Task #17: Read a classic by an author of color

[Teresa]

Katie, I'm doing the same, for the same reason! :-D

[Pamela]

Respectfully, I disagree with the author of the post who said in her opinion a classic should be 50 yrs old. Roots, Beloved, I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings, The Color Purple - I'd count all these as classics....

[Yrinsyde]

To the people reading Defoe for this challenge - he was English and had an English father, so not a person of colour.

[Yrinsyde]

A classic I've been intending to read is The Interesting Narrative of the Life of O. Equiano, or G. Vassa, the African - one of the earliest slave memoirs. Do memoirs count for this challenge? If not, then I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings is not eligible either.

[Carol]

memoirs can be classics. Classics need not be 50+ years old, but they need to have been around long enough to stand the test of time, at least a generation plus, IMO. Roots, IKWTCBS, sure. Swing Time is too recent for this category. YMMV. It's your challenge, at the end of the day.

[Carol]

Yrinsyde wrote: "To the people reading Defoe for this challenge - he was English and had an English father, so not a person of colour."

Did you mean Dumas?

[Bonnie G.]

Yrinsyde wrote: "To the people reading Defoe for this challenge - he was English and had an English father, so not a person of colour."

Dumas was black, You can be an English person of color.

[Henriette]

I'll be doing The Three Musketeers by Aleksander Dumas. It's about time.

[Yrinsyde]

My bad! Getting a bit confused there. I blame the heat wave.

[Ellyn]

For this category, I'm planning on reading One Hundred Years of Solitude. Do you think that would count as a "classic"? It was originally published in 1967.

I also love that people are reading Dumas! The Count of Monte Cristo is my favorite book!

[Kristin]

Native Son (Richard Wright)--could also count for Task 7! I saw an electrifying stage adaptation at the Court Theater in Chicago last year, but I have never read the novel.

[Zara]

What do we think about The Woman Warrior for this?

[Carol]

Zara wrote: "What do we think about The Woman Warrior for this?"

It's 40+ years old and Ms Kingston is an author of color. A fine fit for this task.

[Tytti]

Ellyn wrote: "For this category, I'm planning on reading One Hundred Years of Solitude. Do you think that would count as a "classic"? It was originally published in 1967."

I don't think Gabriel García Márquez is a "person of colour", whatever that means.

[Carol]

PoC means a person who is not white, or if European heritage. Marquez is Colombian.

[Tytti]

Carol wrote: "PoC means a person who is not white, or if European heritage. Marquez is Colombian."

And many Colombians are of European heritage. He looks quite Spanish to me. He is probably just as white as white Americans.

[Carol]

Tytti wrote: "Carol wrote: "PoC means a person who is not white, or if European heritage. Marquez is Colombian."

And many Colombians are of European heritage. He looks quite Spanish to me. He is probably just a..."

It's Ellyn's call, of course, which is the beauty of this challenge. Many would include his work for this task, but if a reader doesn't think a work fits the task, they make that call for themselves.

[Tytti]

I just don't see how being born in Colombia and speaking Spanish (or being Catholic) makes anyone "non-white". I could use that same criteria and call everyone born in USA or Canada as people of colour, as there is a possibility that they have a drop of African or Native American blood in them.

I suppose Mario Vargas Llosa is a "person of colour", too, as he is from Peru?

[Henriette]

Well, I'm reading Dumas - a Black french man. Is he more "rightly" a poc than a fair skinned colombian?

Are we gonna have a colour chart? Don't get me wrong - I think the debate is relevant, but I really can't figure out how you would chategorize in this challenge if not by "not kaukasian".

[Tytti]

But if people of European heritage ARE "Caucasian", then both Gabriel García Márquez and Mario Vargas Llosa are white. Unless you are saying that only people born in the US and Canada that are of European heritage (and speak English?) are white? Or does "Caucasian" somehow exclude South Europeans like Spaniards and Italians? (It did one time, or was more to do with religion, don't know. It also excluded Finns, which is why I find it funny. At one time, not long ago, Finns were not considered "white" and apparently we are the blondest people in the world.) Is Gisele Bündchen POC because she is Brazilian? Or does her German ("non-Spanish") heritage keep her white?

