Q&A with Josh Lanyon discussion
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All's Fair re-read challenge: Fair Game
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I, too, am so glad you did! It's lovely to have you here. :-)
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I hear you. :-) Fair Game was one of my very first audio books. In fact, if I remember correctly Fair Game was THE reason I joined Audible in the first place.
I wonder if it was the very first Josh Lanyon audio book ever published? Or which one was that?
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:-D
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I *think* this is my fourth or fifth reread of Fair Game. Maybe. The thing about Josh's books — that doesn't happen with many authors — is that her books get better and better with each read. Which certainly is a sign of excellent writing in so many levels.
So, I'm enjoying so very much starting this reread and rediscovering wonderful things that I've almost forgotten since the last time. For example, I had managed to forgot some of the traits of Elliot's neighbor Steven's character. :-)
I'm currently in chapter three in the middle of meeting Tucker in person for the first time. Ha! I love how Elliot is having such a vivid memory of the hot sex with Tucker when the man in question enters the room. Emptying the room of half the oxygen. :-D :-D :-D
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I think this is my third (maybe fourth) round with the audiobook, more than that with the book. Fair Game is also the book I've most often mentioned or recommended to friends interested in mysteries who are curious about this genre. In retrospect, it's an interesting choice. In part, it was because I thought it was a stand-alone for some time, so less of a commitment to get that initial taste. In part, perhaps because the mystery storyline is closest to the "serious" mysteries I've read (Reginald Hill, P.D. James, Martha Grimes), if that makes any sense.
And in part, due to its location, although that's the part that makes this a sometimes uncomfortable read. My eldest graduated in 2008 from a particular small liberal arts university in Tacoma that has the same type of architecture, the chapel, the ceramics building, the arboretum, tennis courts, etc. No nearby lake however. In fact, my daughter took "Elliot's" western films class. (She did not however wheedle an exception for an assignment deadline.) : ) But all this means that I can't distance myself from the murders in this story the way that's possible in some other stories. On the other hand, it's nice to have personal experience of that campus, the art museum, and that part of the country.
I forgot all about Steven. Poor chap. Yeah, he was a creepy stalker but he didn't deserve that.
On the first reading, I just could not imagine how Josh was going to turn Tucker into the love interest. His past behavior to Elliot was reprehensible. Despicable. Unforgivable. At least according to Elliot’s memories... And that was the key, of course. I'm sure it wasn’t arbitrary that Josh made Elliot a historian, because this is a story about revisionist history.
The deliberate forgetting, the distortion of memories, the self-deception, the lies we tell ourselves just so we'll be able to carry on in the aftermath of emotional devastation... This is something I’ve been through, that I bet a lot of us have been through. So when Elliot’s self-protective self-deception starts to unravel, it’s compelling and oh-so-believable.
Elliot has been actively deceiving himself about the feelings they’d had for each other:
They’d been more than friends and less than lovers. At least that was what he’d been telling himself for seventeen months. Although, to be honest, Tucker’s antagonism was forcing him to reluctantly reevaluate. Tucker wasn’t guilty, he was hostile, and if he was hostile, then he felt he’d been wronged.
...And also about his own role in initiating and enforcing the breakup:
”You didn’t give me a chance to fix it, Elliot. You threw me out and then you wouldn’t see me again, wouldn’t take my calls, wouldn’t answer my emails or letters. ...No one would let me near you. I knew I screwed up. I tried to tell you.”
It was fascinating to watch objective facts emerge, as each man vented his anger and pain -- and then had to adjust his story in the light of the other’s memories. It was like watching truth be negotiated.
I was dazzled by how Josh pulled this off -- how she took Tucker from apparent villainy to being a character I loved and admired and rooted for.
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Yes, I loved that conversation! I listened to that bit this afternoon on my commute to work. :-)
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https://en.wikipedia..."
Yes, I love it! I have vague memories of watching Ken Burns' The Civil War as a kid with my parents and hearing this there. It was after that that my dad told me the story of the song.
