seen many slants on his character but have studied his life in bits and pieces. I'd read his first Catiline paper in the past, just wanted to see how the great man operated. I felt that he was really piling on Catiline, but assumed that prosecutors did that routinely during the era. Mary explores that possibility. heh. Film and fiction portrayals of Cicero often seem to pick sides.
I agree, Vicki. I've read and seen many slants on his character but have studied his life in bits and pieces. I'd read his first Catiline paper in the past, just wanted to see how the great man operated. I felt that he was really piling on Catiline, but assumed that prosecutors did that routinely during the era. Mary explores that possibility. heh. Film and fiction portrayals of Cicero often seem to pick sides.
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Greetings Breonna. How lucky you were to have a great teacher. Too many students find history boring.
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Welcome Michele. Your trip to Italy sounds great. I hope you enjoy the book.
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Welcome Leo. Being exiled from Rome could be especially hurtful for someone really involved in politics. Usually they had enough time to transfer their wealth out of Rome to their new place of residence.
Hi, I'm Bevan from New Zealand. I agree with a few comments that it's great that Mary Beard points out straight away in the prologue the dynamism of study of this topic. Although I read a lot of more modern history I don't have a great knowledge of Rome so am looking forward to filling in some gaps. I guess I've got a few questions:- how was power exercised i.e. centralised, what degree of popular consent
- how did the quest for empire begin?
- why did Rome of all places become such a major empire, eclipsing almost all others since?
- how was the empire ruled and integrated?
- what was it like to live there?
- much has been made about our debt to Rome and it's legacy, how legitimate is this? Is there really that much continuity?
Might not find all the answers here of course! I've read some of Mary Beard's blogs and I'm sure we're in for a well written book in any case.
Hello, I'm Steven from Chicago, Illinois. I am a history aficionado but primarily focus on United States history but have more than a passing interest in 20th Century African history, Native American history and The Holocaust. I visited Italy this past October and have wanted to learn more since my visit and this was one of the books I had marked to read. During our 4 day stay in Rome we went on several small tours including the Vatican and the Coliseum and I found the city absolutely fascinating. As far as Italian history goes, I have read Livy in college and that is about it. I'm very much looking forward to reading and discussing this book.
Hi, I'm Michele from Lakewood, Ca. Getting started on the book and am going to love the discussion. Always loved Roman history and feel a connection to ancient Rome.
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Welcome Bevan. You have a lot of questions, hopefully some of them will be answered.
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Greetings Steven. I can see how visiting Rome would pique your interest in its ancient history. Having already read Livy is a great start to the topic.
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Hi Michele, we're very glad you're joining us. I hope you like the book.
Hello I'm Elizabeth from Long Beach, California. My interest with the history of Rome only started a couple of months ago when I came across a podcast by Mike Duncan entitled The History of Rome. I found it enthralling, and now have a yearning to learn more about Rome.
Mike Duncan
Hi I'm Karen Bird and I am from Valley Forge PA. I am interested in reading this because: 1. I am fascinated by ancient history (I was a history major in college), and: 2. I have read Mary Beard before and love her wit and writing style.
Interesting that the author decided to begin in the middle of the action, so to speak, with Cicero. I felt like I wanted a bit more background about how Rome came to be.
Greetings everyone. this is my first Goodreads discussion group and as a history junkie, I'm looking forward to reading everyone's comments. If the first chapter is any indication the journey with this book promises to be a great ride.
Hi, I'm Veronica from Idaho. I first became interested in history some years ago when I decided I wanted to understand why the world we live in is the way it is. History is the key to this. Roman history in particular is essential to understanding how and why western civilization developed the way it did. I look forward to our discussions.
Hello. I'm Ola from Norway (currently expating in London - not the worst place to be in exile if one's into history). I'm a historian, but since I'm specializing on 20th century this is mostly new (old) stuff for me. I have read a bit of greek history, but this is my first venture into Rome outside of the general history curriculum from my studies. My first impression of this book is very good. For me, the most striking is how Beard builds up a very convincing argument for why history is so relevant to read and teach today. She is also touching on some of the core issues of writing history, namely: what do we know and why do we know it - and just as important: what do we n o t know - and why not? This book seems to be a real treat. Looking forwards to follow the comments, and thanks to Vicki and Bentley for setting this up.
