GE, Chapters 06 - 07

[Ami]

Tristram wrote: "Ami wrote: "Tristram wrote: "As to Mr. Pumblechook's power of ratiocination, and how it was received by the company, including the colourful detail of the convict's tearing his bedclothes into stri..."

Long term anguish...Good point, Tristram. Mother dear, did in fact, set her son up for disaster.

[Bionic Jean]

Hah! yes, good :)

[Ami]

Jean wrote: "Thanks Ami :) But can there ever be such a thing as a "failed reader"? There sadly are failed authors, who are inept at what they are trying to do (as opposed to good authors who are not recognised..."

Jean wrote: "Thanks Ami :) But can there ever be such a thing as a "failed reader"? There sadly are failed authors, who are inept at what they are trying to do (as opposed to good authors who are not recognised..."

but the closest I can get to this, is thinking that one might fail at choosing what one enjoys
Nice comment here. I like it.

As to Pip's older sister's treatment of him, I'm trying to think of another comparison in Dickens where a child is raised by an older sibling. There must be one ...
I can only reference "DC" because it's the only one I read with the group in its entirety and was thoroughly enriched by the experience. I'm sure there's another example, but David has monopolized my brain! :P

[Peter]

Tristram wrote: "Jean wrote: "As to Pip's older sister's treatment of him, I'm trying to think of another comparison in Dickens where a child is raised by an older sibling. There must be one ..."

I can think of Fl..."

Yes. Certainly Florence. It is interesting, however, that there are not many more examples. Would that be because Dickens wanted his young characters thrust into the adult world like he was, rather than embraced by elder siblings?

[Everyman]

Linda wrote: " I'm going to try this the next time I bake bread as I know all too well the frustrations of having to cut thick slices so as not to tear apart the entire loaf! "

And be sure to get the butter soft -- close to room temperature.

[Everyman]

Jean wrote: "Thanks Ami :) But can there ever be such a thing as a "failed reader"? ."

Well, don't miss the "if" in my comment. If Dickens intended us to laugh at Mrs. Joe, and I saw no humor in her, then I was a failed reader for not understanding his intent. Or is it that he was a failed author? But here, Tristram thought Dickens intended humor and I didn't, so which of us was really the failed reader?

[Everyman]

Tristram wrote: "I can think of Florence Dombey, who practically raised her brother, i.e. she gave him love and understanding when he needed them,."

Yes -- of Mrs. Joe, Mr. Murdstone, and Mr. Dombey, perhaps the last was really the worst because although he didn't punish the child, he basically denied Florence's existence as a person. Isn't it worse for a child to be treated as though they simply didn't exist than to be treated with unkindness -- even with Mr. Murdstone cruelty -- but giving them recognition as people? Is even hate better than total indifference?

[Ami]

Chapter 7

As much as I like Joe Gargery, I am not completely confident in his motives for marrying (choosing to be with) Sister Dear. If I understood it correctly because of Joe's experience with his own mother, who was a victim to her husband's abuse, somebody who was not afforded a good life; he takes it upon himself to shower Mrs. Gargery with kindness in spite of her caustic nature...I speculate he didn't want to see another woman divorced from what life has the capacity to offer regardless of one's circumstances; or taking into consideration Joe's own father, that he really sees the good in everybody? God Bless this man, what a noble and true soul; he adheres to an ideology that obviously works for him, but to ask somebody else, a child, to overlook the shortcomings (if you can even call it that) of an abusive force...Well, I thought it was a little rich for Joe to ask that of Pip.

You don't know how excited I was to meet the illustrious Miss Havisham...Very excited! :)

[Peter]

Ami wrote: "Chapter 7

As much as I like Joe Gargery, I am not completely confident in his motives for marrying (choosing to be with) Sister Dear. If I understood it correctly because of Joe's experience with ..."

Interesting take. Joe is kind, gentle, caring and very forgiving. Each of these virtues is admirable, but as you note it could be a bit much for a child to live at the forge and be expected to share Joe's virtues. It would not be much fun to be either Pip, or Joe, but at least Joe had some history and practice to endure Mrs Joe's particular methods of raising them both.

It could be that down the road Dickens has a plan for all this to unfold into something ...

[Kim]

Tristram wrote: "Jean wrote: "As to Pip's older sister's treatment of him, I'm trying to think of another comparison in Dickens where a child is raised by an older sibling. There must be one ..."

I can think of Fl..."

I thought of Charley in Bleak House. If I'm remembering correctly Charley is Coavinses' daughter, and when her father dies she takes care of her younger brothers and sisters - I can't remember how many there were.

[Bionic Jean]

Oh yes! Well done Kim - I'd forgotten Charley! I always felt rather sorry for Coavinses too. He was just as hardworking as Joe, and with as strong a sense of duty to his family, but got short shrift from many just because his job was unpopular.

[Tristram]

Everyman wrote: "Tristram wrote: "I can think of Florence Dombey, who practically raised her brother, i.e. she gave him love and understanding when he needed them,."

Yes -- of Mrs. Joe, Mr. Murdstone, and Mr. Domb..."

Hmmm, if, as a child I had to make a choice between being ignored or spanked in a gruesome way, I'd rather have my backside take the decision ;-)

[Tristram]

Peter wrote: "It would not be much fun to be either Pip, or Joe"

Actually, I would not really mind that much being Joe: He has quite a respected position in his village, being the smith, and his craft would be one that I could actually like - either that or being a carpenter. He does not seem to suffer poverty or even the need to make ends meet but is apparently well-to-do. As to living with Mrs. Joe, if I had Joe's angelic temper, I would probably even find pleasure in such a wife, who - after all - is not really mean but rather difficult.

[Kim]

Tristram wrote: "Peter wrote: "It would not be much fun to be either Pip, or Joe"

Actually, I would not really mind that much being Joe: He has quite a respected position in his village, being the smith, and his c..."

I'd rather be him than anyone else in the book I can think of.

[Everyman]

Tristram wrote: "He does not seem to suffer poverty or even the need to make ends meet but is apparently well-to-do."

If you look at the photos of the house that Dickens based Joe's forge on, it does look quite prosperous for a workingman of the age.

https://www.lang.nagoya-u.ac.jp/~mats...

[Tristram]

Yes, it's a spick and span building for its day and age, isn't it? So being Joe would not have been the worst thing. There's maybe one other person whose identity I would choose if I had to be one of the characters in the book, and that is Wemmick! I will not say why, because firstly it is so obvious and secondly we shouldn't be talking about Wemmick in this thread.