I am sure that if one was to ask either of the two gentlemen if they are "people of colour" they would think the person is weird. (Have you seen a picture of Vargas Llosa?!) I doubt they identify themselves as "hispanic", either, as they are not US Americans.

And if one wants to talk (I really don't) about POC then yeah, Dumas was one, so was Alexander Pushkin. I suppose that would also include the indigenous peoples of the Americas because the term originates from USA, I believe, and probably Asians, too, because why not. Basically I guess it is really saying that everyone who is not "of European heritage" (and English speaking) is "Other". Maybe it works in the US but it doesn't really work that well if applied to other parts of the world. (Btw, one of Pushkin's descendants married into the British Royal Family and was Prince Philip's aunt, so there are people in that branch who are also "POC"... If they had children, of course. Not sure if he is from that branch or some other: http://rbth.com/politics_and_society/...)

[Henriette]

The term confuses me as well. I'm still not sure how to distinguish, which is why I'm asking. I've always thought of Marquez as being hispanic. And Yes, Lloras is very white.
And some southern/eastern europeans are rather dark skinned. And globalization messes things up even more.
And what about people with a cultural background in the middle east born and raised in Denmark (where I live). Or the grandchildren of immigrants who might look middle eastern but act danish?

I think we might need an American to explain.

[Henriette]

But if doomed a poc then One hundred years of solitude would count as a Classic imo - at it is wonderfull!

[Carol]

This American would consider any South American-born author a POC. The purpose of this link is to assist each other in finding works that meet the task; everyone doesn't have to agree, of course, but it may be less helpful to focus on who is not a POC then to validate and support each other's choices. One Hundred Years of Solitude is a classic and an excellent choice, and a wonderful read that would expose any reader to a perspective and culture that is specifically and wonderfully Colombian, albeit circa 1967.

[Ashley]

Carol wrote: "This American would consider any South American-born author a POC. The purpose of this link is to assist each other in finding works that meet the task; everyone doesn't have to agree, of course, b..."

I agree with your sentiments. Thank you for saying that so eloquently, Carol!

[Bonnie G.]

Carol wrote: "This American would consider any South American-born author a POC. The purpose of this link is to assist each other in finding works that meet the task; everyone doesn't have to agree, of course, b..."

This American is in full agreement with that sentiment.

[Michelle]

My own take is that POC refers to people whose experience and/or writing places them outside the traditional Western canon. Writers from Asia, Africa, Central and South America, the Middle East, the Caribbean and South Pacific would count.

Writers living in Western nations, but who are not part of the ethnic majority such as African-Americans, indigenous people in countries such as Canada and Australia, and immigrants from non-European nations living in Europe would count.

People from Spain and Italy would not count, as they are European, even if their skin happens to be a bit darker than that of Northern Europeans. For example, in the U.S. those descended from Italian immigrants are not considered persons of color, but those descended from Africans are, as are Latino and Asian immigrants and Native Americans.

In the U.S., the term 'person of color' is a catchall phrase for those who have traditionally been denied equal treatment and full citizenship as a result of their ethnicity, such as those of Asian, African, Latin American or Native American descent.

Extending that use to the rest of the world, I take it as meaning writers in places historically colonized by Europe and the West, writing from the perspective of that culture.

Centuries after European colonization, lots of authors are going to be of mixed heritage, particularly in places like Latin America. I think whether or not I would count their book for this category has more to do with the perspective from which they are writing than whether or not they have a drop of European blood.

Marquez would qualify even if he has a European ancestor or two, while my spouse, who has a couple of drops of Mohawk blood, but was raised a white American would not.

Does any of that make sense?

[Carol]

Michelle wrote: "My own take is that POC refers to people whose experience and/or writing places them outside the traditional Western canon. Writers from Asia, Africa, Central and South America, the Middle East, th..."

Well-said, Michelle.

[Henriette]

Much, Michelle. Thank you!

[Tytti]

Carol wrote: "This American would consider any South American-born author a POC."

