The Bard a Month Club discussion
The Comedy of Errors
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Comedy of Errors: Thoughts & Discussion
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Adam
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Dec 31, 2016 03:59PM
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I started reading the play today. My edition has shortened names for the characters so I had to go back and reread as I was getting confused with who was doing what.Some bits are really funny.
Camille wrote: "I started reading the play today."I'm impressed, Camille! A+ for getting started right away.
This is my first Goodreads Book Club, so I'm new to this. But I must say I'm happy to be reading Shakespeare again.I try to write a short piece of my thinking after reading each book that I post on Goodreads. Here's what I wrote after finishing The Comedy of Errors this morning:
The Comedy of Errors, by William Shakespeare, 1593; edited and with an introduction by Harry Levin.
For what is regarded as William Shakespeare’s first play – what a play! I may watch it on YouTube, but even in the reading of it, the physical humor that goes with the action and wordplay is quite enjoyable. And I was surprised to see this fun bit from E. Dromio:
Am I so round with you, as you with me,
That like a football you do spurn me thus?
You spurn me hence, and he will spurn me hither;
If I last in this service, you must case me in leather.
(Act II, Scene 1)
It was also interesting to see the different personalities of the two Antipholus’ – one who plays along to understand what is going on, and the other who strongly resists every assault on his identity. I very much appreciated Harry Levin’s introduction to the edition I read, which discussed comedy in some depth and brought forward some important dimensions of this play. On the trivial side, Levin says this is the only play of Shakespeare’s with an explicit mention of America. More seriously and interestingly, Levin discusses the idea of alienation in the play, “all the greater when our image of ourselves depends for its corroboration upon a settled context, and when we come to realize – what tragedy teaches us – that it is our destiny to be replaced.” Now that is something to think about as we work and wander in this world.
@Mark - the football bit surprised me too! I didn't know footballs were so old.Have you found the bit where he mentions America?
Hi Camille,Yes -- The America line comes when S. Dromio describes Luce to S. Antipholus, using various countries, etc. Act III, Scene ii.
I was surprised that it was the only explicit mention of America by Shakespeare in his works, according to the edition I read. But then, I guess there was not much going on in the Americas for the English in the late 1500s and first decade of the 1600s, not from the perspective of England. Still, that was an interesting sidelight!
I read a good portion of this play yesterday, re read Act 1 Sc 1 a few times, you definitely pick things up the second and third reading.I am new to Shakespeare but I would guess even the veterans would be picking up tidbits that they missed in previous reads?
:-)
I'm not a veteran, but that makes a lot of sense to me. The language starts becoming more familiar, you have a bit more sense of who the characters are and what they are about, etc. Good call. As long as we're doing this, we may as well get the most out of it.
Mod
The Comedy of Errors uses the tension inherent in social roles to create its comedy. There are several relationships thrown into chaos during the play - servant/master, husband/wife, sister/sister, and of course brother/brother.
Do you think the play challenged or challenges the way people understand these roles? Or does it reaffirm the way Shakespeare's audiences would have understood them? Maybe both?
Why does Dromio start many of his lines with "Merry"?
Ok I just had my first laugh out loud moment of the book, I wish I could copy and paste but it was act 3 sc 2 line 101-110 when Dromio is describing a "fat marriage" to Ant of Syr.Also FTLN 0892 to 0900 if your using Folger books.
:)
I think that "football" in Shakespeare's time was regarded as a rude, crude, bumptious pastime of the "lower crust". In King Lear Kent calls Oswald a "base football player". When D of E says "like a football you do spurn me thus" me might have been using 'spurn" to mean "kick away" or "trample upon".I also think a lot of the lines begin with "Marry," which can mean the equivalent of today's "Listen up" or "Well," or "Indeed"--or I agree. I just looked it up on www.nosweatshakespeare.com to verify that.
It's one of those words that are ubiquitious in the plays.
This was my first time reading this particular play and while it will not rank with my favorites it was funny and made me chuckle a few times. I could imagine it playing out on stage and I definitely think seeing it live would be a riot. I'll be watching those adaptations that were named in another post, for sure. If anyone finds any other adaptations in film or even YouTube performances I'd love to learn of those as well.
Mod
I agree -- It wasn't too funny the first time I read it. Then after I figured out the language, I went back and read it more quickly and it was much funnier! It helped to get the rhythm down.
Natalie wrote: "I think that "football" in Shakespeare's time was regarded as a rude, crude, bumptious pastime of the "lower crust". In King Lear Kent calls Oswald a "base football player". When D of E says "like ..."Thanks for the explanation!
As others have noted, the word 'America' appears only once in all of Shakespeare, and that in Act III of The Comedy of Errors. It appears in the comic, and rather risque, scene when Dromio of Ephesus is describing the 'kitchen wench' Nell, who's set her eyes on Dromio. Various countries, or lands, are compared to parts of Nell's body.Here's the bit about 'America':
ANTIPHOLUS OF SYRACUSE:
Where's America, the Indies?
DROMIO OF SYRACUSE:
O, sir, upon her nose, all o'er embellish'd with rubies, carbuncles, sapphires, declining their rich aspect to the hot breath of Spain, who sent whole armadoes of carrects [large ships] to be ballast at her nose.
I'm presuming that by 'America' Shakespeare means 'the New World'--that is, what we now call North and South America, but I thought others in the class might have more detailed information. Are there perhaps English maps from the period that have survived? I think it might be the case that within two decades (by 1610, let's say) the word 'Virginia' was used as the name for all English holdings in North America.
From what I remember from my university courses, the Englush colonisation of America started with the creation of Jamestown in 1607. So I'm thinking it's more the Spanish side of America that Dromio is talking aabout. That would match the idea of jewels, Eldorado, etc.