Teal wrote: "I was dazzled by how Josh pulled this off -- how she took Tucker from apparent villainy to being a character I loved and admired and rooted for. ..."If I had to pick one thing that I've repeatedly praised in Josh's writing is how the characters (and the relationships) develop so beautifully over the course of a series. If you want insta love or insta sex then go somewhere else. Personally I love the slow burn the way Josh does it because it is so much more when they finally do get together.
I love reading from Elliot's pov, interpreting Tucker's actions and how they make Elliot feel, and how everything changes as new things come to light *gah* our Josh just does this sooo well!
So, I just finished reading Fair Game and Fair Play and, since it was my first reading, I’ve a general feeling about the books, but I won’t probably remember every detail.The mysteries were typical Josh perfection, although I liked the one in Fair Game more. I was convinced Steven was the murderer until...well, until it became obvious he couldn’t be. :D
I’ll have to remember to not re-read that scene near bedtime next time. Elliot going upstairs knowing something was waiting there…let’s just say, I love reading mysteries and even thrillers, but the downside is that I’m scared by my own shadow afterwards.
About Tucker and Elliot, I loved seeing the “mystery” of the end of their relationship unfold. As I already said, I kept an open mind about Tucker’s role, because I thought that, having access only to Elliot’s memories and side of things, it was likely that it was a biased POV, a recount of events filtered by Elliot’s emotional state. Teal explained it very well.
So, yes, they both made mistakes and I felt every bit of Elliot’s pain about the break-up, but this:
Teal wrote: “You didn’t give me a chance to fix it, Elliot. You threw me out and then you wouldn’t see me again, wouldn’t take my calls, wouldn’t answer my emails or letters. ...No one would let me near you. I knew I screwed up. I tried to tell you.”
This broke my heart.
How Tucker must’ve felt? Elliot at least had the “consolation” of thinking he was in the right the whole time, that Tucker had turned his back on him when he needed him most and all the other things he told himself in a futile attempt to make the perceived betrayal less painful.
Tucker instead paid dearly for a very unhappy and insensitive comment, born from anger, pain and fear, which he regretted. When he realized his mistake, he tried repeatedly to explain, to apologize and he was shut out without a chance. He must have felt so powerless and even if he eventually realized why Elliot said he didn’t want to see him anymore, he had no way to communicate with him, to change things. And all the time he knew he kind of brought it on himself.
On a more cheerful note, I loved Elliot and Tucker’s exchanges, the way they laugh together, even in the most unlikely circumstances.
I don’t remember who mentioned it already, but I also loved when Elliot called Tucker while he thought he was being followed and felt stupid calling anyone else. Tucker teased him the whole way, but made sure that the car engine started before hanging up. It reminded me a little bit of Jake, but sweeter, more open and vulnerable. :)
Elena wrote: "This broke my heart.... How Tucker must’ve felt? ...When he realized his mistake, he tried repeatedly to explain, to apologize and he was shut out without a chance..."That *is* heartbreaking. Especially since it sure looks like Tucker was already in love with Elliot at that point. Had in fact fallen in love with him very early on...
And confirmation of that comes in Winter Kill, where Tucker’s ex, Adam, is talking about how their relationship ended when Tucker moved to Seattle:
...We agreed that it might be good for us to have a little time apart, a little space. But I never had any doubt that we were going to work it out... But he phoned the first week and said he’d met someone else. That he knew this was the guy.
It took just one week for Elliot and Tucker to fall into bed together, and Tucker was a goner.
Elliot, as he admits of himself, can’t move quite that fast. But Tucker believed Elliot would get there in time -- time they never got:
”I guess I thought maybe if we had more time, you’d figure it out too.”
And:
“It was good between us, Elliot. You know it was. We both know it was. We just needed more time.”
