"The Grace of Kings" Final Thoughts *Spoilers*

[Sarah]

We finally get to discuss the entire book. What did you guys like or dislike? Spoil away :)

[Kim]

It was ok. I didn't throw it away and the second half was more interesting than the first.

[Stoyan]

I found the book rather uneven and here is why

1. The story felt stilted most of the time, with the exception of a few battles mid-book. This is especially disappointing because the narrative, if told well, could have been extremely powerful, emotionally. For example, the love story of Kuni and Jia feels like a flatline, even though the choices they make are heartbreaking. It does not read or feel like a heartbreak, though, more like a set of clinical observations delivered in a very detached manner. I feel that the most powerful character in the book is Mira and I think that this happened unintentionally, by accident.

2. I had a big problem with the character of Mata. There is this huge buildup early on -- the history of the Zyndu clan, Mata's childhood with his uncle, his astounding height and double pupils... It seemed to me Liu was building a positive character here of great significance. Arguably, he spends more time talking of Mata's early years than Kuni's. And then? Mata becomes the chief monster. And then? He returns to being this soft and fuzzy character who is able to trust Kuni again, who weeps when his woman kills herself and then dies in a very dramatic way. Dramatic, I say... as in, I felt I was watching a very over-the-top movie scene there. It's like Liu felt bad for the character so he gave him a very heroic death full of pathos. Quite undeserving of the earlier monster.

3. Speaking of monsters. Kuni's character is generally positive. However that scene where everyone scrambles to get on the air ship (the scene is utterly ridiculous) and at some point Kuni is prepared to leave his children behind, so he can save himself? A very false note for a positive character. Now, mind you, I get it that characters should not be uni-dimensional. The more complex the character, the better. George Martin is a master at that, for example. However, Liu does not even pretend very credibly to try to build complex characters. They all fall into neat categories. So, then this particular episode felt very wrong.

4. Strictly speaking, would this even be considered fantasy if not for the contrived and tortured Gods of Dara? I mean apart from them and the book that writes itself, what else qualifies as an element of fantasy. But why the Gods? I feel the book would not lose much if they are removed from the narrative.

5. The style often felt awkward. There are books which read smoothly... you don't notice how you turn the pages. This one felt like a struggle. And the similes often made me want to scream. Here is an especially irritating example: "Its wings seemed to be as wide and long as the spinning vanes of the windmills in Zudi that drew water from deep wells and piped it into the houses of the wealthy..." (p.4)

So what worked?

1. I study and write about politics and I felt that the political reality depicted in the book was very accurately captured. From how appearances are important, to how political necessity may lead to some very unpalatable choices. In that sense, the character of Cogo as the wise and self-effacing adviser was one of the most successful characters in the book. And by the way, have you ever read such a thorough discussion of the importance of taxes in a fantasy book before?

2. The characters and roles of women. There is a serious attempt to break away from more traditional depictions of women in a conservative society. Some women here are just embarrassing cliches. But on the examples of Jia, Soto, and Gin, there is an attempt to carve out a form of independence and self-awareness for women which is at least respectable. Now that Kuni is Emperor, dare he defy tradition and make women equal to men in his empire? I have not read The Wall of Storms so I don't know. But since there is supposed to be a big war in that book (again), women probably take the back seat.

3. Despite some awkward writing, Liu raises some very deep questions about the nature of love and friendship. The dynamic between Kuni and Mata is another heartbreaking story which could have been written in a much better way. Nevertheless, it rings true and it makes the book that much more credible. The choices that Kuni and Jia make? Very difficult and, again, realistic. But what I am not sure is realistic is how their love for each other supposedly survives all that. Still, food for thought.

There you have it from me. On balance, I am glad I read the book (after the fact) but if I had to do it all over again, I probably wouldn't.

