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Dwayne Fry - Fifty PLUS Free eBooks!
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I thought it was already rotted. *pokes brain with a stick* Yep.
Asmall gift for the weekendIn fast food joints Dwayne is a'writing
His delicate muse he's delighting
He's up to his eyes
In burgers and fries
And the calorie count is affrighting
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In fast food joints Dwayne is a'writing
His delicate muse he's delighting
He's up to his eyes
In burgers and fries
And the calorie count is affrighting"
Could I include that in the book when it's done?
Sure can Dwayne. It's a gift
Apparently I'd been sitting on a bunch of unreviewed books that I'd read of Dwayne's. Fixed that!
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DeGroot Seed farms are in red.
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Now I feel like it's a really real place.
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Second. I am a yellow-bellied chicken. I will be at a point with Suckers & Rogues, soon, where I really should show it to some beta readers and get their feedback. But, I am really paranoid about it and am uncertain that I will do it. I did not experience this fear with Rave On and the Beta Readers I had were fabulous, helpful, and had some great advice. But, I am petrified of the Beta Reader process with Suckers & Rogues. Why? Because I have already had people, authors and non, giving advice about the book, advice I cannot take. People who have not read one word of the story have said, "There's too many characters" or "It's going to be too long" or whatever. (The book is going to be, roughly, five hundred pages with fifty characters - that doesn't seem that weighty to me). And so, here in the SIA groups, people like to talk about what scares them as authors. This is the first time I've felt any real terror. I love the book. I am anxious to have it done. I cannot wait to publish. I have no fear of fans and public seeing it. But, I guess I have this (probably irrational fear) that Beta Readers will tear it limb from limb, telling me to change everything, including things I can't change.
Yikes.
It's ok, Dwayne. I too have a fear of beta readers. Hell, I have a fear of editors too. LolI have a strong sense of pride, you see... Especially if I love what I've written. That's not to say I don't want to hear it if something truly isn't working, or is an outright mistake (grammar, spelling, etc) but I cannot STAND to be told how to write my story. And some people can be really bad about that, offering, not advice, but judgements and almost biblical proportion, self-righteous snobbery.
Needless to say I'm extremely careful whom I allow to see my WIPs and early drafts. I say trust your gut. Only allow those you super trust to see it, and then proudly unleash unto the world!
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I guess it was the comments about "too many characters" and "it's going to be too complicated and confusing" that really bothered me. I can think of many shorter books with much bigger casts of characters. I have read books that are far more complex than mine and was able to follow them. I guess I am just worried sick - if people are already tearing the book down like this when they haven't seen a word of it, what will happen when people do read it? I will probably force myself to have it beta read. I know it's the right thing to do. But, I do hope I can find at least one or two who are familiar with my previous work and my style.
Well, I'm gone for the day, to work on this monster some more. Thanks again!
Here's the thing about beta readers: their opinions are not law. I am honestly so grateful to anyone who takes the time to tell me what they think of my drivel, but every so often, I get a suggestion that makes me scratch my head. My last two betas pointed out things that saved my butt from plothole hell, but each also made a comment or two that I didn't feel I needed to urgently address. But yeah, I also get the pride thing. Especially as someone who studied writing. Regardless, if you want opinions, you know where to look.
Oh, and I just want to add...(Cowbell intro)
♪C'mon, Dwayne♪
♪Don't fear the reader♪
♪Got your best interest in mind♪
♪Don't fear the reader♪
♪And all the typos they find♪
My personal opinion is NOT to release work without someone you trust, looking at it. Take it from someone who writes epic long stories as well as novellas. My novels Serenity, Destiny, Rain and River are all well over 100, 000 words. When a book becomes so long, it has plenty of room to have plotholes, lol. Let a fresh pair of eyes take a gander to see something we (the author) can't always see in the mist of ALL THOSE PAGES.As far as all the characters? So what? If you want them, have them! This is YOUR story to tell. But have a beta (or a few). Don't find out the hard (by bad reviews that will kill sales) that you have issues with the book's structure. Trust your writing, yes, but also trust your friends and fellow authors. If I had time to catch my butt when it itches, I would totally volunteer. Haha... But you have great group here to choose from :)
Good luck!