That's what really broke my heart. There’s something fundamentally tragic about two people on their first steps to a lifetime together being torn apart by a random catastrophe, just before they'd established themselves as a couple. It seems like such a tragic waste. :(
Teal wrote: "And confirmation of that comes in Winter Kill, where Tucker’s ex, Adam, is talking about how their relationship ended when Tucker moved to Seattle"OMG! I read Winter Kill, but it was so long ago that I didn’t make the connection at all, I didn’t remember the details of Adam’s backstory.
In Fair Play, when Elliot said that Tucker lived with another agent for six months when he was in L.A., I generally thought it would be funny if that agent turned out to be another one of Josh’s MC. :D
Now I understand Mymymble’s comment earlier on the subject. Reading Fair Game so soon after Winter Kill, between Adam's and Elliot’s recounts of his actions, I can’t see Tucker having many chances to be liked at first sight by the reader. Although he did tell Adam that he was serious about Elliot, so there’s that.
That hypothetical reunion with all the MCs we were talking about in the So This is Christmas topic sounds more and more interesting. :D
Teal wrote: "It took just one week for Elliot and Tucker to fall into bed together, and Tucker was a goner.
Elliot, as he admits of himself, can’t move quite that fast."
I wouldn’t be so sure Elliot wasn’t already there, I think he just didn’t want to admit it to himself. He warned himself the whole time not to get attached, because he thought there was no way Tucker would want more.
Wait a minute...they did fall in bed together the first week they met. And Tucker called Adam that same week to tell him he had met someone. Do you recall if he talked to Adam before or after sleeping with Elliot?
Maybe I don’t want to know. I love Tucker, I don’t want to find out now that he cheated on Adam. Unless they agreed that they could see other people when Tucker moved to Seattle. I was thinking of re-reading Winter Kill, but maybe this isn’t the best time.
Ok, sorry I’m rambling and talking to myself. Just ignore me.
Teal wrote: "That's what really broke my heart. There’s something fundamentally tragic about two people on their first steps to a lifetime together being torn apart by a random catastrophe, just before they'd established themselves as a couple. It seems like such a tragic waste. :("
Yes, that’s tragic. Luckily for us, Josh made sure things worked out in the end. :)
Adam!?! Holy smokes I never would have remembered that piece or put it together - definitely time for a re-read, let's do it!
Elena wrote: "I wouldn’t be so sure Elliot wasn’t already there, I think he just didn’t want to admit it to himself. He warned himself the whole time not to get attached..."I totally agree. Poor Elliot is so clueless about his own feelings that he makes Tucker look like a relationship expert.
Elena wrote: "I love Tucker, I don’t want to find out now that he cheated on Adam."
Well, they were taking a break. Whatever that means, right? It’s open to interpretation by each side, and whoever moves on first gets to look like the bad guy. I wouldn’t be surprised if it seemed like a gray area to Tucker, but black and white to Adam.
But hey, Adam ended up with the guy who was best for him -- someone carefree and slightly goofy to balance out his own rather humorless intensity. So, HEAs all around! Thank you, Josh. ;)
Elena wrote: “Ok, sorry I’m rambling and talking to myself. Just ignore me.”
Please don't stop! It’s so much fun to see other people excited about this stuff too. :)
Teal wrote: "Elena wrote: “Ok, sorry I’m rambling and talking to myself. Just ignore me.”Please don't stop! It’s so much fun to see other people excited about this stuff too. :) ..."
I totally agree - please don't stop it's so much fun to discuss
Trio wrote: "Adam!?! Holy smokes I never would have remembered that piece or put it together - definitely time for a re-read, let's do it!"I did my WK re-read last month, so I could be ready not just for this series, but for The Monet Murders -- because it links to that too. :)
Trio wrote: "Adam!?! Holy smokes I never would have remembered that piece or put it together - definitely time for a re-read, let's do it!"Right? These group re-readings are fun and useful.
I’ve been thinking for some time to get Winter Kill’s audiobook and re-read it that way, but I also have Fair Game’s and Fair Play’s audiobooks sitting there waiting for me.