[Keith]

The Bad: It got bogged down so badly in the beginning with the world building and historical stuff that it got hard to get through nearly half of it. There was too much added to the book that was completely unnecessary to the plot. The gods interfering with the mortals was "Clash of the Titans" re-revisted and did not add anything important. The characters also acted in ways which I found strange such as Mata Zyndu being a strong self assured person and then suddenly turning into a paranoid schizophrenic.

The Good: After you got through the first half (if you did) the author focused more on the plot and the story got more enjoyable. I liked the combination of steampunk and asian culture. I think my favorite character in the book was Gin Mazoti as she is smart and took no crap from anyone.

Thoughts: The author should change the title to "The Betrayal of Kings" as there wasn't much Grace to all the double-crossing. I ended up giving this book 3 stars but had I rated it after the first half I would have given it only one.

[Jen]

I agree that The Betrayal of Kings would be more accurate. I liked the first half of the book and thought I was going to love it... but around halfway I just pushed through to finish it. Going back and forth across the island in a neverending war just got old for me. There was so much richness to the story in the beginning that ultimately didn't really go anywhere. The paranoia and mistrust Mata had toward Kuni was unbearable. They were on the same side for pete's sake!

Something that was mentioned in the first impressions thread, about killing with a blade of grass, was something I thought was an elegant detail. I returned the book to the library so I don't have it word for word, but in the beginning the teacher said something about once you have the knowledge/training, you can kill with a blade of grass... something that Jia was able to do, with her knowledge of herbs and plants. I really liked that bit.

I liked the women in this story, particularly Jia. Gin was a powerful figure but ultimately just out for herself, much like everyone else.

At first, I thought the gods intervening was a cool element, but it didn't really add anything to the story. When the gods were interacting with humans, I was never sure which god it was and it didn't seem to mean anything or go anywhere. Just bickering and infighting and shifting/unclear alliances, just like the people in the story.

I wanted to like this book so much, but after finishing it I haven't given it much thought.

[Neil]

I did enjoy it - but it felt like constant character introductions all the way. I'd be fine with that if we were getting a 5 part epic and limited new characters in the next books but I fear that book 2 will be similar. felt a bit like character overload over story. But, having said that I'm excited to read the next book, just not chomping at the bit for it!

[Ellen]

I liked it but I too was disappointed in how Mata after the build up as his childhood turned out so jealous and mean. I did not like how his relationship with his Kuni ended. I also was disturbed at how he and his Uncle were split over the Princess. His Uncle's life goal had been for Mata to succeed. I thought that was very sad.

[Ken]

This book was great. It wasn't the greatest SF/Fantasy I've read by far, but it managed to do something interesting: set the stage for your classic hero journey, and then upend the whole thing onto the floor.

The story is set up to show the parallels (and contrasts) between Kuni Garu's thieving, mischievous, deceitful ways, and the honorable, classic strong-man hero of Mata Zyndu. In any other story, Zyndu's zeal for righteousness and masculine, martial strength would make him the shining knight who claims the kingdom (and the princess) in the end. Liu wanted to cast down this sort of He-Man trope and expose its weaknesses.

Ken Liu wrote the book with that in mind. He refuted it, providing criticism of that sort of tale. His portrayals of the gods of Dara similarly throws away the Western/Greek mythos of the good and the evil gods, and presents them all in natural complexity.

In his follow up book, without giving away any spoilers, I will say that he accomplishes this once again, and in an even stronger fashion. The Wall of Storms takes your expectations as to where the narrative arc will go following the conclusion of Grace of Kings, and dashes it. It then proceeds in a new, more interesting direction, much as Kuni Garu would.

Liu has proven he's able to write high fantasy imbued with Eastern aesthetics. He's proven he's also able to subvert the fantasy tropes, and grants equal power and respect to his female characters (especially in the second book).

[Jen]

Interesting perspective, Ken.

[David]

I finally finished it. It took much longer than I expected. My thoughts were very mixed. There were moments that I thought it would be a 5-star book and moments that I thought it would be a 2-star book. I eventually settled on somewhere around 3.25.