So it really has nothing to do with "race", skin colour or heritage, it's just a matter of nationality (and language)? Are Spaniards also POC because that's where their genes come from? Or many South Americans of German heritage?
This is a good article about that, IMO: https://www.pri.org/stories/2015-10-2...

What makes it even more weird, is that both Gabriel García Márquez and Mario Vargas Llosa, or their ancestors really, have probably belonged to the ruling class in their respective countries, because they are of European heritage and represented the colonising power. They are most likely not of mixed heritage (or not more than any average white US American). Even today in most countries they form most of the upper and middle class, or at least mainly belong to those classes. They are writing from the position of power, they might write about the under priviledged, but they themselves have never experienced the prejudices the people with (more) Native or African ancestry in their countries have because they are white (unless of course they have visited the US where they suddenly become POC because they speak Spanish). There is no common "Latin heritage", there are people in Latin America with European heritage from different countries, there are also people with Asian, African or Native heritage, just like in the US. There is no "hispanic" culture, either, countries in Latin America are all different, not to mention the Spanish culture.

Also I think that both the South and Central America belong to the "Western nations", the same way USA and Canada does, and for the same reason. Their "common" or main culture is not Native, it's European.

I have to say that I can't find any logic in this nor I understand the reasoning. Frankly it feels very racist or xenophobic to lump hundreds of millions of people with their own, individual heritage together like that.

[Carol]

Tytti, I hope you enjoy this task.

[Tytti]

Well I am pretty sure I won't be reading anything from Latin America because there are not that many POC authors coming from there. And as there are not that many in Europe, either, I am pretty much stuck with black Africans (excluding most South African authors who are mostly white) or African-Americans. Because this is an American categorisation, not used elsewhere in the world. And for me African-American authors are just "American authors", and I am not sure if I will be reading that much from USA. Or maybe I could read something by a Finnish author, before 1908 Finns were not considered Europeans in USA, we were Mongoloids or Asians because we spoke Finnish. Finnish lit doesn't really belong to "the Western Canon", either. The point is people rarely want to become defined or stereotyped from the outside. Calling white people with European heritage POC is just that, stereotyping them based on their nationality/language. That is not their experience or identity, nor it is the experience of the people who share the country with them.

[Tanya C.]

Michelle wrote: "My own take is that POC refers to people whose experience and/or writing places them outside the traditional Western canon. Writers from Asia, Africa, Central and South America, the Middle East, th..."

That's exactly it, Michelle. Thank you. You said that much better than I could have.

[Book Riot]

Tytti, we just wanted to jump in here and help to pull apart some threads of what is meant by an author of color. Michelle's post above is a great primer and what we at Book Riot tend to use when talking about POCs. We also have a post (question 3 is directly relevant to this issue) that might be helpful:

http://bookriot.com/2015/01/22/readin....

The point is that while the term POC is certainly not neat or easy or easily defined, the intention of the task is to encourage you to read a classic by an author that is outside the Western canon, which is heavily white. Let’s keep this thread to its intended use, which is book recommendations, and not a debate about the validity of the task, which you are free to skip if you fundamentally disagree with it or its purpose.

[Jenny]

Well said...............

[Bonnie G.]

Book Riot wrote: "Tytti, we just wanted to jump in here and help to pull apart some threads of what is meant by an author of color. Michelle's post above is a great primer and what we at Book Riot tend to use when t..."

Thanks BR and Michelle.

[Yrinsyde]

Yes, this is a better description and not as racist as POC sounds. Outside the Western Canon - that's perfect and that is how I am interpreting it. POC is used in the US only I think.

[Ashley]

Michelle wrote: "My own take is that POC refers to people whose experience and/or writing places them outside the traditional Western canon. Writers from Asia, Africa, Central and South America, the Middle East, th..."

Thank you very much for this, Michelle. It made a lot of sense to me, though being in the US perhaps I understood the concept of "person of color" already to a fair degree. Either way I found it very illuminating and easy to understand!

[Bonnie G.]

Carol wrote: "Tytti, I hope you enjoy this task."