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We're glad to have you join in, Vincent. Ancient Rome is nothing if not political. I agree that Mary Beard is very readable.
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Hi, Elizabeth. I hadn't heard of that podcast. I'll have to check it out. Thanks for letting us know.
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Welcome, Karen. Looks like many of us have read and enjoyed works by Beard.
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Greetings, MicheleR. No worries, we'll get into origins of Rome in the next chapter.
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Welcome, Mike. I hope you enjoy the book and the discussion.
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Greetings, Veronica. There are lots of carry-overs from ancient Rome to today. Hopefully we can discuss many of them.
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Hi, Ola. I, too, like how Beard discusses how we know what we know about history and how it changes sometimes.
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Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History
(last edited Apr 21, 2017 07:19PM)
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Julius Caesar
Discussion Topics:
What do you think of the ruinous financial cost of moving up the cursus honorum? Caesar himself was said to be massively in debt before he went to Spain in 62 BCE as propraetor and was able to collect a lot of loot fighting the tribes there. Catilina didn't have a similar option to get money.
1. Was the money spent on the election itself or in making sure people noticed you?
2. Why didn't Catilina have money? He had been governor of Africa province for 2 years. Wasn't there loot in Africa?
Hello everyone, my name is David. I live in suburban WashDC, via New York City, 2 modern Romas. I began to be interested in history maybe 10-20 years ago, who remembers. At the very beginning, it was all memorizing names and dates, now I have an internal time-line. I mostly specialize in American History, the Revolutionary period. But hey, Roma and Cicero sure spoke to our FFs, so why not?
Hello everyone. I am Boris from Belgium. I have been reading history books for more than twenty years. I find the stories in them more exciting than fiction. I like reading about any topic in pre-modern history. Recently I have been reading a lot about the late Roman period. I also like to dwell on broader themes like world history and history of technology.It am enjoying the book tremendously. It is very focused on the major changes and does not get too bogged down in details. Also, Mary Beard does not try to press upon us some new and radical ideas, but rather presents a balanced view that combines the latest insights from archeology with a critical reading of the ancient authors.
Rising along the cursus honorum required more than talent alone, it required a lot of money. Money for buying lucrative administrative positions, money for throwing games and for obtaining a military post. Lending was one of the methods by which the old elite kept their hold on power and prevented talented new men from becoming too powerful too quickly. It is only natural that ambitious men would look for an alternative route to power.
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Welcome, David. The founding fathers were definitely interested in Roman history. In fact, during the winter at Valley Forge, the soldiers watched a play about Cato.
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Welcome, Boris. There's a lot about Roman history that almost seems like fiction, particularly the period of the late Republic. I can't think of fictional characters more interesting than Cato, Cicero, Pompey, Caesar and so many others.
Yes, and Addison's Cato was a VERY popular favorite among the FFs. I confess I was not so impressed (mea culpa, what do I know?)
Vicki wrote: "Salvete, Roman history fans. This is Vicki, your discussion moderator checking in from Berkeley, CA. I first got interested in Roman history when I read some Roman mystery novels by Steven Saylor a..."Salve my well-read history buffs! My name is Chris and I am from Southern California. I have a bachelor's degrees in history and political science and a master's in international relations. While my studies have typically emphasized American history and politics, one of my first historical passions is Ancient Rome and Greece. Had I been better at learning Latin, I would have studied classical history more deeply in college.
I am looking forward to this discussion as this book has been on my radar since it first came out in 2015.
Hi everyone! My name is Joella and I live in Missouri. I have always loved history. I got my undergrad degree in history and have worked on, but not completed, my masters in history as well. I usually focus more on early American or Russian history, but I am wanting to expand so I am very excited to read about Ancient Rome. This is my first time reading a book by Mary Beard. I am loving the way she presents the information so far and looking forward to reading more of the book.