Dwayne's on the horns of a thingDoes he Beta or just let it swing?
Will his readers be wise
Or have s**t in their eyes
And then he heard Christina sing
I feel the same as India and Christina. It's YOUR book, and even though betas can be helpful, at the end of the day, you've got to believe in your story, and tell it the way you see fit, all billions of characters and all. ;)I would also volunteer as a beta (I know how to be nice with my feedback since I'm uber sensitive myself) but I'm so damn behind on my tbr list, it hurts. I've got books from all three of you I still need (and want) to read! Eep!
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Christina,
I'm not sure if this is a pride thing for me. Maybe. The people I know who are most proud are often completely unaware that they come off as proud. So, yes. It could be a pride thing. If it is, I need to see a doctor. I realize their word is not law, but what if I have a majority of the Beta Readers thinking I need to change some huge thing that I cannot? I guess I'm afraid what will happen if I start to doubt some huge thing that is to integral so the story I can't change it. But, I guess I'll worry about that if it happens.
Oh, and I got a fever. And the only prescription is more cowbell!
India, you make a good point. And I will look for some betas. This is the longest thing I've written for publication and, yes, there are thousands of places I could have messed up. I had hoped to publish in July, but have decided to move it to September, just because I'm seeing how massive the editing on this is becoming. I'm finding numerous places I rushed a scene and have been spending a lot of time rewriting bits that were far too fast and short. So, yes, this thing is plagued with errors and I probably won't catch them all alone.
Jane,
Another poem? Just for me? Christina has a lovely voice, I'm sure.
Lyra,
I think the word "sensitive" is appropriate here. Some of my work, I tossed it out there and didn't give it much of a thought. This one is very personal in a lot of ways and I'm madly in love with it, which is making me very sensitive about it. It's going to hurt to hear people say they hate this part or that character, but I guess that's all part of the fun, right?
So sorry I'm late! Huge comforting and supportive hugs, Dwayne. I agree with everyone here and would like to add something based on a piece of your own advice you dispensed many times. Whenever an author is struggling between re-editing or publishing, you advise them not to publish until they are completely happy with their work. Knowing this is what you do yourself, my advice is for you to trust yourself. I have all the confidence in you to know when you need to ask for an opinion and to know when you're ready to publish. You're an old pro now! Have faith in yourself! Hugs!!
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For the most part, I do trust myself and I am mad about this book. Yes, it's still rough in the stage it's in, but it's getting there.
Now... I know it's in poor form to openly complain about reviews, so I want to state that this is not a complaint. I am only bringing up a review as an example of what is frightening me. I won't go into specifics, but I have a short story out that is a bit different, experimental, goes against some of the "rules" of writing. I received a review today knocking the book, citing all the things about it that make me proud, and the reviewer found fault with it. Not a big deal in this case. I stand by that story and the review doesn't bother me... BUT I never was in love with that one, like I am this novel. Not sure how I'll handle feedback that cuts apart the things about this book that I love.
I know I'm being silly. I know I'm being a coward. I am going to look for beta readers, no matter how high this anxiety goes. I know not everyone is going to love this novel. I know there will be things in it that bother some people. But, more than anything I've written recently, this is me really baring my soul and saying, "this is what I think of the world". I know it's going to hurt when people don't like it - and I know that's going to happen. But, it is a necessary pain, like tearing off a Band-Aid (x1,000,000).
I'll tell you a thing, Dwayne. Although I'm not as prolific a writer as you I do have one favourite child. There are bits of it that are pure me. And that is kinda scary.So, while I generally don't mind what anybody says about any if the others, I am a bit thin skinned about that one.
And I was crapping myself about having people read it. But it's okay. Somehow just putting it out there was so painful that people's opinions are largely irrelevant.
Get it beta read. Swallow the fear and shoot it out.And take whatever of value they give you.
