Reader's Paradise discussion
Monthly Copy Cat Challenge
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Aparna and Arpit: Jan copy cat challenge... Edit: India After Gandhi discussion
Arpit wrote: "Did you notice that the author was mostly quoting The Indian Express. Sometimes TOI, but mostly IE. Any thoughts?"No idea! I could never notice that. May be if its from TOI :D Not otherwise!
Thats the thing. He quotes whatever side of argument he wants to present. The references are not at all reliable. Feels like he's referencing just for the sake of it!
Arpit wrote: "And I've just completed the part where she's being compared to a dictator. A rare female dictator :P"Just completed that. And now I see what you meant by those newspaper references. That demise of Dem O' Cracy article printed under the nose of censorship was indeed funny by TOI :P
Coming back to inheritance in Congress, which I had raised some time back :
Indira was not the best of candidate when she stepped up after Nehru. But she did indeed prove herself to be the most favorable and powerful successor.
Same can be said for Sanjay. Born in the "Gandhi" family, he did get his foot on the door, but really proved himself to gain that mass popularity.
May be there were other equally good if not better contenders, but those were overshadowed by the PM's preference given to Sanjay. What was the first step taken by Sanjay which made him really popular? And whether that would still have happened had he not happened to be a Gandhi himself?
Not sure if same could happen in the case of the youngest RaGa :D
That dictator feel, returning of awards, a Yogi close to the PM!Man! History does repeats itself :)
Regarding Emergency... we can never know what worse could have happened had it not been imposed for that long year! But it does look like a big dhabba on the face of democracy.The good thing is, it did fuel up those Westerners view and essays on how democracy cannot survive in India and how the country will be disintegrated fast. Funny in retrospect :D
I've completed "The autumn of Matriarch" and am knocking the door of Life without the congress.Have marked the letters from Nehru to his daughter, to be read out of curiosity, in another decade.
Gorab wrote: "I've completed "The autumn of Matriarch" and am knocking the door of Life without the congress.
Have marked the letters from Nehru to his daughter, to be read out of curiosity, in another decade."
Another decade? lol.
In my tbr too. Some of them were in my school syllabus. And they have historic content from Nehru chacha's POV...to padhna to banta hain na!!
Also Discovery of India too :)
Have marked the letters from Nehru to his daughter, to be read out of curiosity, in another decade."
Another decade? lol.
In my tbr too. Some of them were in my school syllabus. And they have historic content from Nehru chacha's POV...to padhna to banta hain na!!
Also Discovery of India too :)
Gorab wrote: "Arpit wrote: "Forgot what I was talking about @_@"
I'm used to it now -__-
Remember your Xmas and New Year trip?"
Sooorrrryyyyyy!!
Actually, those were the personal narratives I was talking about when I was talking to Indrani.
one last promise: Before July. Un-buddy me If I don't fulfill these promises this time. Seriously, just throw me out through the window :P
I'm used to it now -__-
Remember your Xmas and New Year trip?"
Sooorrrryyyyyy!!
Actually, those were the personal narratives I was talking about when I was talking to Indrani.
one last promise: Before July. Un-buddy me If I don't fulfill these promises this time. Seriously, just throw me out through the window :P
Gorab wrote: "Thats the thing. He quotes whatever side of argument he wants to present. The references are not at all reliable. Feels like he's referencing just for the sake of it!"
Exactly! Sir gave his best performance to defend Nehru Uncle, but in Indira's case, he didn't even try....clearly not a fan of Mrs. Gandhi xD
But I guess all historians are biased in someway. The only way is to read different version, and choose whatever suits one :P
Exactly! Sir gave his best performance to defend Nehru Uncle, but in Indira's case, he didn't even try....clearly not a fan of Mrs. Gandhi xD
But I guess all historians are biased in someway. The only way is to read different version, and choose whatever suits one :P
Gorab wrote: "Arpit wrote: "And I've just completed the part where she's being compared to a dictator. A rare female dictator :P"
Just completed that. And now I see what you meant by those newspaper references...."
Eh...right about Indiraji. She did indeed prove herself, whether as a Iron Lady ('71) or as Dictator Lady ('75), she didn't hold anything back.
