World, Writing, Wealth discussion
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Failures in Our System: Marriage
Nik wrote: "Angel wrote: "I also neglected to mention my husband is also bipolar and has suffered with it for many years before and since I've known him. ..."I don't have a clear understanding of what it is,..."
I've seen a "Beautiful Mind." As far as mental illness goes, I suffer from mental illness myself and more than one mental disorder and I have managed to live a decent and very functional life. I don't use that as an excuse to harm people and think I'm not going to be held accountable for it later. His overall problem was he was never held accountable for his actions.
Being held accountable for my actions helped me to manage my mental illness better. Had he been held accountable from the start in his upbringing for his actions maybe he'd been a better man. There are lot of people who battle with mental illness on a daily basis me included and are able to be productive members of society without breaking the law.
His hatred of himself he took out on us. I've been where he's been but I made my amends without making excuses towards my mental illness. It's a part of adulthood and he was unable to grow up, probably because he was a mama's boy and his mother always treated him like a kid and never gave him tough love. I took care of my husband and our son who is autistic/nonverbal with no thought of taking care of myself and my mental state. He shouldn't have done it. I was a good and faithful wife, our son innocent, a good kid, we didn't deserve the pain and terror he inflicted on us. I tried to get him help, and every time he seemed to get better, he was in actuality getting worse, I made sure he took his medication, I did everything humanly possible and beyond until I almost died from just the sheer strain of trying to keep him together and our family from falling apart, but in the end after 14 years I realized it wasn't go to work anymore. We were college sweethearts. He was my first and only and I don't see myself going through another relationship again. I wanted to save him, but in the end I couldn't. I wrote a book about it, had a catharsis during that time and I closed the door on it for good. Raising my son alone is the only beacon of hope I have left. I'm more than fine with that. My son is the best part of me and my husband so that I can always be proud of.
I'm not being mean, Nik. Just letting you know the understanding of it.
Nik wrote: "That's some interesting examples and good advice, Joe.I just have one reservation: someone who puts up with an arranged marriage may be obedient enough to never question the relationships and cons..."
There are problems with every solution, Nik. Arranged marriages are common in many cultures and there are no shortage of abuses in the system. One only need to look at children who have not even reached puberty being sold into marraiage. My point is that two people who have not met can make a marriage work. Why can't two people who choose to marry, make it work? or What should two friends who marry because they are attracted to each other do to make their marriage work as well as an arranged marriage?
Interesting side thought, "Fiddler on the Roof" contrasts a successful arranged marriage with marriage for love.
Angel wrote: "I'm not being mean, Nik. Just letting you know the understanding of it...."Respect your resilience, Angel, and hope for you to have calmer and happier days in life ahead
Joe wrote: "My point is that two people who have not met can make a marriage work. Why can't two people who choose to marry, make it work?..."Hey, that's a good one!
Angel wrote: "But the day my husband tried to take my life, I put him out and haven't look back since. ..."I wanted to send you a PM but couldn't figure out how. Your story is very much like my daughter's story. Her children are 18 and 16 respectively. I have a pretty good idea that you are looking at some major challenges. I believe that you will find a way.
Joe wrote: "Angel wrote: "But the day my husband tried to take my life, I put him out and haven't look back since. ..."I wanted to send you a PM but couldn't figure out how. Your story is very much like my da..."
I've been through much worse major challenges, Joe. I've been through a lot of things that would kill most people. I persevere. I always do. I'm currently dealing with major challenges as we speak.
Nik wrote: "Angel wrote: "I'm not being mean, Nik. Just letting you know the understanding of it...."Respect your resilience, Angel, and hope for you to have calmer and happier days in life ahead"
Calmer is all I can ask for.
I agreed to marry someone after two or three months. I went away for a few weeks, partly to decide if I was sure and we got married the following month. So 1) we married in haste 2) it was very much based on physical attraction 3) neither of us were interested in having children. Which pretty much goes against most of the comments on here. I'm not convinced that knowing someone for longer means you know them better, and that applies to me and my partner. While we certainly didn't have an arranged marriage, the economic aspect has always played a big role in our partnership so I can see why those marriages last.
