Beta Reader Group discussion
Covers, Blurbs, 1st Line, Query
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FEEDBACK Requested Between 2 Blurbs - Fantasy Novel
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Generally you want to lead with your protagonist and give enough information that readers will feel some sort of tension when you express the conflict. The history needs to be either left out all together or woven in with the rest of the description.Maybe something like this:
Brenn, a former legionnaire and member of the Penthion, just wants to live out his life. Instead, he's drawn into a millennial-old battle between followers of a long-overthrown tyrant.
Can Brenn unite waring kingdoms, unnatural beasts and mystical powers he doesn't understand to secure peace for those trapped between worlds?
Obviously this is just a stab in the dark, but hopefully you'll get the idea.
Thank you very much! Great insight :)I tried to mimic Game of Thrones / Hunger Games with their history lead-in ... but I totally see your point about making a connection with the Protagonist early on.
I made an updated version ... I still kept a little history in the first paragraph as I think it sets the "feel" for the novel:## Updated Version
In dark ages past, Mävet, a malevolent tyrant, entrapped mankind in a mysterious and magical realm between the land of the living and the lands of the dead. For two millennia, he ruled with terror until his defeat at the hands of his own generals and the Penthion—a secret society dedicated to his overthrow.
Now, six thousand years later, Brenn, a brave Penthion member with a mysterious past, strives to continue the traditions of his family and keep peace amongst the nations that arose in the aftermath. But events beyond his control have once again brought mankind back into the fray as forgotten followers of the overthrown tyrant seek to regain control of mankind. In the midst of waring kingdoms, betrayal, and dark magic, Brenn tries to unite a world of divergent cultures and fight the coming darkness. Many will come to his aid, but not all can be trusted.
I'm going to go with 'slightly less bad'. Just as you need to let the backstory seep in with the narration in the story, you need to do so in the blurb. We need to know about Brenn right off the bat, then need to learn about the stakes in the game and finally what's keeping him from achieving his goals. And yep, you got 100-150 words to cover all that. Since it seems clear Mavet is long dead, he shouldn't show up at all in the blurb (and may only get one sentence in the synopsis; maybe). And 6K years is a very long time (pretty much longer than the entirety of recorded human history), so the only thing that matters is what's happening to Brenn now.All your stuff is great fodder for the novel, but there are lots of sweeping epics out there, you need to focus on what makes yours unique, not what makes it the same as all the others.
now I know why people hate writing blurbs :) it's tough to let go of things (I'm stubborn by nature which sucks in these situations) ... I can only image what it'll be like making changes after beta readers give feedback on the books! oh boy!thank you again for the help.
question though, if Mavet makes a return, but I don't want to let that secret slip in the blurb, does that justify his intro or is it still a moot point?
if you still think it's moot, should I expand the second paragraph to include anything from the first?
one of the unique aspects of my epic is that it takes place now, present day ... in a world (created by Mavet) between our reality and the afterlife, but it operates on a completely separate set of natural laws and experience of time. and the barriers of all the realms don't always stay separate. I know that's a lot from a background viewpoint, just throwing it out there for mental digestion.
again, I'm a rookie writer trying to feel my way around in the dark! you've been a great help, so I appreciate all you've shared!
Well, I'm a rookie writer trying to feel my way around, it's just that I've been doing so a wee bit longer than you.One thing I've learned since I wrote my first couple of novels: write the blurb and synopsis _first_. That way you haven't 'contaminated' yourself with the manifold details you need to create to go from a single page synopsis to a 100K novel. However, since you and I are already past that point, I suggest you brace yourself for the agony that is blurb/synopsis writing.
I think I can truthfully say, at this point, that I've spent almost as many hours working on the damn blurb and synopsis as I have on the novel to begin with, and that includes incorporating suggestions from beta readers and editors! There are a number of good threads here, I suggest you read through a lot of them to get some ideas on how to tweak yours. I know doing so has helped me a great deal.
Here is an example where I went back and forth with a writer over her blurb where I think she has the exact same issue:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
When I tried to help and got it laughably wrong, she came back with some nice bullet points for what her story actually is. I kept trying to get her to focus on the bullets because I felt all she needed was to try and flesh out her bullets and she would have a compelling blurb. I think you're in the same boat. Tell me what the 'beats' are, don't worry about being clever or easy to read, just list them. If you wind up with more than 4-5 you aren't focusing on what's really important (or you don't have anything important going on ;-) Then, flesh each bullet out to 2-3 sentences (two is better!). Rewrite what you have a few dozen times, doing your best to cut out words that aren't absolutely necessary to convey the intent, and bingo, you now have the start of a good blurb.
Feel free to do this process here; it will help me and no doubt lots of other people as well...
that's a lot to process ... which is great!I haven't written the whole first book yet ... but I have a detailed outline of the plot, characters, twists, etc. I'm using the snowflake method (I feel it prevents wandering and plot holes). I only have a few chapters actually written and sent to a few beta readers to get initial thoughts / feed back.
maybe if I go back to my earlier (albeit updated) notes / outline, I can get some good bullet points to work from.
back to the drawing board!
The main problem with that is the backstory. Backstory does not belong in a query.You really just need to answer these questions:
A logline hook to draw in the reader.
Who the mc? Don't drown us in this. Include it in the hook if you can.
What do they want?
What stands in their way?
What happens if the fail?
http://agentqueryconnect.com/ and query shark are invaluable resources for query writing.
Also, queries are really only up to the first act of your novel.