Sanjay's case is different and not equally convincing. Indira's mother died when she was just 19. She did participate in Freedom moment. Her father was in Jail a lot of time. It was not as easy for Indira as Sanjay. Sanjay, born almost in free India, grandpa prime minister, and later mother also a prime minister. Studied in foreign universities, part of such a powerful family, he had to have that charisma. In my opinion, he did nothing exceptional. He had everything in his hand. The very effing government of India were under his power, judiciary and bureaucracy were almost powerless. Zero opposition. He could do whatever he wanted to do. Even the dumbest guy in this position could have "proved" himself in the way (except RaGa):P
Gotta stop now, else you will think that some RSS guy hacked my account :D
Just completed that. And now I see what you meant by those newspaper references...."
Eh...right about Indiraji. She did indeed prove herself, whether as a Iron Lady ('71) or as Dictator Lady ('75), she didn't hold anything back.
Sanjay's case is different and not equally convincing. Indira's mother died when she was just 19. She did participate in Freedom moment. Her father was in Jail a lot of time. It was not as easy for Indira as Sanjay. Sanjay, born almost in free India, grandpa prime minister, and later mother also a prime minister. Studied in foreign universities, part of such a powerful family, he had to have that charisma. In my opinion, he did nothing exceptional. He had everything in his hand. The very effing government of India were under his power, judiciary and bureaucracy were almost powerless. Zero opposition. He could do whatever he wanted to do. Even the dumbest guy in this position could have "proved" himself in the way (except RaGa):P
Gotta stop now, else you will think that some RSS guy hacked my account :D
Gorab wrote: "That dictator feel, returning of awards, a Yogi close to the PM!
Man! History does repeats itself :)"
On point!!
Imagine Emergency now! Internet would either be banned or heavily censored. Internet down, and lo, the country almost stopped.
Man! History does repeats itself :)"
On point!!
Imagine Emergency now! Internet would either be banned or heavily censored. Internet down, and lo, the country almost stopped.
Arpit wrote: "one last promise: Before July. Un-buddy me If I don't fulfill these promises this time. Seriously, just throw me out through the window :P"Grrrrr >.<
Why should I be punished for your deeds!
Grrrr >.<
I agree totally about SG's charisma thing. Didn't think it out like that.
Well.... internet down means digital currency down too :D The current govt can no way afford/accomodate it!I'm fine as long as GR isn't down though!
I'm somewhere between chap 23, Life without Congress (we are living now :P).
Guess 70's was the decade of emergencies! Pakistan too had an emergency phase after the '71 war. And Elections in '77. And both Zulfikar Ali Bhutto and Indira Gandhi are known as the most popular and controversial personalities in their respective countries.
Although it would be better to compare (best would be not to compare...eeee) Indira with Z. A. Bhutto's daughter Benajir Bhutto. Wanted to read about Bhutto family too.
I hope Guha sir at least mentions the Z. A. Bhutto--Zia-Ul-Haq incident. That was very interesting. Malala in her autobio told me about it.
Although it would be better to compare (best would be not to compare...eeee) Indira with Z. A. Bhutto's daughter Benajir Bhutto. Wanted to read about Bhutto family too.
I hope Guha sir at least mentions the Z. A. Bhutto--Zia-Ul-Haq incident. That was very interesting. Malala in her autobio told me about it.
Arpit wrote: "I'm somewhere between chap 23, Life without Congress (we are living now :P)."Same here. Have noticed a few black and white pics in the paperback. Will share with you.
Haven't read anything from Pak :( Should mend that soon.
Welcome Hajarath Prasad Abburu :)
Gorab wrote: "Arpit wrote: "Wanted to read about Bhutto family too."
http://www.amazon.in/Daughter-East-Au..."
Shall buy a paperback soon :)
The first review (by an Indian) gave it one star and said that Benajir tried to present his father Janab Sr. Bhutto as some messiah of Pakistan, when in reality he wasn't. He was just like other presidents. He continues that this book is just pure glorification of his father, and thus label it "pathetic".
But in Malala's auto-bio, she also claims Janab Bhutto as the best prez of Pakistan!
Makes me wanna read it more.
