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The Random Talk Thread: Today's topic: Collaborative Book Marketing
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Yes. Well if we want to be bestsellers (and who doesn't?) atleast now we have an idea of what sort of numbers we would need to move, right?
Alex wrote: "This is very interesting information, it certainly encourages me because when I was published years ago I had one book at hit the 5,000-10,000 sales in a year and another that did 20,000 plus in 2 ..."Wow. Those are really good numbers. You would fall under "Solid seller" and "high midlister"!
Since you're all in here...I'm planning to send my book to my editor on Feb 15. Exciting, :)
I'll be sending it to four betareaders around that time as well.
Then promo will start. The amount that I'll invest will depend on the feedback that I get.
If my betas tell me: OMG, I LOVED IT
Then:
I will target romance blogs and maybe do 1 blog tour.
But I'm considering selling the book for (gulp) 0.99 for a while.
I'm thinking long term here.
It's not about having 1 succesful book, it's about having a succesful writing career.
If I don't make a lot of money on Book 1, but manage to build a solid fanbase, that means I could have a more succesful launch for Book 2.
And if it does really well at 0.99, I could even forget about buildung a fanbase and the effect on book 2 and bump the price of book 1 up.
What do you all think?
Alex wrote: "It's basically how I'm working, so I think you have a good plan, and I reckon your betas will love the book."They better. If they're not into it, then I just won't publish.
You've lowered your book price? Has it made a difference or is it too soon to tell?
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I have been forced to raise the price on my newer books (children's) because of their length- I'm talking about paperbacks here. I sell a minimal amount of Kindles. The price point was raised as my new historical series was much longer than the cultural series. Subsequently, I sell much less of them that the other less expensive series. However, it's also newer and hasn't developed a fan base yet.
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Carole wrote: "Yep, the ego thing. Michael felt sometimes like we were cheapening his books, especially after a couple of producers called and he won so many awards. But none of those things actually added to the..."Yes, that's how I feel too.
I've bought Romance novels all my life.
I know what I pay attention to when buying: "Good cover, interesting blurb".
After that it's: how much is it?
I can't remember how many times I've said to myself, "Oh it's only a dollar, let me get this."
I want to write a book that is worth 9.99 yet offer it at 0.99 so that after people are done reading, they're like: "This book was such a bargain! I would have paid so much more than a dollar."
Then I'll bump prices to 2.99 :D
Alex, you're so right! I didn't even think about that. Yes, another argument in favor of starting low.Plus you know.. It might be a foolish thought.. but I'd better build my way up then have to lower my price later.
It's basic economics right? This works on a supply and demand basis. I will start low and then increase my price if the demand for the book increases as well until I reach that equilibrium point.
Mark Dawson, who's featured in Forbes for his ability to move his books, believes that you should give your first book away - but sell it for an email address. Say you managed to get 10,000 people to download your book for free, and half of them read it and liked it, then when you publish the next book, you email them and boom, there's 5,000 sales.
There is one catch though: People can look at a book priced at 0.99 and think it has to be shit, otherwise the author wouldn't be selling it at that price. Which is why I'm working really hard to present a book that has a good cover, a good blurb and also, that my website and Facebook look professional so that even if readers think "0.99? It will probably suck!" their next thought is: "but damn that's a great cover/blurb".
C.L. wrote: "Mark Dawson, who's featured in Forbes for his ability to move his books, believes that you should give your first book away - but sell it for an email address. Say you managed to get 10,000 people ..."That's not a bad idea! If I had known this before, I probably would have made my first book a novella and given it away for free in exchange for emails. Its too late now =/
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This part is a about a hypothetical book.
I love going to the supermarket. I love the cookie aisle. The minute I see a new package, I am attracted to it- It doesn't matter what the cookies are made of- if the package looks good and I keep hearing the annoying commercial for it- I'm gonna buy it. My point is, a lot of this is the packaging. If a cover looks good, that's the first thing that will attract the buyer, then the blurb, then all the reviews, the accolades saying it was the best thing ever. So, they still might not buy it. Next, everywhere the person looks, that name, the book is popping up. Soon, everyone is talking about it, at the water cooler, at the cookie aisle, at the pet groomer. Panic sets in- I'm missing something. I have to see what everyone is talking about. I don't want to feel like an idiot or out of touch. The relief that you've bought it, you haven't been left out. You nod with understanding when you see a person reading that book with the box of cookies next to them. The book isn't even good, The cookies are horrible. It doesn't matter. Consumers will buy it because they've been compelled. How else can you account for so much of the crap out there?