So many difficult choices…
Teal wrote: "Poor Elliot is so clueless about his own feelings that he makes Tucker look like a relationship expert."Which in itself is hilarious. Tucker, a relationship’s expert. LOL
These two are so out of their depths when it comes to relationships, it makes it that much better seeing them struggle to find a way to communicate and make things work.
Teal wrote: "Well, they were taking a break. Whatever that means, right? It’s open to interpretation by each side, and whoever moves on first gets to look like the bad guy."
This makes sense. Thank you, I feel better knowing that.
It seemed out of character for Tucker to go behind Adam’s back like that, he’s so brutally honest most of the time. And yes, Adam found his own HEA, so it’s all good. :)
Teal wrote: "Please don't stop! It’s so much fun to see other people excited about this stuff too. :)"
I don’t think there’s any chance of me completely stopping, but I promise to keep my rambling to a minimum. :D
Teal wrote: "I did my WK re-read last month, so I could be ready not just for this series, but for The Monet Murders -- because it links to that too. :)"I read something about The Monet Murders and Winter Kill being linked somehow, so I was planning to re-read Winter Kill before reading The Monet Murders.
I’m so behind on Josh’s books, so many to catch up to, but I noticed that I can’t read them all at once, one behind the other. When it comes to Josh’s books/series I need to take my time between books/series the first time I read them, I can’t gulp them down like junk food.
Yes, because they're like rich desserts! I was thinking of that just last night, what with Fair Chance and The Monet Murders coming out so close together... I would never define that as a "problem," but I do want time to savor them separately, as they deserve. So funny that you're using a food analogy too. :)
Elena wrote: "I’ve been thinking for some time to get Winter Kill’s audiobook and re-read it that way, ..."***Happy Dance*** I just bought Winter Kill in audio, I'm starting my re-read tomorrow (yay, Gomez Pugh)!
I forgot Sam (I think?) was also in Winter Kill. Yikes. This is turning into the MCU. I cannot keep up with those movies and pretty much don't watch any of them anymore. =/I wasn't planning to reread Winter Kill, and I think I remember it sufficiently enough that I should be okay. If I have questions, I know where to come. :D
Teal wrote: "Yes, because they're like rich desserts! I was thinking of that just last night, what with Fair Chance and The Monet Murders coming out so close together... I would never define that as a "problem,..."Apparently I should improve my real diet, because my brain isn't working that well...I meant the Mermaid Murders, I still have to read the Mermaid Murders too. And the Monet Murders, of course. :)
Speaking of that series, is supposed to be a trilogy, right?
Trio wrote: "Elena wrote: "I’ve been thinking for some time to get Winter Kill’s audiobook and re-read it that way, ..."***Happy Dance*** I just bought Winter Kill in audio, I'm starting my re-read tomorrow (..."
Have a good listening, Trio!
Linda ~ chock full of hoot, just a little bit of nanny ~ wrote: "I forgot Sam (I think?) was also in Winter Kill. Yikes. This is turning into the MCU."But it's so great to have secondary characters who caught your interest in other books getting their own story, isn't it?
What's MCU?
Hi everybody! I wanted to join earlier but RL is been a chaos lately, and I haven't had any time to re-read, but I'm enjoying your comments a lot, Teal and Elena have made really good points. This is one of my favourite Josh's books because I love Elliot voice and the mystery is really well made. I suspected who was the culprit early in the game, but despite that, I liked uncovering all the little clues left behind for us to find. I hated Corian on the spot, he is so full of himself... he reminded me of someone I used to know, he was the same... well minus the serial killer part ;) I suppouse that also colored my perception of him. And despite my dislike, I'm excited about meeting with him again in Fair Chance
Another thing I liked from this book it's how different Elliot felt from other Josh's characters I had read. His pain about losing his life, a life he loved is still fresh and raw, and I think is really interesting read about how he is still coping with that.
Elena wrote: "What's MCU?"Apparently something Italians don't catch ;-). I had to look it up:
The Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU) is an American media franchise and shared universe that is centered on a series of superhero films, independently produced by Marvel Studios and based on characters that appear in publications by Marvel Comics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_C...