Back when I was reporting we had to interview golden wedding couples. The classic question we had to ask was: 'what's your recipe for a happy marriage?' And the answer was always the same – give and take. I don't think there is one recipe though. One friend said 'those who play together stay together'. A few weeks back my partner told me I make him laugh every day. We share the same morals/ethics/values which makes for an easy life. And, what we want from a relationship in our 20s isn't the same as in our later years.
My husband and I have been married 34 years. Here are my thoughts.1. Don't get married if you think you will change the person. Marry them as they are.
2. Keep in mind that you are marrying their family not just them. You can't decide to ignore your in-laws.
3. Take your vows seriously. Don't even consider divorce unless you are being abused.
4. If you are unhappy in your marriage, get counseling. Try to get your spouse to go. If they won't, go by yourself.
5. Always laugh with your spouse. A sense of humor in life is a must.
OK Now I write after having read most of your comments. I absolutely agree that those of you who were in abusive relationships and got. out did the right thing. As another thought, I wonder if anyone would consider the old-fashioned idea of chastity. No sex before marriage. That's a tough one. It could save a lot of heartache for a lot of people. I saw a lot of my friends get married before they were married because of pregnancy. Others struggled because they were single moms.
Do you all think that is a bizzare concept? It also helped me to weed out the guys who were not in my best interest to date. Those who were not willing to accept my values broke up with me. Many did not last more than one date.
All well and good. I hope for the best of you all. Life is hard. It wasn't meant to be easy. I believe it was to find discover its problems, sort them out and fix them, and above all, learn from them.
Joanne As another thought, I wonder if anyone would consider the old-fashioned idea of chastity. No sex before marriage. That's a tough one. It could save a lot of heartache for a lot of people. I saw a lot of my friends get married before they were married because of pregnancy. Others struggled because they were single moms.
Do you all think that is a bizzare concept?
Each to our own. No sex before marriage wouldn't have suited me, but if people voluntarily choose that, rather than say, because of religious imposition, that's their choice. Just don't expect others to go down the same road. Sex education and easily available free contraception go a long way towards reducing unplanned pregnancies.
Joanne wrote: "No sex before marriage...."Can see some merits in the idea, but might just turn into a driver for an early marriage -:) Can't be sure, but coping with any abstention for long periods may take some mental toll...
Joanne wrote: "As another thought, I wonder if anyone would consider the old-fashioned idea of chastity. No sex before marriage.."I was raised that way but it didn't work out. I was drafted out of college in 1966 and stationed in Viet Nam before I met the first woman that I married. We were in out twenties and neither of us was a virgin. After she died, I met my second wife on a blind date. We both had 2 children - obviously not chaste. So my experience says that virginal marriage is not that important. I think one outcome of pushing people to keep their virginity until they are married is that people get married just so they can have sex. That is a bad idea.
Yes, there is no question that waiting does take a mental toll. Plus, I agree that you make the decision yourself rather than having it imposed. Another old fashioned concept which I think could benefit is that of a hmmm what is the word for a person who goes along with the couple when they date? Chaperone, that's it. I know it's a Victorian thought. It's just that I remember numerous times when I was pressured and I really had to fight for my values.
Joanne wrote: "Yes, there is no question that waiting does take a mental toll. Plus, I agree that you make the decision yourself rather than having it imposed. Another old fashioned concept which I think could ..."
Please do not read my new novel. You are not in the target audience.
The first and only reason anyone should marry is because they love that person and can't live without them--LOVE. Anything else is settling.And I agree that as the years go by, what we want in our marriages change, but that foundation is still there--LOVE.
I was forced to get married at 18, and I was still a virgin (my choice) But unless you have the support, religious or otherwise, to remain chaste until you marry, in this day and time, and the air that sweeps the world when it comes to morality, it will be very difficult to hold on to that pledge.