It looks like most of my thoughts have already been covered in this thread. I really liked the premise. I thought the storytelling fell far short of what it could have been.

My biggest complaint is that it makes Mata a POV-character for large parts of the book, but completely fails to make me empathize with him or step into his shoes in any way. The Mata chapters in the third quarter were incredibly tedious.

On the other hand, the Kuni chapters were mostly good.

It's easy to make the reader empathize with a likable, clever good guy. Making the reader empathize with a character like Mata is much, much harder and I don't think Ken Liu was really up to the task.

I feel like it might have been a stronger book if he removed all those Mata-POV-chapters and told those scenes from other characters' POVs instead. Unfortunately the other candidate characters aren't much better.

[Stoyan]

I agree with Jen, Ken. But my question is why? Why would Liu do that unless it somehow enhances the story... I agree he is doing it but it seemed more like a forced thing to me, not helping the story at all. But it is a very interesting insight all the same.

[David]

Stoyan wrote: "I agree with Jen, Ken. But my question is why? Why would Liu do that unless it somehow enhances the story...."

One thing that occurred to me was that Liu was drawing from a wide variety of inspirations and Chinese traditions, some of which he agrees with and some of which he doesn't. In particular, most of his classical Chinese inspirations are at least a little bit sexist. Since his book is modeled to some extent after the classics of Chinese literature, I don't think he wanted to rehash those stories or portray those values uncritically.

I agree that it occasionally felt a little bit forced. I don't mind those aspects being in the story but the storytelling could have been better, especially if he had done a better job of fleshing out the characters on both sides.

[Silvana]

I think the gods served no real purpose and did no service to the plot. It is better that he focused on the silkpunk part of the story (my fave part) rather than inane boring dialogue above mount olympus or wherever the gods hangout to bicker.

Gin came too late. I asked the author via another group about the presence of female char in the second book but he was coy about it. I am not sure now whether to continue or not.

[Alfred]

While the gods did not directly influence the outcomes, they did play pivotal roles in shifting the odds slightly towards their favored mortals. So, from that standpoint, they did serve a purpose, in my opinion.

[Benjamin]

Silvana wrote: "Gin came too late. I asked the author via another group about the presence of female char in the second book but he was coy about it. I am not sure now whether to continue or not."

Female characters often take center stage in Wall of Storms with Gin, the empress, Kuni's daughter, and a scholar all having major roles.

[Valerie]

I totally agree that this was a book with a lot of ebb and flow. At times I was totally engaged and at others, much less so. He would build his characters up as ideals, only then to either nudge or shove them off their pedestals. At the same time, there was a poetic quality to the story telling.

I also went back and forth on how I would rate this book as I read it. In the end, I went with a 4 because even during slow times, there were things that held my interest. There was never a time when I considered not finishing the book.

[James]

Late to the party here -- I finished reading last week and was pretty desperate for other people's opinions on it. All the reviews I read online were raving, which I did not understand. I thought this was just an okay read and mainly stuck with it because I want to get to Wall of Storms.

I agree the conflict between the gods was unnecessary. It would have been much better to allude to them as part of the culture of each state, but to make them active characters in the book muddled it completely. I understand Liu was going for a mix of politics and mythology here, but he should have stuck with just politics.

I felt that a lot of the interactions between characters were unconvincing and corny. I read another comment that said the tone of the dialogue was inconsistent, and I completely agree with that. Characters would vacillate between saying "I know not" and "I don't know" in the same conversation. Liu's narrative tone was also inconsistent.

I found the world building to be impressive, and the descriptions of technology development were pretty interesting. I found the story itself to be interesting, and I was turning pages most quickly during times when the plot was advanced through action.

I was on the fence between 2 and 3 stars halfway through the book, but in the end I think this is a solid 3. On to Wall of Storms.