Trio wrote: "Elena wrote: "I’ve been thinking for some time to get Winter Kill’s audiobook and re-read it that way, ..."***Happy Dance*** I just bought Winter Kill in audio, I'm starting my re-read tomorrow (..."
The audio of this one is beautifully done. I actually liked it even more than when I read it for the first time and by now re-listend at least four times.
Rosa wrote: "I hated Corian on the spot, he is so full of himself... he reminded me of someone I used to know, he was the same... well minus the serial killer part ;)"As far as you know, anyway. :D
Rosa wrote: "Another thing I liked from this book it's how different Elliot felt from other Josh's characters I had read. His pain about losing his life, a life he loved is still fresh and raw, and I think is really interesting read about how he is still coping with that."
Yes, that's one of the most interesting things about this series, Elliot coming to terms with his "new" life as a civilian.
Also, there’s the fact of Tucker still having and doing the job Elliot love, which complicates things in the relationship department. He’s very mature about it and that’s one of the things I like more about him, that he always try to be aware that his own feelings about what he lost might get in the way when he deals with Tucker. Still, it isn’t easy.
So much of his identity is linked to his job as an FBI agent and yet he isn't one anymore. It's like he's in this weird limbo where he can't quite stop thinking like a cop, but he's also adapting to not being one.
Which is why he sometimes finds himself in need of being rescued, like when he went to the lake and left the gun in his gloves compartment. I didn’t enjoy Elliot being used as a practice target, but the scene after that with Tucker walking into the lake? I can’t really complain about that.
I also liked the parts about Elliot’s teaching, the way he thought of each student as "Surname-comma-first name" or when he was scared that the girl who asked him to read her essay would cry when he told her what he thought of it.
Antonella wrote: "Elena wrote: "What's MCU?"Apparently something Italians don't catch ;-)."
So it seems. :)
Thanks, Antonella.
Elena wrote: "Linda ~ chock full of hoot, just a little bit of nanny ~ wrote: "I forgot Sam (I think?) was also in Winter Kill. Yikes. This is turning into the MCU."But it's so great to have secondary characte..."
Confession time: I didn’t really like Sam in WK. I didn't dislike him, but he didn't leave much of an impression other than letting Adam off the hook when he should have at least gotten a verbal warning for his behavior.
Linda ~ chock full of hoot, just a little bit of nanny ~ wrote: "Confession time: I didn’t really like Sam in WK. I didn't dislike him, but he didn't leave much of an impression other than letting Adam off the hook when he should have at least gotten a verbal warning for his behavior."I don't remember the book well, but my general impression was that he's an intriguing character. I can't say I liked him, it was more along the lines of "what's up with him? What's his story? I'd like to be inside his head and know what he's thinking".
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Fair Game was my Josh Lanyon gateway drug, so it's very special to me.
Was Stranger on the Shore a draw for new readers? I'm surprised. I loved it. (It has a ..."
It's a big seller. I agree it's not one people talk about a lot. But I'll often get notes from readers saying they discovered me through that title.
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He was the first narrator of my own work that I'd ever heard, so I was impressed even though there were some things that just hit me as off. I knew I wanted to have some control of that process, but there were really no options at that time. Not until ACX came along.
I much, much prefer JF Harding's reading.
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It was the first. It really triggered my desire to have all my stories in audio. :-)
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But it's so great to have seco..."
I'd say the interview with Sam was the verbal warning. :-D
And of course Adam did NOT do any of the stuff he was being accused of. He did get a little obsessive/possessive about the case, but if anyone could identify with that, it would be Sam Kennedy.
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Yeah, the encounter is not supposed to leave the reader feeling warm and fuzzy about Sam. It's to set up Sam as the hard-ass boss who will get his own romantic comeuppance. Hopefully.