Also, if either partner in the marriage isn't willing to compromise, treat the other with respect, have a kind and thoughtful heart underneath whatever else makes them unique, it will be a very tough, unsuccessful road. That's just a few of the lessons I learned.
Joanne wrote: "Yes, there is no question that waiting does take a mental toll. Plus, I agree that you make the decision yourself rather than having it imposed. Another old fashioned concept which I think could ..."
Chastity, chaperone (had to google both) seem to be indeed old-fashioned, but mostly in the eyes of secular folks. Some religious communities still live by these rules, of course with exclusions on both sides.
Wasn't there something about Spears and virginity some years ago? -:)
Although my beliefs are quite distant from these notions, not gonna argue that they are necessarily better. It's a personal choice and whatever makes one happy...
All the mentioned above doesn't work. It never has, and it never will. In the future, and I suspect it is happening now, contraception will be in all food and drink. Don't think of what contraception is today. Tomorrow it will be a different story. In order to have children, one will have to take a neutralizer (much like a contraceptive pill today) or eat certain foods not having the contraceptive substances in them.
No worry - No children - Birth and Death will be regulated.
GR wrote: "All the mentioned above doesn't work. It never has, and it never will. In the future, and I suspect it is happening now, contraception will be in all food and drink. Don't think of what contracep..."
The birth rate is very different in different places and tendencies are often opposite. There are a lot of countries with negative growth encouraging birth and paying decent money to the parents for each kid and there are countries, doing the contrary - limiting birth rate.
I am not saying that all unmarried people should be chaste and have chaperone. I was just thinking of that as a way if helping people who would like to escape the peer pressure and situations that often lead to pregnancy. Pregnancy then marriage. I get it that many people in the world have values different from me. In reference to books, I wish there were some rating system on them so I could tell what would not work for me.
GR wrote: "All the mentioned above doesn't work. It never has, and it never will. In the future, and I suspect it is happening now, contraception will be in all food and drink. Don't think of what contracep..."
That reminds me of a short story I wrote years ago. MacBeth was an engineer on an intergalactic space mission. In that society, everyone was sterilized at an early age. In order to produce children, a couple had to apply for a license to be desterilized, complete a rigorous training program, and pass mental and physical exams.
Silly me - we would just collect sperm and eggs for artificial insemination.
Joe, you are more right than ever. I can see it coming. When people come of age, they will be sterilized, and have their sperm and ova removed. This reproductive bank will be the future. The sperm and ova will be selected for desirable traits, and this will be the future population.Nik, you're right too. Germany has that program. They pay women to have babies. I believe they get 550 Euros per-month for the first, and 600 for every child there after. I'm sure there is a limit too how many children one can have. The couple across the street has 4. Germany considers mothering an occupation that requires an income. That too, is for education. School is an occupation, and free as far as one can go.
This bring up another subject: Free Education vs Pay Education. Should we start the blog? I'm game.
GR wrote: "This bring up another subject: Free Education vs Pay Education. Should we start the blog? I'm game. ..."GR, pls feel free, why not ? -:)
GR wrote: "This bring up another subject: Free Education vs Pay Education. Should we start the blog? I'm game ..."GR: Funny thing about that. I am getting ready to post on my blog - the topic for today is the right to life. The people who will be marching today are only talking about getting whatever it is out of the vagina. I belong the crowd that believes it should be mean food and shelter and a chance at a a dignified life - whatever that means.
Joe wrote: "I belong the crowd that believes it should be mean food and shelter and a chance at a a dignified life - whatever that means. ..."Agree. The big question here is who's responsible to procure these...
