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In search for a license to kill
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War is too extreme a setting to be just another profession. There is just too much stress for any normal person to withstand more than a few years of continuous active war. Look at the proportion of regular army soldiers who returned from the battlefield with PTSD or who committed suicide once back home. I have myself experienced PTSD after spending two years in Lebanon during its civil war and the 1982 Israeli invasion and it took me years to get rid of my nightmares. Only deeply asocial or psychopathic persons could become mercenaries and truly like fighting in wars for years and years and still want more of it, in my opinion. If you ever meet such a person, watch out! Wars are no video games!
Michel wrote: "War is too extreme a setting to be just another profession. There is just too much stress for any normal person to withstand more than a few years of continuous active war. Look at the proportion o..."Very well said and I'm glad you're feeling better these days. I can only imagine what you've been through.
I definitely think there are mercenaries that enjoy war. Its certainly not for everyone, but Ive met several people in my life that enjoyed being on a battlefield more than they enjoyed being back in the US living a civilian's life. Its probably a very small subset of those that served but to some its a way of life... there's even a magazine devoted to it.
https://www.sofmag.com/
Most war junkies are paramilitary/survival extremists. I think they can't function without the adrenaline.
Tara wrote: "I think they can't function without the adrenaline."I think adrenaline is part of it. I also think there are people who like and enjoy the kill. Humans are predators (some are prey) and therefore within humankind there will be subset of apex predator humans. Those that are the elite of killing - be it serial killers, snipers, mafia hit-men or mercenaries.
If you are good at something, you tend to continue to do what it is you are good at. And some people are excellent killers. Regular life does not provide a lot of opportunity to kill other humans, so I can definitely see where one, who is good at killing and enjoys it, would turn to mercenary ventures.
And to answer Nik's question, some killers are made, some are born that way.
I too suspect that we have those hooked on a kill. Some more probably work for intelligence agencies having execution wings.Don't know whether poachers come from the same or a different psycho-type.
From reading interviews my impression is that most mercenaries are there not because they want to kill people, but rather find in soldiering a meaning of life. They get addicted to a simple, survival type of life and have hardships to return to routine. Being a bank teller or engaged in performance of dull job seems meaningless to them, as well as the chase after assets, material goods, etc. Absurdly, simple army life, peril and survival are deemed by them as an 'escape' from peaceful life most people enjoy and cherish...
There are adrenaline junkies too..
Michael wrote: "Tara wrote: "I think they can't function without the adrenaline."I think adrenaline is part of it. I also think there are people who like and enjoy the kill. Humans are predators (some are prey) ..."
A serial killer is not good at killing. A CIA operative who can take out an adversary in hand-to-hand combat is good at killing. A sociopath who stalks down the weak in surprise attacks is just a sick monster and a coward.
I suspect a number of soldiers look at the high pay offered to mercenaries, and succumb. There will probably be some adrenaline junkies, but my guess is most mercenaries won't want to know them. The thrill seeker is simply a route to being killed. The real mercenary will do enough to earn the pay, but make sure survival to enjoy it occurs.
Tara wrote: "A serial killer is not good at killing."Oh yes they are. I double majored in Criminal Justice and Psychology and wrote a 180 page thesis on serial killers that was read by the experts at Quantico at the FBI's Behavior Sciences Unit, including this guy...
Serial killers are probably the best killers we can study. Some have been able to kill for years without getting caught. Thats why I call them the Apex Predators of Humans.
Killing one person without getting caught is difficult. Killing 10+ people over the course of several years is very difficult.
Michael wrote: "Tara wrote: "A serial killer is not good at killing."Oh yes they are. I double majored in Criminal Justice and Psychology and wrote a 180 page thesis on serial killers that was read by the expert..."
I see your point. I guess I don't see it as a skill when you're picking off members of society who are often forgotten and undervalued. There are exceptions, such as Gacy, BTK and Bundy, but most serial killers pret on drug addicted prostitutes and other fringe individuals. I suppose that is marginally a skill but not the type of skill combat veterans and mercenaries exercise.
