The Old Curiosity Club discussion
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And how come we..."
You can say that again: My children will invariably fall and injure themselves or come down with a high temperature or cut their feet in glass on weekends, or late at night. They will also often do this when we are on holiday where I don't know any good doctors. My son will also always have to throw up in the waiting area of the airport where they rarely have paper bags, and he will do so without prior notice. But still, what would my life be like without those ... wonderful ... children?
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One of the funniest episodes, indeed - especially because of Frank!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow_9M...
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At least with people who are not completely out of their minds :-)
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I have completely banned cell phones from my classes, not even for looking up words - simply on the grounds that students are not allowed to use cell phones during tests, either. In fact, they have to put their cell phones and their bags up in the front of the room and then sit their exams with only something to write and some water on their tables. Neither do I use cell phones for my classes but stick to - when using them makes sense - computers. My students were a bit surprised at first, but have quickly grown used to it since I pointed out to them all the negative aspects of cell phones in class and left them no choice anyway.
I also wonder why nobody has yet thought of banning cell phones and smartphones in public buildings - the way they did it with smoking - when it is clear that these useless gadgets can cause cancer.
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I told my students what I think of that kind of thing, and they all keep their devices in their bags. Some of the young teachers I train, however, had to be told several times that smartphones have a button which enables their users to silence them so that we will not be delighted with a whistle whenever some dolt sends them a message on Whatsapp.
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What sort of a cruel, unfeeling monster are you? Cutting your students off from their text, Facebook, Twitter for a whole class period? If you tried that in the US you would be sued for imposing cruel and unusual punishment on your students.
Kim wrote: "Congratulations to you and your family Mary Lou. I'll be praying for you. As for Noddy Boffin, I'm still thinking about that one. I know a lady, one of my doctors, who has nieces and nephews named ..."I was just reading the posts over in Mr. Jagger's office about our future reading schedule, and it dawned on me that the group hasn't read "Our Mutual Friend" yet. For those who aren't aware (and might think I'm a little peculiar), Noddy Boffin is a character from that wonderful book. For those of you who already knew the origin of that delightful name, you probably also know -without a shadow of a doubt - that I AM a little peculiar.
Mary Lou wrote: "I've been putting off mentioning it, but will now announce that my other daughter is pregnant again!"Oh, congratulations Mary Lou!! That is fabulous news. I'm so happy for you, and I wish your daughter a smooth pregnancy. :)
Jean wrote: "I think you must all have put a curse on our bathroom fixtures. The pipe under the bathroom washbasin has just snapped through."Oh Jean! What a time to have that happen, but I'm glad you got it fixed soon enough. And what is it with plumbing and after hours? This past winter we had a pipe in our garage freeze, only to realize it when I woke up at 2 am to an odd sound, which we traced to the water pipes as the weather had warmed and caused the pipe to burst. It happened to be out in our garage (it's detached and behind the house) to find the overhead pipe to the bathroom burst and water already inches deep. So, I can totally sympathize!
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What sort of a cruel, unfeeling monster are you? Cutting your students off from their text, Facebook, Twitter for a whole class period? If you tried that in the US you would be sued for imposing cruel and unusual punishment on your student."
Reading that, I think something like that happened here not long ago although I don't think it got to the suing the school stage. They made a rule that there could be no cell phones in the classrooms and the parents went crazy - my sister was one of the parents which is why I remember it at all. I had to listen to her yelling about this horrible punishment the school had unwisely tried to do. After all, what would happen if there was an emergency and the students didn't even have a cell phone to call 911 with? Stuff like that. I can't remember how it all worked out and I'd hate to ask my crazy sister and listen to it all over again.
And thinking of this same niece, some time ago she asked me a question about something she was learning in school and I answered her question. Nothing hard about that. But she was amazed that I knew this (whatever it was) and asked how I knew it. I told her from learning it when I was in school and she said they just learned it and she can't remember a thing about it. I then asked her how long she spent in the library looking it all up in the text books and she said they don't even have a library anymore they just looked it up on their smartphones or their computers. Apparently it isn't as easy to learn something when you are doing it from your phone. And not having a library in the school is awful. And crazy.
