ARCHIVE - DUBLINERS - BUDDY READ - DISCUSSION THREAD

[Luca]

Samanta wrote: "Updated: January 9th, 2017

People joining us so far:
Numbering is in the order that folks signed up.

1. Samanta - moderating - Zagreb, Croatia
2. Bentley - Metro NYC
3. Michelle - Los Angeles, Ca..."

I'm from Amsterdam, NL. (Number 38 on the list.) Looking forward to the discussion!

[Samanta]

Welcome to the discussion, Mark! Looking forward to an insight from a Joyce lover.

I love cats and would love to have one again some day, but 9...oh my!! Kudos to you :)

We'll be here to spur you along, if you get stuck, no worries.

[Samanta]

Lotte wrote: "Samanta wrote: "Updated: January 9th, 2017

People joining us so far:
Numbering is in the order that folks signed up.

1. Samanta - moderating - Zagreb, Croatia
2. Bentley - Metro NYC
3. Michelle -..."

Thank you Lotte. I'll add it to the list.

[Luca]

Thanks!

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

Mark - I understand

[Ali]

Hello! Ali here, looking to challenge myself intellectually this year. I purchased this years ago on my Kindle and there it has sat, untouched and daunting, so I'm excited to have the motivation and support of a discussion group to tackle the task. Looking forward to everyone's insights!

[Carlton]

Samanta wrote: "Updated: January 10th, 2017

People joining us so far:
Numbering is in the order that folks signed up.

I am number 5 and am from Oxfordshire, UK.

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

Thank you Carlton - I am sure that Samanta will add your information

[Samanta]

Welcome, Ali! Can you tell us your location so that we can add it to the list in message 73. Thank you!

[Samanta]

Carlton wrote: "Samanta wrote: "Updated: January 10th, 2017

People joining us so far:
Numbering is in the order that folks signed up.

I am number 5 and am from Oxfordshire, UK."

Thank you, Carlton.

[Michael]

Hey all, Michael from Alberta, Canada. I plan to join in on this buddy read. It has been too long since I could join in. I look forward to the discussion.

[Samanta]

Wonderful, Michael! Welcome

[Samanta]

I urge everyone (who hasn't yet done it) to respond to the event notification for Dubliners (received by e-mail) as we send the updates on the discussion and links to the discussion that way.

[James]

My name is James Joyce... well, James Patrick Joyce, and I intend to participate.

I tried to read some Joyce when I was around 15, but it didn't work. Not counting a book of his poetry that a grandmother gave me, when I around 5 or 6 and I read very young, I haven't read any of his work.

I always intend to. And if I meet someone who knows Joyce's work, they just assume that I've read it. Maybe now, I will.

We'll see...

[Terry]

Hi all, I'm Terry and I live in Woodinville, Washington. The time seems right for me to join a Buddy read and Joyce has been on my shelf for awhile. I intended to read this before a trip to Dublin a couple of years ago but just ran out of time. Might as well catchup.

[David]

Hi, I am David from Buffalo New York. I think I'd like to give this buddy read a try. I finished the first story today and found it to be deep and mysterious. I think it ought to make for great discussion and I look forward to plunging into the book and interacting with the group .

[Samanta]

Welcome to the discussion, Terry and David. We are looking forward to your comments on Joyce.

David, please be so kind and respond yes to the event notification you received by e-mail. Thank you!

[Michele]

I am using this edition: with a introduction by John Banville. Anyone else have this edition?

[Ali]

Whoops, sorry Samantha! I'm in Salt Lake City, Utah, home of the great King's English bookstore (long may it reign) :)

[Samanta]

Thank you, Ali! :)

[Essannia]

Hi, I am Essannia. I am from Morocco. This is my first time reading James Joyce. I hope it's not going to be too difficult.

[Samanta]

Good morning everyone! We are kicking off with our Dubliners discussion. Below, you will see summaries and questions for this week's reading that might help you in the discussion. Of course, you are free to share with us your own thoughts and ask your own questions. Just remember to use the spoiler format (check messages 2 and 3).

Happy reading, everyone!

[Samanta]

Stories' Overviews and Summaries
Week One

(view spoiler)[The Sisters

A local priest dies and it's the talk of the town. The story unfolds to the reader through the eyes of a young boy, who was the late priest's student. He goes with his aunt to visit the house of mourning, as is the custom.


Edvard Munch: By the Deathbed, 1895

An Encounter

Two young schoolboys, the narrator and his friend, decide to skip school and spend the day at leisure. During their adventure, they encounter a strange looking old man, who starts telling them stories.


Old man telling stories to two boys (hide spoiler)]

[Samanta]

Week One Discussion Questions - The Sisters - Customs

(view spoiler)[1. What is the overall atmosphere of the story?

2. "If he was dead, I thought, I would see the reflection of candles on the darkened blind for I knew that two candles must be set at the head of the corpse."

In this sentence Joyce gives us a glimpse into one aspect of Ireland's culture and tradition. Are you familiar with the tradition surrounding death in your country/region/town? What are the most prominent aspects of it? Do you follow tradition when a death in the family occurs?

