Dichotomy between commercial concerns and unchecked self-expression

[Nik]

Do you feel it exists?
On the one hand, we say it's so wonderful to be an indie, since we don't need to dance to anyone's tune, on the other hand, editors and any experts having any recommendations or reservations about our work, would usually make them bearing commercial aspect in mind.
Indie or trad, we still expect to sell (except for those who avail their stuff perma-free).
The less the involvement of third parties, like: editors or beta-readers, the more uniquely personal the manuscript and ... the less commercially viable.
Or maybe not. Ideal, of course, is when our work simply and naturally resonates with millions of people.
What do you think?

[Mehreen]

Nik wrote: "Do you feel it exists?
On the one hand, we say it's so wonderful to be an indie, since we don't need to dance to anyone's tune, on the other hand, editors and any experts having any recommendations..."

Indie vs Trad. Books will not sell unless they find the right kind of readers. Secondly, The name has to get out there by word of mouth or in the media somehow that the author writes good books. Third it has to have some sort of a recognition in some form of an award or criticism. Some books get very bad criticism but still they find their way to prominence.

[Ian]

Mehreen is correct. The book has to have something of interest, otherwise it will fail. If it has the interest, it has to be discovered by those who would find it interesting. I may be wrong, but I think discovery and inherent value to some are the two key points. The problem is to get the book in font of those who would find it interesting. Two words ("Mummy porn") did it for fifty shades. Others, like me, can't find such biting key words, maybe because they don't exist :-(

[Nik]

The question here is whether to adapt your telling basing on advice of editors and betas or from your own perception of what should broaden book's appeal and thus apply a more conformist, commercial approach or leave your own 'raw' voice and content (let's say well proofread) in hope it'll have interested readership.
The division among indies is clear, some are interested in commercial success and are ready to shape however their content and telling, while others stress that first and foremost they want to be true to themselves even at the expense of a broader appeal.
Indie as truly independent or indie replicating trad's approach in search of more sales?

[Mehreen]

Nik wrote: "The question here is whether to adapt your telling basing on advice of editors and betas or from your own perception of what should broaden book's appeal and thus apply a more conformist, commercia..."

What do you mean by "indie replicating trad's approach"? There is no such thing. Either you're an indie or you are a trad. For trad it is harder, as the books publication solely depends on editors. In the end no one can predict what the fate of the book maybe. Most publishers take a wild guess. Sometimes they win. Sometimes lose.

[Ian]

In my case, I prefer to be true to myself. I listen to anyone's opinion, and of course correct things I did not intend, but if I intended it, it stays. Following Polonius :-)

[Mehreen]

Ian wrote: "In my case, I prefer to be true to myself. I listen to anyone's opinion, and of course correct things I did not intend, but if I intended it, it stays. Following Polonius :-)"

Which is what Ian? Trad or Indie? I'm definitely a traditional writer.

[Michael]

Nik wrote: "The question here is whether to adapt your telling basing on advice of editors and betas or from your own perception of what should broaden book's appeal and thus apply a more conformist, commercial approach or leave your own 'raw' voice and content (let's say well proofread) in hope it'll have interested readership. "

I think you know my answer... lol

If a tree falls in the woods and there's no one there to hear it does it make a sound ?

If a book sits on a shelf and no one reads it, did you even write it ?

[Ian]

Mehreen, the discussion, as I read it, is that we are talking about how you publish. Trad means you get publisher; indie means you do it yourself :-)

[Mehreen]

Ian wrote: "Mehreen, the discussion, as I read it, is that we are talking about how you publish. Trad means you get publisher; indie means you do it yourself :-)"

Yeah I know that Ian. I just didn't understand what you meant. I said I've got publishers. I am not an indie writer, because I don't self-publish. Therefore, I am a traditional writer as my books get published by traditional advance and royalty paying publishers, who market and distribute them.

[Nik]

The difference between trad and indie is who finances the initial expenses and has a bigger cut in royalties. A publisher takes upon itself all the costs, takes final call on the content (usually with the sole aim to have a more commercial product) and allocates a certain budget for initial promo. If the books flies, the publisher makes back its costs and earns some money, sharing it with the author.
The indie can order the same team of experts, employed by the publisher, i.e. editors, designer, pr & marketing and thus replicate the same processes of the publisher and ultimately remain with much higher margins (if there are ever any -:)).
Two main distinctions in my understanding is who bears the costs and who decides on the content.
With the first book we/I relied heavily on editor's opinion on the content, while as I moved to further stages - I've moved to betas, however implemented only recurrent issues or where I felt convinced by beta's remark.
On the other hand - I have my hesitations about applying a more commercially oriented approach -:)

[Nik]

Michael wrote: "I think you know my answer... lol ..."

Sure, I do and it seems to work quite well -:)

[Joanna]

Also in traditional publishing the publisher gives an author an advance, so a payment upfront. When the book sells enough copies to equal that advance, the author is paid more according to how many more copies he/she sells.

[Justin]

I'm biased because I'm so used to and comfortable with being indie so naturally I feel it's the way to go. also I'm a half full and believer in myself so by those standards and accounts I say being indie has its freedom and drive in its own way.

[Nik]

So, what's the write balance btw unrestrained art & self-expression and mundane commercial concerns?-:)

[J.J.]

Even if you're a self-expressed indie, you're still bound by the whims of the retailers you publish through...When I tried to take my alter-ego's first book to Smashwords, they wouldn't accept it, even after censoring it. I tried to give the fans what they wanted in my most recent, and Amazon wouldn't accept that one...