Kim wrote: "she said they don't even have a library anymore they just looked it up on their smartphones or their computers. Apparently it isn't as easy to learn something when you are doing it from your phone. And not having a library in the school is awful. And crazy. "This makes me so very sad. :-(
Everyman wrote: "What sort of a cruel, unfeeling monster are you? Cutting your students off from their text, Facebook, Twitter for a whole class period..."That's exactly how they view it! Some of these kids are seriously addicted to their phones. I've noticed a terrible correlation between the level of addiction and their level of illiteracy. I teach a remedial class of students who have failed the state test multiple times. Their level of addiction is markedly higher than those students in the regular classes, and that's saying a lot. Some of those remedial students will take a zero on a major grade assignment if it means being parted from their phone for the class period.
At my school, there are teachers (myself included) who try to ban phones in their classrooms, but it is a losing battle. The school has given the students permission to use their phones during lunch and passing periods, so they are allowed to be on their phones until the bell rings. Also, each individual teacher decides the level of usage in their own class, so you will have kids coming into your class after having been allowed to be on their phone in their previous three classes. It is a constant battle, and it just wears you down.
Kim wrote: "And not having a library in the school is awful. And crazy. ..."Thankfully, we haven't reached that point yet. The interesting thing is that library science is apparently encompassing technology. A fellow teacher is taking classes right now to get her master's in library science, and her classes have been all about technology. Our school librarian is also in charge of a lot of the technological devices and programs the kids use for research and other methods of information gathering and exchange.
Most of you probably already knew this, but I just found it out recently. There's a certain symmetry to it, I suppose!
Cell phones and no libraries. That makes me sad too. :(My son has a phone for emergencies, but it's a flip phone that is powered off and stays in his backpack while at school, and it's not a smartphone with all the apps. He used it one time to let me know that his school bus had been in an accident, so we heard from him before we heard from the school district. And then he has it at home when he is at home alone periodically since we don't have a landline anymore.
Luckily, my kids' school still has a nice library and they check out books each week, but they do have access to books on ipads at school where they can find books at their specific reading level. Although they only do that at school because other than our desktop computer, we have no portable devices to read books on at home. And I do make it a point to take the kids to the library every two or three weeks to check out stacks of books, and to show them how to use the online catalog to find books, and how to actually find them in the library!
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There is plenty of research showing that people learn and remember better from reading real books than from reading on a computer or cell phone.
There's a Future Learn class going on right now on "Reading in the Digital Age." Just started week 3, so plenty of time to join in of people want to. (Free, just do the audit rather than the pay option, unless you want the pay option.)
https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/r...
Everyman wrote: "There is plenty of research showing that people learn and remember better from reading real books than from reading on a computer or cell phone."I'm not surprised. I find that I remember specific passages by which side of the page they were on, near the top or bottom, how far into the book the passage was by feeling the weight of the amount of pages in my left hand versus the right hand, and sometimes I can see a "snapshot" of the passage on the page when remembering it.
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Honestly? That is actually the least cruel thing I do to my students :-)
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A brilliant invention that keeps ennervating and stupid people from phoning you by making them type messages that you will never read.
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Makes me rather angry, actually. I have got another rule in my classes - that when students write term papers and list their sources, only a quarter of them can be Internet sources; the others have to be written books or essays.
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I think that that is very important. My son is 9 years old now and still has no cell phone but a library card, which he uses every Friday after his handball practice to go to the library and get something to read. Sometimes he also borrows a DVD (although I must say I find it very strange for a library to have DVDs), and I am quite happy that he has taken such an interest in reading.
I can imagine that learning from books is more efficient than learning from the screen, because it's more haptic and "real" after all. You can underline passages, and put yellow post-its into the pages, and you really see (from the book) that you have read and digested it. Also writing down what you want to keep in mind and explaining it to others helps a lot.
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My daughters take their entire small elementary school* on a library walk every Monday down to the public library where the students all have library cards (new students without cards get them their first Monday) and check out piles of books. Of course there are plenty of books in the school, too, but the library walk is still a vital part of impressing the value of reading from kindergarten on.