3. In the story, the narrator and his aunt go to visit the house of mourning, that is, the late Reverend's house, to pay their respects. Does your culture include visiting families of the departed at the time of the death? Do you bring anything with you? What is the conversation like (in the story we have a conversation full of empty phrases and uncomfortable silence)?


A wake in Ireland, Source: http://www.panicd.com (hide spoiler)]

[Samanta]

Week One Discussion Questions - The Sisters - Characters

(view spoiler)[4. What did Reverend Flynn die of and why was his illness and subsequent death the talk of the town?

5. I found it strange that neither I nor the day seemed in mourning mood and I felt even annoyed at discovering in myself a sensation of freedom as if I had been freed from something by his death."



What kind of a relationship do you think, the boy narrator and the priest had? Why do you think he felt as he did upon the priest's death and what did his dream mean? The conversation between the narrator's uncle and Mr. Cotter was full of unfinished sentences and thoughts kept to oneself, but still the two understood one another perfectly. What do you think it was all about?

6. Who are the Sisters and why do you think Joyce named the story the way he did? (hide spoiler)]

[Samanta]

Week One Discussion Questions - An Encounter

(view spoiler)[1. In this story we have boys playing games together, inventing them along the way trying to amuse themselves. What kind of games did you play as a child? Were you more of a outdoors or an indoors child? Did you even try skipping school to spend the day going on an adventure? Is there a difference between the way children played when you were one and the today's generation?

2. Why do you think the boys decided to skip school and go out for the day?


Pigeon House Power Station Dublin

3. During their day out, the boys encounter a strange old man who approaches them and starts a conversation, which turns out into a monologue. Having read that part, what is your opinion of the old man? Can you make a connection with the previous story? (hide spoiler)]

[Samanta]

Week One Discussion Questions – Weekly Wrap Up

(view spoiler)[1. What did you think of this week's reading?

2. Dubliners are full of some recurring themes. Can you guess what those are? What is an overall atmosphere of the stories?

3. Joyce is emphasizing the importance of religion for the Dubliners. Can you find the themes he uses for that purpose. Can you read his overall opinion on the matter? Do you agree with it?


Dublin (hide spoiler)]

[Sumit]

I am from Maharashtra, India.

[Samanta]

Welcome Sumit!

[Samanta]

Mark, please use spoiler format when commenting. If you are not sure how to do it, you have a "(some html is ok)" link in the upper right corner of the comment box. When you click on the link, you will find formatting tips there, including the spoiler format. Thank you!

[Samanta]

Response to Mark - The Sisters

(view spoiler)[ Why do you think that is, Mark? What is it about this story that makes it so appealing to readers? I am also wondering about the choice of title for the story. The said sisters are only really appearing at the very end of the story, after all. (hide spoiler)]

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

Hello Mark - Regarding the Sisters

(view spoiler)[I think there is a lot going on in that story. Maybe take a stab at the questions that Samanta posts for discussion. Messages 89 and 90. You know that Joyce had a difficult time getting published but aside from diction and allowing the readers to figure out themselves what was the nature of the relationship - that is probably the gist of the differences - don't you think. Please take a stab at Samanta's questions which will hopefully stir up a lot of discussion. Regarding your comment on title - for sure (hide spoiler)]

[Natalie]

I would like to join in and hope that I get the rules correctly.
Natalie from Columbus, OHIO, USA

[Michele]

Week One Discussion Questions – Weekly Wrap Up - REPLY
(view spoiler)[
1. What did you think of this week's reading?

This is my first time reading Dubliners, so I found the stories to be interesting.

2. Dubliners are full of some recurring themes. Can you guess what those are? What is an overall atmosphere of the stories?

I noticed something with Sisters and An Encounter; they both are about children. So, a few stories with a Childhood theme, a few with an Adolescent theme, then Adult, then death? Guess I will have to keep reading! Another theme seems to be religion.

3. Joyce is emphasizing the importance of religion for the Dubliners. Can you find the themes he uses for that purpose. Can you read his overall opinion on the matter? Do you agree with it?

Seems to be a love-hate kind of thing. In the Sisters, the Priest who had died, had several strokes and seemed to have a kind of paralysis. The boy enjoyed his time with this priest, but was relieved when that obligation disappeared. In Encounter, the boys playing hooky for the day, seem to feel superior in a way, over the kids at the "national school" because they went to a religious school. So religion seems useful but not that good maybe? (hide spoiler)]

[Samanta]

Mark wrote: "Response to Samanta - A Test!
[spoilers removed]
I guess it wasn't that hard after all."

Mark wrote: "Question for Samanta -
[spoilers removed]"

Told you it wouldn't be. :)

[Natalie]

(view spoiler)[

My spoilers come in the form of questions. I am not saying I have the answers at all, but I end up with lots of questions when the book is very good.

1. Why is it called "The Sisters" instead of several possible alternate names?

2. What an impactful first sentence: "There was no hope for him this time: it was the third stroke". This sentence indicates not only the lack of hope but that the "him", as yet unnamed, no longer has any hope nor do others about him.