So, indies that is what we are up against. Without the budget to overwhelm and influence consumers, I have found making it as close to free to get them used to you is the next best thing.
CL
I want to add, I am the minority in my partnership with this idea. But that's okay. I also think Dawson has the right idea!
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R.L. wrote: "Hmmm now this has me thinking.... I have my book set to preorder at 2.99, Amazon suggested price and I've already gotten a few sales (wink to some on this thread) and wondering if I should change t..."Yes, if someone has pre ordered something and you lower the price at launch, they'll pay the lower price.
Carole wrote: "It's never too late. Once people read your book, you will get a following and they will spread the word about you. And we will all help!!!!This part is a about a hypothetical book.
I love going t..."
Exactly Carole! Blurb and representation. For example if I bought your book, chances are that after I finished reading it I will look up your book, I might visit your website. Now if I go there and it's a mess? Well that's a complete turn off for me as a buyer.
We're not only selling books, we're selling ourselves at the same time.
Read another great article that I thought I'd share:1) 1) If you want mainstream reviews, make “the package” (industry speak for “the book”) as professional looking as possible. One rule of thumb is to use cream colored “stock” (industry speak for “paper”) because bright white stock signals short-run digital printing, in other words: self-published.
2) Make sure you begin your publicity and review outreach at least four months before your chosen on sale date. Pamela Paul, the editor of The New York Times Book Review, says that one way she chooses titles for review is by reading the starred reviews in the trades like PW, Kirkus, and Library Journal. Those trades will only consider books for review if they are received some four months in advance of the on sale date.
4) Do lots of early reader giveaways. You can run them for free on Goodreads and LibraryThing and lots of bloggers are open to covering your book in exchange for a few free copies to run contests for their readers. Start this at least 3 months prior to on sale.
5) Treat your book like a business. No one else is going to care about your book more than you are. Put your best foot forward and invest in your own success!
:)
http://februarymedia.net/what-it-take...
Alex wrote: "While this is great information, for a lot of indies it isn't possible to do these things months ahead of release because the book simply isn't available. Indies can't afford to have a book sittin..."
Hmm I have to disagree with you on that. Most indies have some sort of income coming in while their working to publish a book. It's a choice between a hurried release that might not yield result and planning a more structured launch that could lead to more success. You can put it out as early as you can, but if it still takes months to just begin selling than you might as well have taken those months and organized a more lengthy promotional campaign.
Now I won't be doing this either because, well, I'm impatient lol, but I defnitely thinks that it pays off to wait for that Kirkus review, or until you build that social media presence.
Alexis wrote: "That's not a bad idea! If I had known this before, I probably would have made my first book a novella and given it away for free in exchange for emails. Its too late now =/ "
Def not too late. Mark Dawson has a big backlog of books now, and he gets new subscribers on Facebook by advertising two free books. He says that the average subscriber goes on to buy eight more of his books.
Re: waiting to release - I did this. I could afford to wait because the book wasn't exactly going to be a money maker anyway, and it's not like my next mortgage was relying on it. Better to do it right. So I sent paper ARCs three months in advance. That's how I landed the review from Foreword! And considering the exposure that should get me, plus the social proof from using a quote from the review in my advertising, I would call that well worth the wait. Ditto for listing it on Netgalley in advance - I launched with 15 or 20 reviews already on Goodreads.
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I always do Kirkus and Foreword, but they take six to eight weeks to get the review done- so I do them at the same time I do my mailing. I did one book- The Flip through Reader's Views- releasing arc's first. No one put up reviews and I hated waiting, so I released it early anyway.
Julie does a lot of teasing on Facebook, a cover reveal, parties that kind of stuff to stir up interest. I always send a promotional gift when I do a mailing- an antique key on a keychain for Stillwell (about a haunted house), broomstick pen and sticky notes for Witches, blow up globes for me, printed post cards for my cultural series. You can buy inexpensive stuff on 4 imprint that will make your book stand out from the rest. I have also printed up bookmarks to give a way.
RL you can start it at 2.99 and see if people bite. If you see your numbers slipping- lower the price and run it as a special on a one of those blogs that send emails to everyone. I use Online Book club- but there are a ton of them.