:)

[Tytti]

Book Riot wrote: "The point is that while the term POC is certainly not neat or easy or easily defined, the intention of the task is to encourage you to read a classic by an author that is outside the Western canon, which is heavily white."

I am not quite sure how this is helped by reading a novel by a white Latin American.
"Whites presently compose the largest racial group in Latin America (36% in the table herein) and, whether as White, Mestizo, or Mulatto, the vast majority of Latin Americans have white ancestry."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_...

I did read a Brazilian novel recently, it was written by a man whose parents were a Portuguese and Italian, but I guess he magically became POC because he was born in Brazil and not in the US. He still looks like white European to me. Charlize Theron doesn't look like POC, either, even though she is African. (Or is it again the language that makes all the difference?) Is the current Pope POC? Why was it never mentioned when he was elected? (And wait, now Americans are also saying that the Sami people are POC, too? Sure, of course they are ones who know the best...)

So if you want to call white people of European heritage from Latin America "POC" because they speak Spanish and not English, then fine, but that doesn't mean that they are non-white, it just shows your ignorance. I really don't see how they are not a part of the Western culture or its canon, either. Their literature is written in the MOST spoken (as a native tongue) European language in the world (excluding Brazilian lit, of course) and they are mainly Christians, Catholics to be precise, and that is a Western religion. Not to mention there has been a lot of European immigration to Latin America, even after WWII.

Actually the whole "Western canon" is mainly only "the English language canon" with few classics written in other major European languages. Many European countries don't have any books in that canon, either (but the Nobel laureate Gabriel García Márquez certainly has). And if you want to talk about diversity, I have books originally written in 24 different languages, even though I don't even own a lot of books. If I were to count the different nationalities and ethnicities, the number would be even bigger.

There is a whole world out there that isn't defined by American notions of race. If asked, most Europeans would probably discern differences between a black person from UK and one from USA, not to mention Africa. It has more to do with ethnicity than skin colour. The same with people from different Asian countries, they are not just lumped together as "people of colour".

[Brooke]

Well this thread certainly went off the rails....I don't understand how this can be so controversial. Maybe that is my personal ignorance, but I just took this prompt to mean a class written by someone different from me.

I am not sure which book I am going to read between The Color Purple and Kindred. I already own The Color Purple (and saw the movie years ago) but I've heard so many good things about Kindred. I'll probably choose that one in the end.

[Bonnie G.]

Can we all ignore the troll?

[Anna]

Brooke wrote: "I am not sure which book I am going to read between The Color Purple and Kindred. I already own The Color Purple (and saw the movie years ago) but I've heard so many good things about Kindred."

You could slot "Kindred" in here, and use "The Color Purple" for Task 16: Banned or frequently challenged or #24: All POV characters are people of color. (They're both excellent books!)

[Brooke]

Anna wrote: "Brooke wrote: "I am not sure which book I am going to read between The Color Purple and Kindred. I already own The Color Purple (and saw the movie years ago) but I've heard so many good things abou..."

That sounds like a great idea, Anna! :)

[Elyse]

Emily wrote: "I´ll finally get to Their eyes were watching god by Zora Neale Hurston."

Ditto!

[Lisa]

I just finished Kindred for this topic. It was very well written and I really enjoyed it. Definitely recommend.

[Karen]

Somehow or other, I had never read "Their Eyes Were Watching God," not even for school. My classic fiction book club decided to read it for February, so I figured I'd use that for this task. I'm so glad I finally read it -- I found it so involving and lyrical and heartbreaking and inspiring. Just loved it.

[Book Riot]

Some more ideas for this task:

http://bookriot.com/2017/01/10/read-h...

[R.]

I am about to start Vasily Grossman's Life and Fate -- would it fulfull this challenge?

[Bonnie G.]

Life and Fate is a great book but there is not a single person of color in the book.

[Carol]

Bonnie wrote: "Life and Fate is a great book but there is not a single person of color in the book."

This task turns on the identity of the author, not the characters. The author, Mr. Grossman, is Jewish, of Ukrainian heritage. Many Jewish readers and authors identify as POC because they've often historically and currently not been accepted as white.