I get twitchy about sending my sexy stuff to betas sometimes. I have one of my critiquers thinking one of my MCs is a sexual predator for things he's done and I don't think so at all! SO, now I'm even more nervous sending more things to him. /sigh.
At that length I would expect some convoluted, intricate plotting. 50 characters is tough, as a reader I couldn't keep track of all them, but I would assume as a writer, you've made them distinct enough so I can. :)
Love the book!
Dwayne wrote: "First things first, I released a short story today.Second. I am a yellow-bellied chicken. I will be at a point with Suckers & Rogues, soon, where I really should ..."
Dwayne, I encourage you to continue to use your beta readers. You can easily ignore a comment from one of them but if ALL of your beta readers criticize a particular aspect of the book, then it's probably something you should address before it's published.
However, I think you should ignore any comments from people who haven't even read it yet. When I wrote my latest book, I had a lot of people (including my wife) who were "nervous" that I was tackling a sensitive subject and afraid I would ruin my reputation. This was before they even read it. I proceeded, but it was difficult and it caused a lot of anxiety. In the end, I received a lot of positive comments from people who thought I shouldn't have even written it.
More comforting and supportive hugs, Dwayne. I'm a very sensitive, emotional, and thin-skinned person. Whenever I put my all into something be it a story, a painting, or a piece of jewelry, I always prepare myself for harsh criticism. It doesn't make it hurt any less, but it has helped me keep a stiff upper lip and not fall apart. I have also learned to differentiate criticism. Most people are tactful when giving criticism and are honestly trying to make a valid point. However, I know some readers might not consider how much of myself I put into my work and may be blunt or unkind in their review. I expect this and it will hurt like hell, like having alcohol poured onto an open wound. I keep telling myself it's all part of it, and since I really want to do this, I can handle it. You are doing it, Dwayne. You can handle it. We're all here for you. Huge Hugs!!
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And if one sparrow doesn't make a summer, one beta doesn't make or unmake a book. Follow your gut. If many point out the same problem, then you'll know there is a problem, but until you take the plunge, you will never know.
I certainly understand the hesitation and the fear, Dwayne. I get that every time I put my writing out there because I treat writing like a birthing process, the product as my child. I want that child to thrive and be accepted and no harm come done to them.Beta are there to provide a different aspect on how to see your writing. Like teachers, counselors, aunts or other people. But it is still your child. You control what you implement or not. Remember that you can't please everyone but know that there are people out there who will love your child!
You can do it! It might be fun to use a pen name if it's driving you too crazy. I think the more anyone talks about nerves, the more nervous you get. My 2 cents! :)
And, Dwayne, I am about to experiment this week with my betas. I discussed an idea I've seen other authors use with them and they have stepped up to be ginny pigs. Since some of my work is so extensive, I am giving only 3 chapters at a time. This way they don't feel rushed nor overwhelmed.If interested, I can let you know if this is genius... or a disaster, lol.
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Yes. Some of this novel is pure me, too. It started as a mingling of one part telling a tale of a group of young people doing a summer job and one part looking at society, but it's also becoming a mirror, in which I'm seeing my own reflection and my own faults, past and present. While the story itself is fiction and the characters are one part people I knew and twenty parts fiction, there is an underlying truth in the whole thing that has been liberating to deal with, but frightening at the same time.
Nat,
People will really hate some of the things my main character does and does not do. But, he's young and naive and has a lot of space to grow. I am a little worried some readers will give up on him early on. I can definitely relate. In my first novel, in the early drafts, the main character came across as a total stalker and that is not what I intended him to be. I did a lot of rewriting on that one to make him seem less creepy.
E.A.,
I can relate. There are some sensitive subjects in this novel. Also, the language is pretty raw. The characters are teens in the mid-eighties, so by today's standards they will come across as being "politically incorrect" quite often.