I have an idea/ suggestion. Lately, I've read a lot of posts about members that would like to do some advertising but state that advertising is not on their list of financial priorities. So, I was thinking. How about sharing the cost of advertising with a fellow writer or two? Let me give you an example: I write multicultural romance novels. So do two author members of this group: Aislinn and R.L. I know of a website that offers a 600x400 space for 45 dollars a month, which is very affordable. However it becomes even more affordable when you split that by 3.
The best thing? The website allows you to upload a gif so you could feature one book by each author and then one final image that leads to a (free) wordpress site on which you will add amazon links and blurbs for the books featured in the gif.
For example:
(P.S. This is a gif I made in 5 seconds using a free app. It moves way too fast and the quality is extremely sucky. It's just an example!)
Concluding, lol. I guess that's my idea. Find an author or two that write the same genre as you do, get a free Paypal account and a free wordpress website and your little group can tackle advertising opportunities together!
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Carole wrote: "This is a great article. I feel like anytime we talk about what books could be doing, financially on the other threads, the book police come out and burn up the threads . Makes me feel like I'm stu..."Lol comment of the year!! You're awesome :)
Carole wrote: "I think that's a brilliant idea, Alexis. I think there are lots of ways to be creative with advertising. I am meeting with the people at Publisher's Weekly and it on the agenda to talk about ad sha..."Thanks Carole!
Ohh, that'd be great too. What are their prices like now?
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The radio show I am working in has offered a permanent ad for a flat fee of 25 dollars that will link an author's site to the blog for good. I think it's an excellent deal- it's open to anybody who wants it.
I have spoken to the editor of Bookworks as well. There are certain places people need to see your book- these are the type of places. It sort of legitimizes it. Even if you are not getting a review out of it (and I always urge you to send a book in for one of those reviews- PW doesn't charge) the more people see your title, name and in a respected magazine- the more they see you as a professional. (IMO). This is not how I see indies- but I think how the world sees us.
As indies we are fighting those perceptions all the time.
Carole wrote: "It varies from issue to issue- size of the ad- that sort of thing. I spoke with the publisher and suggest they do a full page where indies can "rent" a small spot for their book cover. He said he'd..."I visited Bookworks for the first time ever and guess what's the first thing that catched my eye:
An article about Collaborative Book Marketing. Lol!
"While not a necessarily new, this is one of the book marketing trends I think you’re going to start seeing a lot more of this in 2017. In the past, we’ve seen authors do combo book bundles—books bundled together from a variety of authors. In addition to that, I think we will see more collaborative marketing efforts such as bundled freebies, samplers, and joint ads. There is power in numbers and this year, more than ever, we’re going to start seeing that this type of networking is no longer an option, but a necessity."
https://www.bookworks.com/2017/02/7-b...
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Did you catch my son's article on there? I'm a proud Mama!!! https://www.bookworks.com/2017/02/wri...
Carole wrote: "I've been talking with them for over a year about it. I first suggested it to my PW advertising rep. He took it to Bookworks and they are trying to set it up. Bookworks has asked me to be a moderat..."So my brilliant idea is an old idea to you? :p Just kidding.
I think they should start following your advice. Collaborative Book Marketing will be the new it-thing of 2017.
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Thats an amazing idea. My other business has done similar things over the years. Can be pricey when it's just a couple of people. Obviously cheaper with more involved.
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Carole wrote: "Let's set it up. So it's like one giant promotion? I don't know how to do anything beyond minimal cut and paste- so someone has to set it up. If you give me an idea of how- I can get Brit on it."I volunteer banner making services. One thing I always wished other promotions would do is split the books into different genres. I don't really like browsing through countless of books, all different, until I reach a romance. I think the front page should list all genres and then each genre should have its own subpage.
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Yes, that's a good idea too!
I'm truly allergic to giving a book away for free at the moment. Mine's only a couple of quid as it is.
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So, I think what you are saying is dividing them into genre- I love that- what else would you need- a cover, the link, a blurb?
I think we should do it four times a year- what are your thoughts?
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Carole wrote: "My resources are here for you guys- I certainly don't know how to use most of them.So, I think what you are saying is dividing them into genre- I love that- what else would you need- a cover, the ..."
I, personally, think twice a year. I think if you do it too much it becomes too common. But that's just me.
But take for example that link that Alex posted.