Let's put this in its simplest, crudest context: contrary to regular soldiers, who kill if need be to defend their country or its interests, mercenaries kill for money and are theoretically ready to kill about anyone and destroy anything if asked to against a big enough sum of money. They are like professional assassins, but in camouflage uniforms. I would thus be very suspicious of the morality and ethics of someone ready to kill for money rather than for ideals or patriotic duty. Would you really want to have a mercenary as a neighbor?
Tara wrote: "but most serial killers pret on drug addicted prostitutes and other fringe individuals. I suppose that is marginally a skill but not the type of skill combat veterans and mercenaries exercise."
There are many types of serial killers. Not all can be lumped together. Usually they do share one common trait, they become more daring and change their targets. Most start with animals in adolescence and move up to those that wont be "missed" by conventional society at first, street walkers and the like. Then they start upping their targets. Just like any other hunter no one starts with lions and tigers, they all start with smaller game.
I actually give more credit to serial killers. Its very easy to kill with a bomb or a gun as a combat vet or mercenary. You can remove yourself from the kill. Most serial killers kill with their hands. They enjoy watching the life drain away from a body.
Killing for money is one thing. Killing for the joy is different. Anyone can kill for self -defense, some can kill for ideals or patriotism, some will kill for money, few will kill for enjoyment.
Michael wrote: "I actually give more credit to serial killers. Its very easy to kill with a bomb or a gun as a combat vet or mercenary. You can remove yourself from the kill...."
Excuse me?! You have obviously never been in combat or on an active battlefield. Contrary to serial killers, who stalk typically unarmed, defenseless victims and take them down by surprise, soldiers and mercenaries have to face opponents that also have guns and explosives and have been trained for combat. Compared to soldiers and mercenaries, your typical serial killer is a coward stalking sheeps. As for killing for joy, that is for sadists and psychopaths and doesn't deserve any admiration or respect.
Excuse me?! You have obviously never been in combat or on an active battlefield. Contrary to serial killers, who stalk typically unarmed, defenseless victims and take them down by surprise, soldiers and mercenaries have to face opponents that also have guns and explosives and have been trained for combat. Compared to soldiers and mercenaries, your typical serial killer is a coward stalking sheeps. As for killing for joy, that is for sadists and psychopaths and doesn't deserve any admiration or respect.
I have not been in active combat.Im not taking anything away from combat vets, I come from a long line of them. My father served as a tank driver in Germany, my great uncle was on Mount Suribachi when the flag was raised on Iowa Jima, another great uncle was a Lt Colonel in the Pentagon and another served in the US Marines in Vietnam. They were all good and brave men, but they werent killers. Some were men who killed because they had to.
Im sorry if you think I admire true killers. I dont admire them, but I did extensively study them. And despite what you want to believe, people are drawn to them and stories of them, no different than people are drawn to stories of heroism on the battlefield. If not, we still wouldnt be talking about Vlad the Impaler, Jack the Ripper, Sweeney Todd, Ted Bundy, BTK and John Wayne Gacy.
Sadist and psychopaths need to be studied.
And to get back to Nik's original post, I do believe that there are mercenaries that enjoy what they do and they dont do it just for the money.
I am totally in agreement with Michel. A soldier might kill people, but his targets are also trying to kill him. Make a wrong move and you are dead or wounded.A serial killer kills totally unsuspecting victims, who are in position to fight back. Execution is too good for them.
Serial killers don't kill other able-bodied men (usually). They kill the weak and incapacitated - those who are defenseless. This is why war crimes are different from combat killings.
Michael wrote: "And to get back to Nik's original post, I do believe that there are mercenaries that enjoy what they do and they dont do it just for the money...."
And that is why those mercenaries are despised by true soldiers. A soldier that would truly enjoy killing for the sake of killing rather than as part of his duty to defend his nation would quickly be shunned and censured/disciplined by his comrades and superiors. Blackwater 'military contractors' in Iraq are examples of men who lost their moral compass, while their excesses only attracted more attacks on other Americans by pushing more Iraqis in the extremists' camp.