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Salve yourself, Christopher. I look forward to your comments on the book.
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Welcome, Joella. I've read a few other books by Beard and she's very informative and easy to read.
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I haven't read it myself, but you can get a PDF of it here, if you're interested.
http://www.constitution.org/addison/c...
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Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History
(last edited Apr 21, 2017 07:18PM)
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Running for office
Discussion Topics:
Beard tells us that it was very expensive to run for office, but doesn't give details. I have read that bribery, i.e. buying votes, was common though illegal. I wonder if you also had to pay for vocal support from other senators and important men. Senators weren't supposed to deal in trade, so I suppose they got money from produce from their lands. I also wonder who was lending to Catiline. We know that Crassus loaned Caesar a lot of money.
1. Do you think that you had to pay for vocal support from other Senators and important men? How did they make their money?
2. Who was lending to Catiline?
Hello all, my name is Mary and I live in South Carolina. Roman history is one of my history enthusiasms. I'm fascinated by the conflicts of the ruling class - never a dull moment.
Vicki, I am so glad you mentioned Addison's play Cato. When it was mentioned in Chernow's book on George Washington I had to read it.
by
Ron Chernow
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Joseph Addison
The History Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
The History of Rome, Books I-VIII (other topics)The Silver Pigs (other topics)
1776 (other topics)
Handbook to Life in Ancient Rome (other topics)
Cato A Tragedy, in Five Acts (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Livy (other topics)Lindsey Davis (other topics)
David McCullough (other topics)
Lesley Adkins (other topics)
Ron Chernow (other topics)
More...
For the week of April 17th - April 23rd, we are reading approximately the first 40 pages of SPQR: A History of Ancient Rome by Mary Beard.
The first week's reading assignment is:
WEEK ONE - April 17th - April 23rd -> Prologue: The History of Rome, and 1. Cicero’s Finest Hour (15 - 52)
We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.
This book is being kicked off April 17th.
We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Borders and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, or on your Kindle.
There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.
Vicki Cline will be moderating this selection.
Welcome,
~Bentley
TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL
REMEMBER NO SPOILERS ON THE WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREADS - ON EACH WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREAD - WE ONLY DISCUSS THE PAGES ASSIGNED OR THE PAGES WHICH WERE COVERED IN PREVIOUS WEEKS. IF YOU GO AHEAD OR WANT TO ENGAGE IN MORE EXPANSIVE DISCUSSION - POST THOSE COMMENTS IN ONE OF THE SPOILER THREADS. THESE CHAPTERS HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION SO WHEN IN DOUBT CHECK WITH THE CHAPTER OVERVIEW AND SUMMARY TO RECALL WHETHER YOUR COMMENTS ARE ASSIGNMENT SPECIFIC. EXAMPLES OF SPOILER THREADS ARE THE GLOSSARY, THE BIBLIOGRAPHY, THE INTRODUCTION AND THE BOOK AS A WHOLE THREADS.
Notes:
It is always a tremendous help when you quote specifically from the book itself and reference the chapter and page numbers when responding. The text itself helps folks know what you are referencing and makes things clear.
Citations:
If an author or book is mentioned other than the book and author being discussed, citations must be included according to our guidelines. Also, when citing other sources, please provide credit where credit is due and/or the link. There is no need to re-cite the author and the book we are discussing however.
Here is the link to the thread titled Mechanics of the Board which will help you with the citations and how to do them.
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/2...
Also, the citation thread:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Introduction Thread:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Table of Contents and Syllabus
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Glossary
Remember there is a glossary thread where ancillary information is placed by the moderator. This is also a thread where additional information can be placed by the group members regarding the subject matter being discussed.
Here is the link:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Bibliography
There is a Bibliography where books cited in the text are posted with proper citations and reviews. We also post the books that the author may have used in his research or in her notes. Please also feel free to add to the Bibliography thread any related books, etc with proper citations or other books either non fiction or historical fiction that relate to the subject matter of the book itself. No self promotion, please.
Here is the link:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Book as a Whole and Final Thoughts - Spoiler Thread
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Link: