A Presumption of Death - SPOILER thread

[Judy]

This is the spoiler thread for the buddy read discussion of A Presumption of Death by Jill Paton Walsh.

Spoilers can be posted openly in this thread.

[Judy]

I've read nearly 200 pages now, and am rather sad that Peter still hasn't appeared! Hoping he will arrive very soon and not just turn up at the end of the book.

[Jill]

I felt like that, but on the whole I think Harriet is doing a good job.

[Judy]

Hooray, he has returned. But I do agree that Harriet does a good job in this.

[Susan]

I found it quite intriguing that Harriet has to deal with the issue on her own - she really does rise to the challenge, doesn't she?

I was less impressed with Helen. She really behaves badly in this novel!

[Judy]

Yes, Harriet certainly does rise to the challenge. And Helen is pretty awful altogether - I think JPW writes the character really well.

I've now finished rereading this book and really enjoyed it - I think I liked this one even better than the previous book (and better than a couple of the Sayers titles in the series!). I did remember some plot twists from a previous read, but don't think I would have guessed them otherwise.

[Susan]

I really enjoyed it too. I am glad I tried them and think they are comparable to the original novels.

[Judy]

I thought the man being scared to go to the dentist was a clever GA style twist - something that seemed like a clue but very hard to think what it might point to! Also the woman obsessed with spies is a clever double bluff...

[Susan]

Yes, I was so pleased for Miss Twitterton! Is that the right name? Some romance during wartime is always a very positive outcome :)

[Jay-me (Janet)]

re Helen - from the earlier books where she was mentioned, I always got the impression that neither Peter or his mother were particularly fond of her.

I enjoyed both of these books, but will have to wait to read the next one The Attenbury Emeralds which I believe was set in 1951. (view spoiler)[ and I believe we find out that Peter's nephew was killed in the War (hide spoiler)]

I have the fourth book already on my kindle.

[Judy]

Yes, it was a lovely touch to give Miss Twitterton a romance after we got to know the character in Busman's Honeymoon!

Hope you manage to get hold of The Attenbury Emeralds, Jay-me - it was my favourite out of these sequels first time around.

[Jill]

It is awful to think, that the thought of being hanged could be preferable to going in flying missions.It really brought home to me just how awful this situation must have been. It also showed the "British stiff upper lip" attitude that the boys/men had to show. Not to let any of the others know that you were scared, but to brave it out and laugh it off.

[Susan]

I have read that the young fliers were treated like stars at the time - every time they walked into a pub everyone brought them a drink and they were cheered, etc. However, the pressure must have been enormous on such young boys.

Of course, that also went for the poor young German boys, who were often sent off with just enough fuel to get them there and back, so that they often crashed on the way home if they were forced off their flight path.

[Jill]

Yes I expect it was the same for all services , as it must be now, except they are no longer treated like stars in their own countries. In fact, some have been persecuted.

[Susan]

Of course, being at war is not the same as peacetime. Emotions are heightened. Plus, those boys were called up, they didn't necessarily want to fight, although they may have had flying experience.

[Judy]

I thought the portrayal of 'Wicked Wendy' was interesting - everyone is dismayed by her behaviour but not by that of her men friends! I would have quite liked a flashback to get to know her a bit better.

[Susan]

Yes, the men were all seen very much as poor, delicate little flowers, being led on, weren't they? I suppose the influx of outsiders into a small village created tension - whether it was those being relocated because of bombing, or land girls or troops stationed nearby. I think the whole period of flux and change was handled really well.

[Jill]

Judy wrote: "I thought the portrayal of 'Wicked Wendy' was interesting - everyone is dismayed by her behaviour but not by that of her men friends! I would have quite liked a flashback to get to know her a bit b..."

I think that, that is one of the charms of the Golden Age books, we never really get to know or like the victims, just enjoy the hunt for the murderer

[Susan]

Yes, victims are often very dislikeable characters, aren't they?

[Judy]

Interesting point, Jill - I can think of some exceptions, like Thou Shell of Death where the victim is an appealing character, but I agree for most of the books. I suppose sometimes we get to know victim number 2 in a book with more than one murder?

[Susan]

In The Case of the Gilded Fly the victim is written off as totally unlikeable and, indeed, it seems as though murdering them seemed such a favour to everyone, you wonder why they even look for the murderer! Of course, the victims are often blackmailers or, as in the case of the Wimsey book, someone the author might like to get out of the way to move the plot along - such as when Mary's fiance is murdered, allowing her to later marry Charles Parker.

[Sandy]

I really liked this book. Life in England during the war was very interesting; rationing played such a big part in their life and the story. Harriet makes a fine lead character, resourceful in the investigation, playful with the children; happiness has improved her character. The various plot threads wove together in a very satisfying way. The only odd note (for me) was that Peter immediately recognized the name of the spy as a pilot who had really died.

I've already ordered the next book from the library. I listen to them and the actor who played Wimsey in the dramatizations with Harriet reads them. He is excellent, of course. I hope Jill Paton Walsh has a long productive life.

[Judy]

Sandy wrote: "The only odd note (for me) was that Peter immediately recognized the name of the spy as a pilot who had really died. ..."

Good point - I hadn't noticed that, but it is clearly a coincidence and so probably against the "rules".

I did also find it a bit odd that they use the name of a real pilot for the spy at all - wouldn't it be safer to create a completely fake identity, especially since people who knew the real man are not all that far away?

Glad to hear you enjoyed this, though, Sandy, and I definitely agree that the war time atmosphere feels very convincing, and that the plot threads go together well.

[Jill]

The way the body of the real pilot was used , they had no option but to use his identity, leaving his papers with the body. The Germans, having acquired a full set of papers , set up the spy. Peter , I believe said it was so unusual for this to have happened, (leaving the full papers with the body), was likely to have recognised the name of this particular airman as it went against normal policy. Thereby being an anomaly , it was likely to have been something that stuck in his mind