3. Why is our narrator obsessed with walking past the house and looking at the window? Could he be wishing for or dreading this illness/death? He clearly cares.

4. He seems to feel guilty that he had not taken the man seriously when the man had warned him that "I am not long for this world".

5. Why does the boy repeat the word "paralysis" Note that I think this is an important word for "Dubliners" in general.

6. Do the trio of deadly words (paralysis, gnomen, and simony) have any connection except for in the mind of the speaker?

This is just the first paragraph and may be I've already written too much.

/spoiler (hide spoiler)]

[Samanta]

Response to Mark

(view spoiler)[No I haven't. This is my first encounter with Joyce in general, so outside of this, I haven't yet had the opportunity to get acquainted with his other work or other versions of this work.

It seems that the central theme of the story is the relationship between the narrator and the deceased priest. Why do you think Joyce chose to write about that? (hide spoiler)]

[Samanta]

Natalie wrote: "I would like to join in and hope that I get the rules correctly.
Natalie from Columbus, OHIO, USA"

Welcome Natalie! Glad you decided to join. If you need help with the rules, feel free to ask.

[Samanta]

Response to Michele - Weekly Wrap Up

(view spoiler)[You might be onto something with the themes. Definitely keep reading, and let me know again what you thought. Religion is definitely very important part of Irish culture of the time, and Joyce does seem to have a love-hate relationship with that part of his native country's culture. Have you noticed anything else except the importance of religion? (hide spoiler)]

[Samanta]

Response to Natalie

(view spoiler)[ Excellent thoughts/questions. Very spot on. I am really interested to read the answers to your own questions. Try also the discussion questions in messages 89-92. I would really like to know what you think. (hide spoiler)]

[Natalie]

(view spoiler)[

I think that the man in "An Encounter" is a child molester and when he steps away he is masturbating, or something of that ilk. He really ruins the potential of the carefully planned day for the boys.

/spoiler (hide spoiler)]

[Marren]

#115 Noirfifre checking in. I will be reading with you lovely bunch but as always I will most probably be going slowly than others. I will check in later in the week or weekend to read comments and maybe post in some tidbits. I joined because I have another of the author's book on a personal classic challenge so I said why not. In addition, since I joined the Irish Challenge, I figured this read fits in so nicely.

[Samanta]

Response to Natalie - The Encounter

(view spoiler)[ Although it is never explicitly stated (as it obviously couldn't not be at that time), I think he was, and a lot of signs point to that conclusion. (hide spoiler)]

[Samanta]

Response to Mark

(view spoiler)[ Fair enough, Mark! :) I tend to agree with you, because, honestly, a lot of stories in this collection left me confused and with questions marks swirling around my head (hide spoiler)]

[Samanta]

Noirfifre wrote: "#115 Noirfifre checking in. I will be reading with you lovely bunch but as always I will most probably be going slowly than others. I will check in later in the week or weekend to read comments and..."

Welcome Noirfifre! You are free to read at your own pace and post your answers if and when you want to. Looking forward to your input.

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

Response to Mark

(view spoiler)[Possibly it came later - well just go with them and take a stab. (hide spoiler)]

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

Response to Mark - message 122

(view spoiler)[Hmmm and that kind of idea is what got Joyce into trouble in the first place - he sort of conflated the two (lol) (hide spoiler)]

[David]

[1. What is the overall atmosphere of the story?

(view spoiler)[ I think this is a great leading story. It draws me into it making me want to read it more than once actually. Right from the beginning when the boy joins the conversation in progress between Cotter and his uncle, I felt a tone of suspicion and gossip between them. I found myself wondering "what did this priest do"? For the boy, it seems to be his first experience of the death of someone he was close to. He's not sure what to think or how to grieve. He ponders his relationship with the priest, he dreams about it and he makes a futile visit to where he is laid out the next morning and he returns with his aunt in the evening to pay his respect. We learn a lot about the boy's relationship with the priest during these moments. I don't get the feeling it was an abusive relationship but instead one in which the priest was attempting to influence a priestly vocation in the boy. Perhaps, in his decline due to his fading health and strokes, the boy was the only friend he had. The boy also is portrayed as a loner as it is vacation time and he mentions no friends or playmates and he is criticized by old Cotter for not engaging in normal youthful activities. Finally, the atmosphere in the house of mourning is one of fatigue and resignation for the priest's two sisters who have been his caretakers during his illness and death. Then, there is the heartwarming support offered by the boy's aunt toward the sisters. Her genuine dialogue with them leads to what I felt was a spiritual passage of time; an introspective mix of silence and reflection; a groping toward meaning, an effort to see the man who was their brother.
(hide spoiler)]

[Lynne]

Hi all, meant this to be my first buddy read but not sure I understand. Every post I see here indicates (spoiler removed) but literally nothing else. I'm using an iPad and see no function to activate or? In other words, I'm lost. And here I was thinking I'm computer literate ;)

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

I am not sure Lynne - I have never run into that. Don't use the mobile application site but the full site.