PS: The reviewer mentiones that she spits venom against India! I thought she was friendly with India :/
http://www.amazon.in/Daughter-East-Au..."
Shall buy a paperback soon :)
The first review (by an Indian) gave it one star and said that Benajir tried to present his father Janab Sr. Bhutto as some messiah of Pakistan, when in reality he wasn't. He was just like other presidents. He continues that this book is just pure glorification of his father, and thus label it "pathetic".
But in Malala's auto-bio, she also claims Janab Bhutto as the best prez of Pakistan!
Makes me wanna read it more.
PS: The reviewer mentiones that she spits venom against India! I thought she was friendly with India :/
HP's accusations against Nehru Chacha -
The way they handled Telangana issue, and the way chief ministers of the states (especially Southern States) were decided by the cover from Delhi, and his undue importance to Rajaji which delayed the formation of states based on language..
The way they handled Telangana issue, and the way chief ministers of the states (especially Southern States) were decided by the cover from Delhi, and his undue importance to Rajaji which delayed the formation of states based on language..
I'm half done with chap 24. Uh... I'm a still slow right now... Will catch up/speed up soon :)
I couldn't read much last week. Still at middle of Chap 23. But will be speeding up in the coming days.
Arpit wrote: "PS: The reviewer mentiones that she spits venom against India! I thought she was friendly with India :/"Sounds interesting. But I'm not going to dilute my to be read list by adding more, until I read the couple of Gandhi books thought of. His autobio.... and Mohandas (that recently bought Hindi book... can't find it on GR)
Have finished Chapter 24 - Disarray of democracy.The Western world looked for the slightest chances on how the democratic rule will fail and how India will be divided into many fractions.... Only to get slapped back on their face multiple times!
Curious to read more about Operation Bluestar.
Indi(r)a had a spine and took very bold decisions! More respect!Off course in retrospect, you can either praise or knit pick on what could have been better, or how and why it was a blunder. But she was the only one who could have pulled it on her own without any support.
Sanjay was alright. But bringing Rajeev in?? While he wasn't even interested? Come on! There were much better deserving candidates!
Am surely going to read the other side.... people who blame Nehru and Indira for their blunders.
One more thing....How Naga people wanted freedom from India, and we refused them, saying that Nagaland is an integral part of India, and cannot exist without it. Think the same way about Tibet. They also want freedom. We're keeping Nagaland in the same manner as China is keeping Tibet. What do you think?
Do you know about the reincarnation theory of Dalai Lamas? How a Lama is found?
Just finished chap 24.
Woh kya kehte hain...um..yeah, apt title. Right ;)
Woh kya kehte hain...um..yeah, apt title. Right ;)
Gorab wrote: " The Western world looked for the slightest chances on how the democratic rule will fail and how India will be divided into many fractions.... Only..."
Lol...exactly. Guess the idea of India's downfall fascinate them too much ;)
Lol...exactly. Guess the idea of India's downfall fascinate them too much ;)
Gorab wrote: "Curious to read more about Operation Bluestar."
Me too.
Immediately I searched on YT. There's a 50 mins BBC documentry on it. Gonna watch that. Although ppl say that BBC is biased, always presenting India in darker shade. I'm not sure though.
Me too.
Immediately I searched on YT. There's a 50 mins BBC documentry on it. Gonna watch that. Although ppl say that BBC is biased, always presenting India in darker shade. I'm not sure though.
Rajeev's entrance was a disaster. Although there were lots of deserving candidates, as you say, but Congress wasn't much democratic at that time. Indira was Congress and vice versa. So it was not a surprise that they turned to Rajeev. If only Rajeev had acted a little bit sensible/responsible at that time!!
Guess RaGa Jr. is too much like RaGa Sr.
Guess RaGa Jr. is too much like RaGa Sr.
Gorab wrote: "Do you know about the reincarnation theory of Dalai Lamas? How a Lama is found?"
Yep. We discussed it first during our trip. I didn't believe it first, but later found the same thing on Internet, even on Dalai Lama's official website, so now a believer :)
Yep. We discussed it first during our trip. I didn't believe it first, but later found the same thing on Internet, even on Dalai Lama's official website, so now a believer :)
This book was published in 2007, so we might get a little account on Dr. Manmohan Singh. Since UPA-1 was not bad, I expect good words for my PM :)
I felt very bad reading about Operation Bluestar.In practically all such matters, 99% of innocent people suffer because of those 1% extremists! And which in turn churns out many more extremists converted from those innocent lot!!!