The librarians love it when they come in and crowd the children's section (the 4th to 6th grade students usually in the teen or even adult sections) with cries of pleasure at the new books they're finding and old favorites they're rediscovering with joy. Fortunately our library has no limit on the number of items a patron can take out, so they each emerge with piles of books for DEAR. DEAR is a daily period in the school which stands for Drop Everything And Read in which all other activities stop and everybody sits or lies down with a book and reads, the very youngest pre-readers being read to, but pretty soon the passion for reading on their own as the older students are doing takes them over and they learn to read so they can be part of the joy.
The public school never takes their classes to the public library (and their in-school library isn't very strong), and there are elementary school children there who have never been to the library, which I think is sad. But of course pleasure reading isn't something that the standardized tests test for so the teachers don't dare take time out from their teaching for just reading for pleasure.
* Okay, you grammar purists, no, the building doesn't go on a walk, the students do, and if you didn't understand that then you need to focus more on meaning than grammar!
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Makes me rather angry, actually. I have got another rule in my classes - that when students write term papers and list their sources, only a quarter of them ca..."
Just thinking about all this makes me more and more angry. The kids here, the ones in high school anyway, can even take their tests at home on the computer and somehow or another send it to the teacher from their home. Not all of the teachers let them but others are fine with it. Well, I guess they're fine with it they let them do it. Each time my niece is taking a "test" from home I'm annoyed. How do they know they aren't just looking up the answers on the internet at home? One thing I've found with the illustrations, you can find just about anything on the internet.
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Don't ever try to get a job in an American public school. You're obviously completely unsuited to American public education.
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That's for sure.
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Madness is the consequence of wisdom and maturity.
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Makes me rather angry, actually. I have got another rule in my classes - that when students write term papers and list their sources, only a q..."
Taking tests at home? Luckily, this silly idea has not occurred to anyone here as yet, and this is strange because certain parties here in Germany are very susceptible to stupid ideas.
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What about her?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjHWi...
Tristram wrote: "Taking tests at home? Luckily, this silly idea has not occurred to anyone here as yet, and this is strange because certain parties here in Germany are very susceptible to stupid ideas.."It sounds bizarre, but nowadays there are so many university classes online (that vary enormously in quality) that assess students in that particular fashion. It is complex to design online assessments. One has to create unique comparative writing assignments that are impossible to look up online. Standard tests just don't cut it unless one assumes that it is an open book test situation. Perhaps the future just promises Coursera type classes in education?
Kim wrote: "Another thing that made me angry; my grandchildren - 7 & 8 years old - began telling me how much they liked going to the library. They loved when library time would come at school and they loved go..."Loved your story Kim as I recognized myself in your reaction. One gets fired up about reading books!
My son (when he was 11) started to bring home books from the library at his middle school. I thought that was wonderful until I discovered that they were comic books! Lately (being 13 ow he has become a great reader and is indoctrinated by the classics and our home library) he searches for "better" books on the school's library shelves. They only had one novel by Dickens! It was "Oliver Twist" in an abridged Puffin edition! Heresy!!!! After digging deeper into this matter I have discovered that the school's library barely has any classics at all on their shelves. However, the librarian seems euphoric when one of those books are checked out! Now, this is in a public school system in California that is ranked very highly in the state. *sighs deeply*
Everyman wrote: "There's a Future Learn class going on right now on "Reading in the Digital Age." Just started week 3, so plenty of time to join in of people want to. (Free, just do the audit rather than the pay option, unless you want the pay option.) https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/r..."
Thanks Everyman! That looks like an interesting course in terms of how reading is changing in the digital era. Are you by any chance taking it? I read up on "distant reading" after examining the course page. A peculiar concept that I have a hard time to wrap my mind around:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/26/boo...
Hello allI'm Pamela from England, married with 2 grown up sons and a crazy beagle. I worked in IT for 30 years but have just given up work to follow a dream and am studying for a Masters in Translation (Italian and French into English). Brave or foolish, who knows!