Too long of a blog. Let's start 2 new blogs: Right Life
Free vs Pay Education: College
so, there is this guy I love, and he is really amazing, we'd been friends for a long time, and even tho our relationship only lasted a month or so, before we broke up, we remained friends and we're still really close and he is so nice and amazing and I really love him. And I have a feeling it's gonna happen between us again, and when we get back together I want us to last longer than before, I have a feeling it will....and today while in the bus I'd been thinking and....This guy is amazing and everyday I fall in love with him deeper and deeper, and it feels right, he feels like the right guy for me, and this is gonna sound crazy....because I'm only 17 and have a long way to go, I have a lot of things to do first like college and job and stuff....but I....want this guy to be the guy I marry in the future....
Princess Kavy of Books and music ~It's killing me, I admit it now~ wrote: "so, there is this guy I love, and he is really amazing, we'd been friends for a long time, and even tho our relationship only lasted a month or so, before we broke up, we remained friends and we're..."This is an advice column. It sounds like you are in a difficult situation. I wish you luck.
I guess you describe true love, Kavy-:)Hope your feelings and intuition are correct and you'll have good, lasting relations. Maybe a little early for grand, forward looking plans though and high hopes-:) All in due time
My late wife and I were married for 35 1/2 years before she died in 2005. We had 5 children. They were the best 35 1/2 years of my life.Our personal formula for making the marriage work was to constantly expend the time and effort to remain in love and in lust and to share everything,
We shared the household chores, child rearing, and our innermost thoughts. We eventually grew to sense when our partner needed some personal downtime away from the daily routine or to enjoy a solitary moment.
Jim wrote: "My late wife and I were married for 35 1/2 years before she died in 2005. We had 5 children. They were the best 35 1/2 years of my life.Our personal formula for making the marriage work was to co..."
I'm sorry for your late wife.....
You had what most people wish for and never find, Jim. My condolences.I was married once, early on, and had a son. Divorced soon after. Once burnt, twice shy; have never wanted to marry again.
Is it luck to find someone you can live with and be happy with?
Scout, I was married for almost 45 years, and I think part of the art of being happily together is first, to make sure you care for your partner and care for the other's point of view, second for your partner to reciprocate, and third, to try and take care initially and choose well, slowly.
I'm recently divorced. We were together for ten years, married for eight. I think we got married to make our parents happy, rather than for ourselves and for the same reason stayed together a lot longed than we should have. Now, I realise that the only people who should have any influence over a relationship are the two people in the relationship itself.As to marriage, I'm neither against it or for it. I think it also comes down to the individual preference although, nowadays, it no longer seems to bear as much gravitas, or importance, as it used to.
As you said, Ian, you are right. It takes care, understanding and reciprocity. If a relationship doesn't have that, it's misery. Bunny, your right too about marriage. Since I live Germany, marriage these days doesn't seem important. The relationship is what is important. Many live together for companionship. Having children isn't a problem, they're supported by the State and not by the couple. A mother, married or not, gets Kindergeld of 600 Euros per child to raise and educate them.
GR wrote: "As you said, Ian, you are right. It takes care, understanding and reciprocity. If a relationship doesn't have that, it's misery. Bunny, your right too about marriage. Since I live Germany, marria..."
Sadly, our benefits system is in complete turmoil at the moment, so I don't get anything like as much. Our government still seems to think that marriage is some kind of magical event that makes people stay together for life, and is always coming up with new financial incentives to encourage people to get married. Being a single parent, as far as our government is concerned, is pretty much the lowest of the low.
We clocked up twenty-seven years this year. In many ways, I can't believe the years have gone so fast.Along with others, I'd agree that give and take is one of the most important things in a marriage, or long term relationship. Our kids have just left home, so we're at that happy stage of having time to ourselves again - and it's lovely.
I take my hat off to parents who are soloing. Kids are tricky enough when there's two of you.