Mod
Ooh, I love this time period.
There were several failed British attempts at colonization prior to Jamestown - the most famous of which was Roanoke in 1585. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roanoke...
I haven't found any English-language maps from the 16th Century, but here's one from the Netherlands: https://digitalcollections.nypl.org/i...
In 1609, the ship 'Sea Venture' left England for Jamestown, but shipwrecked on Bermuda. The survivors survived on the island for 9 months and managed to build two new ships that eventually did bring them to Virginia. This story is often thought to have inspired The Tempest, so I'll write more about it when we get to that play. (One of them was James Thomas, my earliest ancestor to settle in America.) https://books.google.com/books?id=XN8...
Here's what the boundaries of Virginia were in 1611: Crazy! [image error] source: http://www.virginiaplaces.org/boundar...
Adam wrote: "Ooh, I love this time period.."Thanks for the maps, Adam. I found the map of Virginia boundaries especially interesting.
When we get to The Tempest, do remind everyone about your ancestral connection to the play--should make for some interesting discussions.
Oh, yes, my bad, I forgot about Roanoke! Thanks for the correction, Adam.
I just realized I never posted here about my reading of "The Comedy of Errors"! It's been a very long time since I have read any Shakespeare. I thought this would be difficult for me to get in to, but I loved it! There is a lot of difference in having to read it in High School, than reading it for pleasure! I'm so glad I joined this group. Looking forward to reading them all!
I can think of some topics to discuss:1) the role of women in this play
2) Social identity
3) What are the serious sides of the play that prevent it from being a mere farce?
4) the force of the "law" and how arbitrary it can be. Shakespeare and the law is a huge topic in many of his plays!
5) What does it mean that no citizen of Syracuse may be permitted in Ephesus. Why is that a law?
6) What about all the water imagery?
Natalie wrote: "I can think of some topics to discuss:1) the role of women in this play
2) Social identity
3) What are the serious sides of the play that prevent it from being a mere farce?
4) the force of the "law" and how arbitrary it can be. Shakespeare and the law is a huge topic in many of his plays!
5) What does it mean that no citizen of Syracuse may be permitted in Ephesus. Why is that a law?
6) What about all the water imagery?"
ooh, good questions! I'll be thinking about them while I read so I can hopefully give my answers to at least some of them.
Forgive the lateness of my post, but I misread the prompt, thinking that the discussion started Feb. 1! Anyway, I enjoyed reading the play, but got more out of it by watching the 1983 BBC production with Roger Daltrey.Adam's questions:
1. The Comedy of Errors uses the tension inherent in social roles to create its comedy. There are several relationships thrown into chaos during the play - servant/master, husband/wife, sister/sister, and of course brother/brother.
Do you think the play challenged or challenges the way people understand these roles? Or does it reaffirm the way Shakespeare's audiences would have understood them? Maybe both?
I don't think Shakespeare's play challenges any of the power dynamics (servant/master, husband/wife) because none of the characters significantly changes by the end. I think, however, Shakespeare had an opportunity to do so with Adriana and Antipholus of Syracuse if the two had more time to explore the (non)relationship between them.
Regarding siblings, I think the only relationship that could be commented upon is the one between Adriana and Luciana because they know about each other from the start of the play. Both have different perspectives on what it means to be in a relationship, but it is not clear whether Adriana's (justifiably) pessimistic view affects Luciana's potential relationship with Antipholus of Syracuse.
In contrast, the two sets of twins only barely started their relationships. The relationship between the two Dromios is clearly warmer, but that could be because they were similarly beaten down while their masters had vastly different experiences (e.g., Antipholus of Ephesus was constantly being arrested, while fortuned seemed to shine on Antipholus of Syracuse).
Some of Natalie's themes:
1) the role of women in this play
I feel that women had significant roles in this play, heightening the tension. Watching the video, I was especially struck by the Abbess's admonition of Adriana. Indeed, the Abbess seemed to have as much power as the Duke.
2) Social identity
See my comments above re: Adam's questions.
3) What are the serious sides of the play that prevent it from being a mere farce?
Clearly Egeon's potential death initiates the play on a serious note. I think the play also makes me think a little more about the relationship between men and women, particularly when they are married.
4) the force of the "law" and how arbitrary it can be. Shakespeare and the law is a huge topic in many of his plays!
5) What does it mean that no citizen of Syracuse may be permitted in Ephesus. Why is that a law?
The forbidding citizens of Syracuse in Ephesus was not adequately explained to me (or I'm too lazy to look for the explanation), so that law at least seems arbitrary. The law, however, seemed essential for the framing of the play. Other laws, such as the one that lead to the initial arrest of Antipholus of Ephesus, seemed to ensure the fairness of transactions.
6) What about all the water imagery?
This question would require additional readings. I did catch the water imagery in the first monologue of Antipholus of Syracuse:
I to the world am like a drop of water
That in the ocean seeks another drop.
While watching the DVD, I caught how the drop of water comes up again in Adriana's first encounter with Antipholus of Syracuse:
For know, my love, as easy mayest thou fall
A drop of water in the breaking gulf,
And take unmingled thence that drop again
Without addition or diminishing,
As take from me thyself and not me too.
Responding to Leslie Ann:Love your comments. And the quotation you added at the end is my favorite quote from the play.
Just finished this play today. I never laughed so much when reading! This was a fabulous, witty play. I'm glad I had the opportunity to read it! :)
Mark wrote: "Responding to Leslie Ann:Love your comments. And the quotation you added at the end is my favorite quote from the play."
Thank you!