I love Dickens despite having to dissect Oliver Twist at school, and am slowly working my way through all his works, with 5 or 6 left to go. However, this has taken me so long that a few rereads will also be welcome. I'll probably join you for your next book, but will be reading all the comments and thoughts in the meantime.
Welcome Pamela! You're in good company here for a fellow Dickens enthusiast. I too am one of the English members of "The Old Curiosities" :)
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Pamela wrote: "Hello allI'm Pamela from England, married with 2 (almost) grown up sons and a crazy beagle. I worked in IT for 30 years but have just given up work to follow a dream and am studying for a Masters..."
Hi Pamela! I'm glad you found your way here! :)
Thanks all for the welcome. Hi Haaze, yes I'm here and it's looking like a great place :)
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What about her?."
As long as her policy was clear, good for her.
Kim wrote: "So I said fine, and when they realized I was really leaving the store without purchasing anything at all they became all to willing to look at books, but I was too mad by then and didn't go back. Talking about this makes me mad all over again."I have had the same thing happen to me when I've taken my kids to Half Price Books which also sells used movies, games, small trinkets. The kids make a beeline to the stuffed animals and craft kits and little trinkets. I try to tell myself that at some level, kids will be kids and that stuff does interest them. Anyway, that's why I favor the library trips more, then they do come home with stacks of books. But, I've been in your shoes, Kim, and had that feeling of being upset when they don't make a beeline to the books instead.
Everyman wrote: " DEAR is a daily period in the school which stands for Drop Everything And Read in which all other activities stop and everybody sits or lies down with a book and reads"That sounds great! My son has had several "parties" in the past where the class has won (whatever the challenge was, I'm not sure) a Reading Day where the kids are allowed to bring in pillows and small blankets and however many books they want. And then the entire day is lounging around the classroom reading all day, except when they go to lunch or music or other specialist periods.
Pamela wrote: "Hello allI'm Pamela from England, married with 2 grown up sons and a crazy beagle.
Welcome Pamela! :)
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It sounds bizarre, but nowadays there are so many university classes online (that vary enormously in quality) that assess students in that particular fashion. It is complex to design online assessments."
The question becomes, for me, did the students master the material. If I think I can deduce that from a take-home exam, then good. What, really, is the difference between a take-home exam and a paper that the students write at home, if the test is properly designed?
Fact-based tests, of course, don't work well for take home because it's too easy to look up the answers. But analytical questions can be well designed for take home. And if you know your students' writing styles, and you should be the midterm, you can easily tell when they are just copying from the Internet.
Though I admit it was easier in my day where there was no Internet to worry about and the main worry was whether they were getting together somewhere and copying from each other.
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I am, though I'm well behind. But since I'm not taking it for credit, and don't participate in the discussions (way too many posts and most of the uninteresting and no way to follow the interesting posters), I don't worry. I'll get through the material some day!
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I'm Pamela from England, married with 2 grown up sons and a crazy beagle. I worked in IT for 30 years but have just given up work to follow a dream and am studying for a Masters in Trans..."
Hi Pam,
Welcome to the Old Curiosity Club! I hope you have already read some of our posts and got an idea of how slowly we are proceeding. So if you join our discussions, you'll never be under pressure to keep up ;-) It may well be that before starting with our next novel, we will put in some shorter works, which is an even better opportunity to get into active discussion.
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What about her?."
As long as her po..."
I guess it would have been very difficult for her to make her policy clear. Imagine she had said, "Whenever one of you uses their cell phone during my lecture, I will grab it and smash it onto the ground like mad", nobody would probably have believed her. With a policy like that, the proof of the pudding lies in the eating :-)
The Old Curiosity Club
Books mentioned in this topic
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Charles Dickens (other topics)Bryan Kozlowski (other topics)
Thomas Hardy (other topics)
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Congratulations to your daughter Mary Lou, whatever the bairn is eventually n..."
Thank you, Jean. We've no crystal balls, have we? I will, however, throw "dinky blossom cute-lips" into the pool of options. It will make "Letitia" seem relatively mainstream. :-) Of course, if it's a boy and the cat isn't using it, I'm still pushing for Noddy Boffin.