Yes, some sadists and psychopaths become mercenaries in order to have a justification for the killings they want to do. Others who are adrenaline junkies go to war to get their fill of dangerous, violent thrills, while others do it for money. All of them contribute nothing to Humanity except death and destruction. Most of them either die young or become completely deranged due to the stress and horrors of the wars they fought willingly. None will get any sympathy from me when they will die.
And that is why those mercenaries are despised by true soldiers. A soldier that would truly enjoy killing for the sake of killing rather than as part of his duty to defend his nation would quickly be shunned and censured/disciplined by his comrades and superiors. Blackwater 'military contractors' in Iraq are examples of men who lost their moral compass, while their excesses only attracted more attacks on other Americans by pushing more Iraqis in the extremists' camp.
Yes, some sadists and psychopaths become mercenaries in order to have a justification for the killings they want to do. Others who are adrenaline junkies go to war to get their fill of dangerous, violent thrills, while others do it for money. All of them contribute nothing to Humanity except death and destruction. Most of them either die young or become completely deranged due to the stress and horrors of the wars they fought willingly. None will get any sympathy from me when they will die.
I also fail to sympathize with mercenaries. No one is forcing them to leave the military and become librarians. If it were just an inability to live without the rush of combat adrenaline they could become trainers, weapons and tactics specialists or private security consultants. Instead they choose to continue killing. Disturbing.
Michel wrote: "Would you really want to have a mercenary as a neighbor?..."I'd be a little wary... But I imagine many of them are vague about their past and present occupation, so one might not know...
To remove any doubts, we are mostly talking here about fringe members of society, nothing admirable.... but then again I can't rule out that some watch ISIS beheading people and check how to join their ranks..
Nik, I think ISIS is different. Those joining that will be strong supporters of the Wahabbi way of life, and see ISIS as religious crusaders. In my view, perverted, but in their view, following the wishes of God. A little different from the thrill-seeker, or the mercenary.
Ian wrote: "Nik, I think ISIS is different. Those joining that will be strong supporters of the Wahabbi way of life, and see ISIS as religious crusaders. In my view, perverted, but in their view, following the..."True for the majority but a disturbing number of recruits are from non-Muslim, middle class backgrounds who are disillusioned, lack identity and are basically, spoiled thrillseekers.
Ian wrote: "Nik, I think ISIS is different. ..."Agree, ISIS is different. I just used it as an example that most atrocious acts still would evoke admiration among some perverted minds. And neo-nazi, aren't they on the rise?
The Wisdom of Psychopaths: What Saints, Spies, and Serial Killers Can Teach Us About Successhttps://www.amazon.com/dp/B007NKN9U8/...
Just sayin'
Michael wrote: "The Wisdom of Psychopaths: What Saints, Spies, and Serial Killers Can Teach Us About Successhttps://www.amazon.com/dp/B007NKN9U8/...
Just..."
Have you read The Psychopath Next Door? It's in my Audible Wish List - lots to be learned from the criminally insane.
I have not read it but that was my point that I failed to make. Serial killers, when you study them are worthy of study, not so much admiration, but they do have many similar characteristics to very successful people, such as CEOs, politicians, and religious leaders. Same personality traits, just used in a different manner.
Thats why I place them above combat vets and mercenaries. You can teach anyone to kill. There's no serial killer training school. Its genetic and self-taught behavior usually emanating from one's personality based on occurrences during their childhood that effected their development.
And they are not criminally insane. They completely understand the differences between right and wrong. They chose to do what they do.
Michael wrote: "I have not read it but that was my point that I failed to make. Serial killers, when you study them are worthy of study, not so much admiration, but they do have many similar characteristics to ver..."So when you say you place them above other killers do you mean in the category of being natural killers? Also, yeah, criminally insane killers are usually not serial killers. They usually only have one victim. Usually.
Yes. Thats what Nik's original post discussed, mercenaries being natural born killers. Mercenaries might be natural killers, but they may also be contract killers as some have suggested. Serial killers do it for the enjoyment of the kill.