Josh wrote: "Yeah, the encounter is not supposed to leave the reader feeling warm and fuzzy about Sam. It's to set up Sam as the hard-ass boss who will get his own romantic comeuppance. Hopefully."Then I can safely say you achieved your goal with me. ;)
I started the audiobook and I have to say that I agree with the general opinion: the narrator isn’t bad, but he doesn’t do the book justice either. He’s too fast, but the main problem is that he reads almost everything with the same tone and the same voice, during dialogues I often don’t know who’s talking until it gets specified by the writing or I figure it out by what the other person says in reply.
I hope he improves going on, because I can’t imagine what he’ll do with the more intimate scenes. He already managed to ruin one: the first of Elliot’s “flashbacks”, when he remembers Tucker talking to him in bed. I realized he had arrived at that particular point two seconds after he read it.
Elena, does your audio app allow you to slow the speed down? Maybe it would sound better?
Josh wrote: "Elena wrote: "Linda ~ chock full of hoot, just a little bit of nanny ~ wrote: "Confession time: I didn’t really like Sam in WK. I didn't dislike him, but he didn't leave much of an impression other..."I don't remember what specifically he was being accused of, but I do remember him ignoring his partner, leaving him for stretches at a time and not filling him on things, and not following proper procedures. If I were his partner, I'd be pissed too.
Elena wrote: "Josh wrote: "Yeah, the encounter is not supposed to leave the reader feeling warm and fuzzy about Sam. It's to set up Sam as the hard-ass boss who will get his own romantic comeuppance. Hopefully."..."And with me too. :D
Trio wrote: "Elena, does your audio app allow you to slow the speed down? Maybe it would sound better?"I can try and see if it improves. Thanks for the suggestion, Trio.
The speed wasn't the problem with that particular line, though. I completely missed it because he read it like he was reading the grocery list or the weather forecast.
I think I've probably been spoiled by the other narrators, because he's not that terrible. He's just...not great?
I also re-read Fair game. :) I don't have a clue how many times I have re-read this book...i swear Josh's books get better with every reread. I don't know how that is possible, but it is. :D I never hated Tucker. I just was interested to see what caused all that anger/hurt both of them felt. Elliot's pov shows perfectly that we are not always right, that we do get things wrong, even when we think we are so very right.
I felt the angst/hurt they were feeling. I thought it was fascinating how well Elliot blocked memories, feelings...in self defense. Because he couldn't deal with those emotions at that time. That's how I saw it.
It felt so good to re-read this book.
Have you seen the new re-read feature? It seems they have created it for us :)
Rosa wrote: "Have you seen the new re-read feature? It seems they have created it for us :)"Yes! This is so good upgrade :) I was always bit unsure how to mark books after another re-read. So usually I just didn't mark it..
K. wrote: "Rosa wrote: "Have you seen the new re-read feature? It seems they have created it for us :)"Yes! This is so good upgrade :) I was always bit unsure how to mark books after another re-read. So usu..."
Yes, for me it was the same. There are books I have re-read but I didn't mark them, so now I'm going to give it a try with Adrien's books, because I enjoyed a lot that re-read with everybody here and I want to remember it :)
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If I had to pick one thing that I..."
Yes! This!
Q&A with Josh Lanyon
Books mentioned in this topic
Fair Chance (other topics)Fair Play (other topics)
Fair Game (other topics)
Fair Play (other topics)
Fair Game (other topics)
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The glistening canopy of trees sheltered him from the drizzle and muffled the noise from the main campus. An occasional plop of raindrop was the only sound that reached his ears as he cut his way across the soft terrain. The scent of wet earth, cedar and the lemony mint of the gum trees hung in the cold air.
I live in the desert. And I was reading this in springtime, which is dry season here. Yes, the desert has a dry season, when it’s not uncommon to see the relative humidity drop down to 4% -- or lower. But this paragraph transported me to the Pacific Northwest, in all its humid glory, and I was hooked."
Wonderful. Thank you for sharing this, Teal.
And yeah, that is a great paragraph (even to non-desert ears). :-)