Splitting of Telangana, Seemandhra, Jharkhand, Chattisgarh, Uttarakhand... all that happened within this decade. Guess the author used current news to lay stress on some of the impactful historical events?
Arpit wrote: "Rajeev's entrance was a disaster. Although there were lots of deserving candidates, as you say, but Congress wasn't much democratic at that time. Indira was Congress and vice versa. So it was not a..."True. At least RSr. knew what he didn't want. whereas RJr seems clueless about most of the things!
Gorab wrote: "Splitting of Telangana, Seemandhra, Jharkhand, Chattisgarh, Uttarakhand... all that happened within this decade. Guess the author used current news to lay stress on some of the impactful historical..."
Except Telangana, yeah right. Agree.
Except Telangana, yeah right. Agree.
One thing in Chap26 - MizoramGuha sir has used that "people in Mizo learnt the national language Hindi, and played the national sport Cricket"
What?? Can't be Guha sir writing that!
Moving on the last part... end of chapter 26 is sort of an intro for the last part of this book.Very glad to have read it so far.
Had heard of VP Singh, but didn't know the details.
Gorab wrote: "One more thing....How Naga people wanted freedom from India, and we refused them, saying that Nagaland is an integral part of India, and cannot exist without it. Think the same way about Tibet. Th..."
I still don't know why states want freedom? To be self sufficient? Or in cases where they feel centre is extracting enough from them but not giving them back?
On 26.3!
25 Chap: Sir didn't mention at all that how the Central and State government helped the chairman of Union Carbide to run away from India. He was arrested, but "orders" came from Central to release him, and he left India. Sir ji didn't even mention it as an allegation let alone as a fact, which it was :(
Sirji is more clever than I thought :/
25 Chap: Sir didn't mention at all that how the Central and State government helped the chairman of Union Carbide to run away from India. He was arrested, but "orders" came from Central to release him, and he left India. Sir ji didn't even mention it as an allegation let alone as a fact, which it was :(
Sirji is more clever than I thought :/
Have you watched Bhopal: A Prayer for Rain?
Although it's a terrible movie and I won't recommend it.
Although it's a terrible movie and I won't recommend it.
Gorab wrote: "I still don't know why states want freedom? To be self sufficient? Or in cases where they feel centre is extracting enough from them but not giving them back?"
I guess the latter is true. Also to "protect" their culture and language.
But honestly, people don't demand such things until extremists provoke them. It's all political, a cruel game for power. I mean they know that they can't reach Delhi (gain power, I mean), so they fancy a state/country of their own to rule it :/
I guess the latter is true. Also to "protect" their culture and language.
But honestly, people don't demand such things until extremists provoke them. It's all political, a cruel game for power. I mean they know that they can't reach Delhi (gain power, I mean), so they fancy a state/country of their own to rule it :/
Ramayana was telecasted at the wrong time. I knew it emptied streets, and people garlanded their TV sets, but wasn't aware of its political effect.
My father says that my grandma used to go to neighbour's house (A Brahaman family) to watch it.
Momma watched it in late 90's. I was a kid then, but I do remember few episodes. I watched it in early 00's :)
What about you?
My father says that my grandma used to go to neighbour's house (A Brahaman family) to watch it.
Momma watched it in late 90's. I was a kid then, but I do remember few episodes. I watched it in early 00's :)
What about you?
Arpit wrote: "On 26.3!25 Chap: Sir didn't mention at all that how the Central and State government helped the chairman of Union Carbide to run away from India. He was arrested, but "orders" came from Central to..."
I feel there must be many facts like that. But can't be sure because my history......
Reader's Paradise
Books mentioned in this topic
The World Is Flat: A Brief History of the Twenty-first Century (other topics)Salt and Sawdust (other topics)
Cracking India (other topics)
Cracking India (other topics)
India After Gandhi: The History of the World's Largest Democracy (other topics)
I'm used to it now -__-
Remember your Xmas and New Year trip?