Sam,
Thank you! Bottom line, I think the reason I felt the need to admit to this openly is, I feel the need for some emotional support. I need to know that others are scared of beta readers, but they went through it and came out alive. The first novel was easy as it was a romantic comedy thing with a main character who was nothing like me. Ben, this main character, is not me, either. But, we do share many of the same thoughts, feelings, anxieties, etc. (And the poor guy, I always write him to look like me).
G.G.,
I don't get the jitters. That's what's making this so weird and why I felt I needed to talk about it. I usually have no fear of writing or the process. Usually I run the gamut between being excited and being bored. Sometimes frustration when a story is not turning out as interesting as I thought it would. Fear is new and weird. I don't like it and I'm trying to make it go away. You guys are all certainly helping!
Jannie,
Thank you. Yes, more than most things I've written, this one feels like a child. And this one will not be loved by all, I know that. It will be abused and hated by some. It's an ugly child, in some ways. I guess that's a lot of what I'm afraid of. Betas might think I need to fix this or that as it's "too much" but if I soften parts or leave them out, the whole thing will crumble.
M.L.,
Thank you for the suggestion, but I can't really use a pen name on this. The main character has already appeared in several of my short stories and many of the other characters have been in several other stories of mine. Everything I do is connected and doing this under another name would be like leaving a huge piece out of a puzzle. Otherwise, it's something I might consider.
India,
That's actually what I did with my first novel, which was only 135K. This one threatens to come out over 200K. I might give people the option of having one chapter sent at a time or having the whole thing sent.
Okay, serious question. At over 200k, is there any natural breaking point where you could make this two books? I'm thinking as a reader and scheming as an author.
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Okay then matey. Do it. Get some feedback from people you trust. It sounds to me as if you are trying to do something quite important here. So Do Not Let It Slip Through Your Fingers....
I just finished reading the first three Mistborn books. I like long books--when they are interesting and I want to know what happens next (aka: active and full of tension). If the long book is blah blah blah, then yeah, not so keen on those. I find myself frustrated when a book just CUTS OFF and the author is all 'read the next section in book 2'! Gah! Each book needs an obvious plot arc and resolution. As Christina said, it needs a natural breaking point. If you can work that, then cutting it would make sense.As Jane said, see what your trusted minions have to say about it.
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Oh, I'll do it, Jane. I just needed a push and you guys have really helped. This is the first time I have felt afraid, but I need to push it aside and let some Betas rip my book up. It could be more damaging to the book not to let anyone see it until it's published.
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I don't believe mine is "blah, blah, blah". I know what you mean. I hate books like that, too. Long as it is, there is plenty going on. I don't waste huge numbers of pages describing the farms and the workers. There's action, tragedy, love, hate, fights, flirting, quite a few funny bits... I don't think it's going to bore anyone. God, I hope not!
But, the cutting off... that could be a problem. They way it is worked now, everything builds and builds through the book. There are some minor resolutions of things, but the main plot is not resolved until the next to the last chapter. Splitting it might work, but readers may feel frustrated in having to keep buying the next book to find out what happens in some of the major plots.
We'll see what the betas think.
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I was probably a bit hasty earlier when I said people don't seem to like long books anymore. I am at the library today and ducked into the fiction section to grab that Donna Tartt novel everyone was reading a year or two ago. The Goldfinch? (I haven't read it). It's well over seven hundred pages. So, yeah, sometimes people still read long books.
Okay, here's the deal. Based on my entirely unscientific study of creeping on Goodreads reader comments, people prefer long books in certain genres, mainly of the epic fantasy and quest variety. Literary and Pop Lit do well with longer books as well, but these genres are overwhelmingly dominated by the trads and getting an indie foot in the door is difficult.In my opinion, which is always right mind you, Dwayne is one of the best contemporary Pop Lit writers I've read, and that's taking into account trads and Indies. Which is why I'm scheming. Long books are great if you can get people to read them, but a free first book is a great driver to the rest and there is always the idea of doing both. Treat it just like a series and sell both the shorter parts and the entire collected work as one.