Ooh, I'm excited.
Wait right here.
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So, I think what you are saying is dividing them into genre- I love that- what else would you need..."
lol Alexis!
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I agree with including books that are more than 99c, I've disliked the hard time you have finding places to ..."
Exactly Alex I thought I was the only one who felt that way. And Alexis is Queen of banners for sure. I can't wait to see whats she's cooking up now
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So PW got back to me and said a full page is 2000 dollars. They can only put 8 book covers on the page- so I think it's out of the question.
I have taken full page ads in PW and it is the right exposure so I will place this out there. If anyone wants to fill up the other four spots- I will take four- but I want to stress again, my experience with ads is you have to be seen a few times to make a difference. I usually take one full page once a year- but I'm willing to add this one to my budget if there are four others out there who want to do it.
That being said- the radio station I am working with is offering one time charge of 25 dollars for a permanent ad on their blog radio site. As far as I understand, every time the blog spot is aired, the ad will flash and take people to your website or Amazon (Not sure- I never understand these things until I do them.)
I have no idea what my reach is, but according to them it's hundreds of stations. I seriously doubt I have a following, but according to them I am their second most popular show.
I am not asking for you to do an ad- Please understand- I don't need it for me- but I think it's a good deal and I have taken ads for four of the different genre I promote. I am merely sharing information that I think may be a good deal.
This topic has been frozen by the moderator. No new comments can be posted.
I'll get us started with my find of the day: this reddit thread regarding book sales
https://www.reddit.com/r/writing/comm...
Copied and pasted the comment from a Bestselling author and contirbutor in the thread above, below
There is, actually. It's called bookscan, and is generally only available to insiders. (But if you can find someone with access, you can track books back for two decades of sales info.)
Problem is, it doesn't track ebooks. (Because Amazon doesn't release them.) I wish this info were more public too, personally. But I can try to guess a kind of rough estimate, based on what I've seen. (This is for first year ebook/hardcover combined, and only applies to fiction books, and not those by a celebrity.)
On the chopping block: 5k (This is a book that did modestly well, but is probably overall losing money for the publisher. Some would keep publishing an author at this level, depending on expectations of growth, award recognition, or niche interest.)
Solid seller: 5k-10k (This is a book most publishers will always be pleased with, and will continue to pay a decent advance for. This author may not make a healthy living on their book unless they can do more than one a year, but will probably always have a writing career.)
High midlister:10k-20k (This is an author who is well known in their genre, is a dependable seller, and has a dedicated--but small-fanbase. If you can find a writer with a number of books on the shelf, but they don't chart often on the NYT list with new books, they are probably in this category.)
Genre Bestseller: 20k-50k (This is a book that charts on the bestseller lists without hitting the #1 spot. Authors who hit this consistently set trends in the industry, are well known in their genres, and are pulling low six figure advances. Breaking out of this level and into the next takes serious luck, even in a field which already requires a lot of luck.)
Dominant Genre Bestseller: 50k-300k (These are the books that hit #1 on the bestseller list. Authors who do this consistently with each new book are generally at the top of their field, and are probably what you consider "super popular" in your post. But they--we, as this is where I am--are small potatoes compared to the next levels.)
Breakout Bestseller: 300k-1mil (These are books that "break out" of their genre, or are the top of larger genres, like thrillers. Teen books with a lot of momentum can hit here too. Books in this category sell in airports or walmarts to the general public for months, as opposed to those in the category below, which sell really, really well for one week--but only because fans buy their books week one, rather than waiting. I've outsold Dan Brown and John Grisham...for one week. The next week, they trounced me.)
Movie Books: 1-5mil (These are books from one of the other categories that have a film come out recently. Also, the tail end of the breakout bestsellers and the beginnings of phenomenon books. It gets really blurry in here as we're dealing with such large swaths of numbers. Game of Thrones books are in here, I believe. Note that they basically jumped over the category between, which often happens in sf/f when you get a film or tv show.)
Phenomenon books: 5-20+mil (These are books that somehow SUPER break the mold, for reasons nobody really understands. DaVinci Code. Harry Potter. Twilight.)
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Personally, I'd be GLORIOUSLY HAPPY if I manage to reach "Chopping block" status. I'll even add it to my author name. "CHOPPING BLOCK BESTSELLING AUTHOR ALEXIS WILLS"
Lol