That's also more of a synopsis than a blurb. Even a blurb should be similar to a query. Though I would not quite worry about it until you've finished writing it. Even after completing a first draft who knows how the story will change from the first to the second draft.
Leland:Thanks! I'll check that link out :) great questions as well, maybe using the actual answers as an outline for the blurb would be great.
I'm not so worried about writing a query, as I'm gonna self publish, I'm looking more for the text to go in the book description in iTunes, Amazon, etc. BUT, your questions are super helpful.
Keith:
I see what you mean by a similar problem. We got some same issues ... down to main character names! Brin vs Brenn! Ha!
I was thinking of the "single sentence" description and it dawned on me ... I'm thinking about the WHOLE TRILOGY... when I should be thinking of just book 1, right?
Yep. Can't sell book 2 if no one buys book 1. I also suggest, even when self publishing, that book 1 wrap up with a pleasing ending That way, even if your reader doesn't want to invest in follow-on work for that series, they may still be left satisfied and willing to try other books by you in the future. In my opinion, if they bought the second then they'll buy the rest unless your story telling ability got 'used up' in the first story.
we're a little off topic, but I'm gonna chase that rabbit :)so I have book 1 ending with a LOTR type approach.
Fellowship OTR ends with the the fellowship breaking apart and going different ways ... overall task is in peril. cliffhanger is incentive to get books 2 & 3 and finish it all.
BUT, you're suggesting I should go the star wars approach. New Hope ends good; Empire Strikes Back ends in peril; wraps up in Return. incentive is quality writing brings them to 2-3.
interesting... for you, is this a strong suggestion or a mild suggestion. is this a more common approach (trying to think of other examples). I can obviously re-plan as I'm only a few chapters in.
My opinion, based on reading all sorts of sites focused on selling books. In likely close to 100% of the cases, though, the focus was on getting agents/publishers and not self publishing (which is my personal focus). I don't think you need to wrap everything up in a bow at the end of the book, I think there can be plenty unresolved. But I think, particularly book 1, not end on a cliff hanger. Think of the TV series that didn't get renewed and had a season ending cliffhanger. OK, that's probably a bad example.
You need to do what feels right for you and if cliffhanger is the way you want to go, go for it. I just suggested this approach as it's the one I'm taking in my series. The first book is stand-alone, though the second ends with what I hope is a hook to get people to read the third (though, as written, the third has no hook; need to think about that and do some rewriting).
Anyway, think of Harry Potter. Each book winds up resolving something, but the main resolution continues book to book until the final one. That's what I'm talking about and, yes, I see LoTR as being the opposite. As I recall reading somewhere, though, Tolkien wanted to do the thing in one book, but was overridden by his publisher.
you're right, come to think of it, LOTR was intended to be one book and the publishers made him change ... I'll sit down and give my current outline a thorough review and see what's wrapped up and what's not.thanks!
Okay ... so after thinking about Book 1 only ... here's take 5:## Version 5
Brenn, a man with a complicated past, constantly strives to uphold his family's honorable and secretive vow—an oath to safeguard the 'strangers' who mysteriously appear in their world with no past and no memory. These strangers, entangled in the very nature of the world, are to be located and protected at all cost; for without them, the world as they know it is doomed.
When an unholy tragedy befalls a stranger, Brenn seeks to uncover the truth only to find he has stumbled upon a plot that threatens the fragile peace in the realm. Forgotten followers of an old religion have risen and set in motion events which imperil all humanity. Brenn must unite a world of divergent cultures and fight the coming darkness. Many will come to his aid, but not all can be trusted.
I like this a lot better. Suggestion: "When an unholy tragedy befalls a stranger, Brenn uncovers the truth only to find"
simpler is better, I'll adjust that :) thanks so much for the help and getting me refocused the important factors! I appreciate all time and effort you put in!
Helping you helps me! I've rewritten mine dozens of times, tweaking wording for a while, then throwing everything out and starting over. If I haven't mentioned on this thread yet, what I've found is it's just as important to attracting interested readers as it is to turn away disinterested readers. You don't want to mistakenly attract someone on what they consider a false premise, that's a fast route to a crappy review. I've had this exact problem with my old blurb and beta readers, they seem to either really like it or really not, so I've been trying to find ways to keep the likers and turn away the dislikers. And we all thought writing the novel was the hard part!
## Version 1
For an eon, mankind has been trapped in a realm between the land of the living and the lands of the dead. Mystery and magic have left them unknowing victims to a dark tyrant, never realizing they've been stolen away. Though the tyrant has been defeated, those who survived have been left to fend for themselves in an strange and mysterious world.
After six millennia, events beyond man's control have brought them once again back into the fray as forgotten followers of the evil tyrant seek to regain control over mankind. The Penthion have always sought to fight for freedom, but their numbers have dwindled over the years and lost their way. In the midst of waring kingdoms and forgotten dangers, can one Penthion, Brenn, unite his people and a world of divergent cultures to truly secure peace for all those entrapped in the Neither.
## Version Two
In a magical realm between the land of the living and the lands of the dead, mankind has fought for its survival. Six millennia has passed since the Penthion helped overthrow a malevolent tyrant and the world has yet to heal. Kingdoms have risen and fallen in the wake, but peace has barely held true.
Now, forgotten followers of the tyrant are seeking to enshroud the world in evil once again, but the Penthion have dwindled and lost their way. Brenn, a former legionnaire, seeks to protect his family and friends from the coming wrath, but is he able to succeed in the midst of waring kingdoms, unnatural beasts, and mystical powers beyond his understanding? Many come to his aid, but they can't all be trusted.