Michael wrote: "Yes. Thats what Nik's original post discussed, mercenaries being natural born killers. Mercenaries might be natural killers, but they may also be contract killers as some have suggested. Serial k..."
Okay, I see/agree.
If anyone has watched the drama Mindhunters - very interesting insight into early FBI work on sequence killers that were later called serial killers. _ Don't know how factual it is but several real cases are represented.
I'd like a license to kill my neighbors who disregard leash laws and allow their dog to use my yard as a latrine. I'd be willing to hire a mercenary. . . just kidding, if the FBI is reading this.
Scout wrote: "I'd like a license to kill my neighbors who disregard leash laws and allow their dog to use my yard as a latrine. I'd be willing to hire a mercenary. . . just kidding, if the FBI is reading this."Hope you'll solve it amicably -:)
I've politely talked to them about this twice. That's why I'm so upset. Bad neighbors suck, as Sen. Rand Paul learned. He's suffering from 5 broken ribs and bruised lungs resulting from a neighbor's surprise attack. The age-old question remains: Why can't people treat others as they would want to be treated? And another age-old question: How many times do you turn the other cheek when someone knowingly does you wrong?
The answer to your first question is: That's Humanity for you. There always were violence-prone, selfish and uncaring people around and always will be. For your second question: I practice 'an eye for an eye' policy in the case of physical attacks on me or my family. I deal with less serious forms of attacks through diplomacy first, then will call the police if it gets more serious, but I will never meekly accept a wrong against me or my family.
The uncaring can be the worst, especially if they also have the wrong sort of dog. I recall a long time ago I was outside and heard Claire, my wife, screaming. She had put our young daughter in a bassinet outside and was trying to protect her from the neighbour's large dog. The neighbours were on a balcony looking down, and laughing. I grabbed the first thing I could, which happened to be a gorse knife, and charged. The neighbours suddenly became horrified and called their dog back, and it went. I was livid - they could have done that any time, but it was only when the dog was threatened they called it back. (For explanation, a gorse knife is something like a light axe on the end of a long heavy handle - one blow would have easily been sufficient to break the dog's back, and I would have.)
Talk about terrible neighbors. Mean people. Glad you had a chance to intervene and avert a tragedy.My dog neighbors are mild in comparison, although still deliberately annoying. Yet my neighbor on the other side helped me today to cut some edging that I couldn't cut. So things balance out, I guess.
Scout wrote: "Talk about terrible neighbors. Mean people. Glad you had a chance to intervene and avert a tragedy.My dog neighbors are mild in comparison, although still deliberately annoying. Yet my neighbor o..."
The good news about my terrible neighbours is they moved.
Recalling the cult movie with Harrelson and Lewis, are there natural born killers? What do you think?
There are supposed to be a certain percentage of us who are sociopaths/psychopaths. Many of these go on to be leading people in society (CEOs, even politicians!) and a very small minority go off the rails, so I would suggest no, but the raw material is supplied to be coupled with mental illness later.
I do think there are natural born killers. Sometimes, no matter what you do as a parent, you can't alter genetically driven behaviors.Of course, that's different from a license to kill, granted by the government.
World, Writing, Wealth
Books mentioned in this topic
The Wisdom of Psychopaths: What Saints, Spies, and Serial Killers Can Teach Us About Success (other topics)The Wisdom of Psychopaths: What Saints, Spies, and Serial Killers Can Teach Us About Success (other topics)
Whoever Fights Monsters: My Twenty Years Tracking Serial Killers for the FBI (other topics)
Foreign servicemen have a long history. Swiss mercenaries/guards were eagerly recruited by European powerhouses along the centuries and still serve in Vatican. Don't know whether Barclay-De-Tolly should be viewed as a foreigner, but this German -born with Scot ancestry gentleman was the chief-in-command of the Russian army when Napoleon invaded Russia, later superseded by Kutuzov.
Mercenaries are in Eastern Ukraine, in Syria on both sides and in most armed conflicts. Some do it for money, others maybe made war a way of life.
Who are these men(and maybe women)? Are they natural born killers in search for 'quasi'-legit self-realization? Or is it a profession just as any other? What do you think?