Bunny wrote: "marriage is some kind of magical event that makes people stay together for life, and is always coming up with new financial incentives to encourage people to get married. Being a single parent, as far as our government is concerned, is pretty much the lowest of the low."Just for the record there are possibilities that seem to have escaped your attention. My first wife stayed together "until death do us part." Then I ended up being single parent. No one suggested that I deserved some sort of assistance. I had to figure it out on my own. When I was sent half-way across the country on a 2 week assignment, I had to get a friend to take care of my daughters. My current wife and my daughters have all been single parents for extended periods of time. While I appreciate your situation, I am definitely opposed to another government dole. I believe that you can find a way to handle the problems.
Don't think dole is a curse and helping people, experiencing problems is hardly worse than spending government money on grants or unchecked procurement from insiders, for example. Respect your resilience though
I would rather see money devoted to dole payments than the payments for election promises that have no more purpose than getting certain politicians re-elected.
You are, of course, ignoring the fact that men and women have been dealing with this situation for centuries or longer. What are you saying to all the people who struggled through without help when you suddenly decide that "Oh, we have to tax everybody (including people who got through it without help) to coddle these single parents"?You want to help single parents now? What about the ones who came before your sudden interest in the issue? Would you consider a fund to help parents of adult children who were economically disadvantaged while they were single parents?
Joe, to clarify, the issue is not to help the parent; it is to help the child. Read Dickens and see if you want children to be returned to that sort of life.
Ian wrote: "Joe, to clarify, the issue is not to help the parent; it is to help the child. Read Dickens and see if you want children to be returned to that sort of life."I assume your meant RE-read Dickens.
Covering both options but yes, re-read sounds better.
It's not a dole in Germany. It's a right to children and all children to guarantee that they are brought up correctly. It is designated for a purpose. But, you are right Joe, it is a DOLE in the States. Anything that is given from the State is a DOLE. That's why education is no longer FREE. Before it was a DOLE. we produced some of the best minds in the world. Since then, we haven't produced anything worth hiring. If they are hired, they are the superfluous added to the industrial dole.
The best minds today come from abroad. As I said in another blog, Silicone Valley has 96K foreign employees. WHY? It should be American, but it isn't.
We are NOT producing brains. We are producing DOLE receivers--money to people that is not designated for a purpose other than keeping them out of the system. And that is the problem with America. We see government money as a DOLE, not as our right for a purpose to develop brains.
WHO are the biggest DOLE receivers in the US: Universities and Businesses. They are flourishing because of the DOLE, but they don't see it as a DOLE. They see it as a right. Because you pay taxes for their right, which was given to them by congress.
Joe wrote: "Bunny wrote: "marriage is some kind of magical event that makes people stay together for life, and is always coming up with new financial incentives to encourage people to get married. Being a sing..."I'm sorry that your wife has passed, and I admit that such a terrible eventuality did not occur to me.
I'm sorry if I came across as being in any way critical of your situation. My point was rather that our government in the UK still seems to be somewhat obsessed with the notion that marriage is the most stable and reliable form of cohabitation for a couple. For the record, I don't and never have, claimed benefits beyond the basic child support that almost everyone is entitled to. Whilst there are ways around every problem, if you do not have a support network around you, and are therefore wholly reliant on yourself, this can make things extremely difficult.
I suppose my point is that all our circumstances are different, and only each of us alone can truly know what they are, and what they compel us to do.
Joe wrote: "You want to help single parents now? What about the ones who came before your sudden interest in the issue? Would you consider a fund to help parents of adult children who were economically disadvantaged while they were single parents?..."But thus we can explain why not to abolish racial segregation, for example, or anything improving the situ for those deprived, unprivileged or simply those whom we grew to understand might need help...
I'd be rather happy to see my taxes going to help hungry kids, if a sole parent despite the efforts is somehow unable to provide for it...
I don't have a clear understanding of what it is, but this maybe changing a picture a little. I understand this is a mental disorder of a kind and a person acting under its influence may have not intended it.
Don't want to compare life with movies, but since it's based on a real story, Russell Crowe in 'A Beautiful Mind' didn't make an impression of a person accountable for his actions...
One thing is clear though - you shouldn't be in the position endangering you or your kid...