Okay, I'll stop playing dime store literary agent now. ;-)
Dwayne wrote: "Jane wrote: "Okay then matey. Do it. Get some feedback from people you trust..."Oh, I'll do it, Jane. I just needed a push and you guys have really helped. This is the first time I have felt afra..."
Hope you are feeling back on solider ground now. I really like your stuff.... But I do understand the scare of putting a bit of your soul out there.
Hugs, Dwayne. I enjoy reading long and involved stories and look forward to reading this book or books you are discussing. My take is, if you believe in it passionately, and it sounds like you do, then you must develop it and share it. You simply must. Fear be damned. I know, easy for me to say when I haven't published a thing. I'm having a personal crisis that is stifling all forms of creativity... and I'm working on that. Still, I know the stories I have to share will the world will not all be well received, but that's not going to stop me.You've always been here for us, Dwayne. We're all always here for you! Hugs!!
Dwayne wrote: "Nat wrote: "If the long book is blah blah blah, then yeah, not so keen on those. I find myself frustrated when a book just CUTS OFF and the author is all 'read the next section in book 2'! Gah! Eac..."Sounds good then! Yeah, longer introspective works don't work for me. I like short introspective, but there is only so much in the narrator's head I can do with nothing actually 'happening'.
Sounds to me, imho, that it should be one book. I wouldn't want to alienate readers.
Sounds exciting though!!
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If I do not split it up, here's something to keep in mind. I have, right now, three short stories based on characters from Suckers & Rogues* and at least one more on the way. They are all 99c and will probably all be free now and then. When the novel is published, I can advertise the novel in the stories, so that if anyone really likes the stories, they might go take a look at the novel.
*Not to mention, two short stories and a big cameo in Ambrosia's book for older, adult Ben, the central character of Suckers & Rogues.
**Since I have you slated as a beta reader, you can give me an opinion when you reach the half-way mark if you believe Suckers & Rogues should be split. I know it can, but I'm hesitant for a number of reasons.
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It's so weird how deep this fear is running, too. As I've mentioned 100k(x100) times in this thread, I normally do not get scared of anything when it comes to writing. A little nervous now and then, yes. Frustrated? Yes. But, terrified? Never. So, this is a new thing for me.
I told my wife the other day that I think Suckers & Rogues will blow Rave On out of the water, that it is a hundred times better. She said, "I doubt that" and it about made me crumble in horror and depression. It took a long time to come around, realizing she's just being supportive of the novel she's already read. So, now I'm bound and determined to prove her wrong and blow her away with this novel.
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I'm gonna do something writers almost never do: Do NOT read my novella The Asphalt Carpet. I reread it recently and I still like it. There are some good moments. But, my GOD!!! I spent a lot of time in Daniel's head, analyzing instead of making shit happen to him. I don't allow myself to go back and rewrite books once they're published, but if I did, that would be first in line.
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Sam Sam Thank you, ma'am! (Sorry).
I can't wait until you publish! You're going to have about five hundred people here cheering so hard for you!
I have to admit, I agree about the shorter length for ebooks, 40-60K words, but that cover for Suckers and Rogues has (to me) an epic feel about it, that's what it seems to promise. You could always publish it without a beta reader and spare the agony of waiting for feedback, which I think would be torturous. I also think they will love it, just from the comments I've read. More of my two cents. :)
Dwayne wrote: "Sam Sam Thank you, ma'am! (Sorry).I can't wait until you publish! You..."
I'm also anxious for me to publish... I ain't getting any younger! Hugs!!
*elbows Jane for an appropriate poem*
Pompoem, pompoem, pompoemThis writing, said Dwayne, is a chore
I've been at it a fortnight or more
The rogues and the suckers
Are obstinate f****rs
And they treat me like I was a whore
This wasn't so easy because I had publication rhyming with mast*******n in my head. And it would not go away...
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I have decided the next Happy Clown Burger book will be written entirely in fast food restaurants.
Now I just need to get up the courage to go..."
Don't do it Dwayne. We would miss you too much if all the fast 'food' rotted your brain