Romance Writers & Readers discussion
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Doin' the nasty with NOT the hero...
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Oh I hope it's OK. I have written something similar...hero just exorcising his lust with an anonymous female as he's not able to have the girl of his dreams. :-/ Bit seedy but it fits the story. I've actually not detailed very much, but it's over pretty quickly! ;p
So, I say it's OK!
Ah, Bree, I think you asked this same question on the RWA Emerging Author's FB Group! I didn't realise you were the same person until now. :D
Ah, this is a great question:) I definitely think it's okay to have that scene if that's what you want to do. Every story is different and if you think it fits, then keep it:) To me, there's never anything wrong to write, it's a matter of tastes. I'm all about the love. Ask Princess Jane and Mistress Ann, gimme lovey dovey all day, all the time. *big smile* *hands bucket to Mistress Ann* *wink*It was a great sex scene, and you can totally keep the fact she sleeps with someone else (behind closed doors for me) because I personally prefer not to read (the actual sex) about the hero/heroine having sex with someone who isn't their love interest. For me, it takes me out of the story. Gimme more sex between the hero and heroine then. That's what I wanna see.
Can't wait to see what everyone else thinks:)
In my first (and only) book I have a short scene close to the beginning where the hero gets together with a woman (not the heroine) as he is trying to get the heroine out of his head and deal with some issues. I think this kind of thing can work but it should be kept short and the placement should be kept toward the beginning of the story because like the above poster says, it could take a reader out of the story if it's an awesome sex scene and we're already too invested in the main characters getting together. I tried to avoid that happening for my readers by working into the scene the hero having thoughts of the heroine while getting together with another woman. I wouldn't say never do it, because it all depends on where our characters lead us. Right now, my characters on book two are leading me to the ever dreaded writers block, but who knows what these characters will be doing tomorrow lol.
I think it's better to save any kind of explicit sex scene for between the main couple. The hero or heroine might be sexually involved with someone else in the beginning, but it's important to decide if their sexual encounter really needs to be detailed or if a quickie or fade-to-black event will suffice. If the hero or heroine has some issues with sex, maybe a scene with an earlier partner emphasizing that issue could work.
I've definitely had some sex outside of the main couple. That said, I haven't gone overboard with the scenes. I think it's okay as long as the main couple eventually reaches their goal. I think this sort of thing is a given, especially with love triangles.
J. wrote: "I've definitely had some sex outside of the main couple. That said, I haven't gone overboard with the scenes. I think it's okay as long as the main couple eventually reaches their goal. I think thi..."Just to clarify, Bree's isn't a love triangle, it's just a guy to take her mind of the hero (that she isn't with yet). :)
Is it OK to detail that sex scene? Or even to have her having sex with someone else? Would behind closed doors be alright? Or does that take away from the romance of the actual getting together of the main characters?When it comes to screwing around (by either party) outside the "main show", I'll reiterate what others have said already - if you think the story calls for it, do it.
As to detailing out the scenes, same idea. There might be elements of the character which need to be revealed before the main characters hook up, they might involve sex and if done right I could see how this could make the final hook-up more compelling rather than less.
Personally, I don't have a problem with either concept. In one of my WIPs the heroine is a sex worker who is shown servicing clients at least twice in the first book and both scenes are detailed out. My reason; I dislike the "fake courtesan" trope (you know, where the heroine is a sex worker but for often very contrived reasons she never actually has sex with her clients, pbbbbbbt to that, I say) and wanted to avert it.
As far as the hero or heroine going to bed with someone just to get their mind off the main love interest...I'm not a fan of that to be honest. That action amounts to the character using another human being as a tool, and to me that's not sympathetic behavior in a character I'm supposed to root for. Now, if its done to show how flawed a human being the character is, I could see it working, but in general people don't 'get over' the mindset of other-people-are-props.
Mod
*frowns*
Do I even wanna know what the heck's in this bucket? ^_~
Great question, Miss Bree! And sorry, I didn't answer earlier. Having serious issues with GR.
*frowns more*
But anyhoo, I personally dig "unfiltered" writing. If it fits the story and more importantly, the characters? I'm in full support. I'm a huge fan of very TTL heroes (and heroines but didn't consider the ladies till just now haha) and I mean, real people sleep with other real people who aren't the "one" eh? Meh.
It's cool.
Haha the bucket is for you in case you get sick from all the lovey doveyness! *huge smile*
Mod
Oh...
I think it is always okay to do whatever is right for your story. Some people may like it some may hate it, but if its the way the story goes its the way it goes, and you can't make everyone happy all the time. Personally I wouldn't enjoy seeing the main characters in a romance book sleep with someone else, but it wouldn't make me not read a book if that was part of it.
Amanda wrote: "I'm all about the love. Ask Princess Jane and Mistress Ann, gimme lovey dovey all day, all the time. *big smile* *hands bucket to Mistress Ann* *wink*"Apologizes once again to Queen Amanda for killing off one half of my couple at the end of my first series!!
Annie wrote: "It's not for all the blood when I go on a character-killing spree?Oh..."
Yes forget what Queen Amanda says it's most definitely for all the blood from the serial killer you're gonna write one day who is running around killing every character he can find! (>‿♥)
Hey, I'll grab that bucket. Vampires get messy!! ;P Hmmm...I was just gonna hook up my witch with a witch, but changing my mind.
My "vampire" has already disposed of his lust in a willing female.
Maybe I need to keep the focus on the main two now they've 'done it'.
But then the poor witch is very stressed and does need some relaxation! Hmm...I'll see what she says as I begin writing today.
Man, this bucket is really making it's rounds around here. *hands out a few more* With blood, you guys apparently need a few more.Anyhoo, sorry for getting off track, Bree! Don't fill a bucket up with my blood. *chuckles*
As a reader, I don't like it. Shelly Laurenston did it once and it turned me off completely. (Although in her case the heroine was supposedly deeply in love with the hero yet there she was, doing some other guy by a river.) Guess I'm old fashioned when it comes to my heroes and heroines. But even though I might not like it, someone else might not even care so really it's up to YOU.
So as a reader, I wouldn't mind if the heroine was doing the dirty with someone else... under circs that made sense to the story... but if that sex scene was really hot... that would screw things up for me. I'd be like, ok, so if she had this earth-shaking sex with this dude... and wow, this scene is so hot... is she really into the hero?I guess I'm saying that it's ok if the sex in the scene isn't that good. ;P
M Jane
Mod
Yessss! I totally agree with this!! I love d*ck-measuring contests where the h the judge and the H wins!
*claps excitedly*
I was thinking how do you write a sex scene that's only okay and not amazing? Reminds me of an ace British Mini series - Doctor Foster. After she find her husband cheated, she did the same with his best friend. When she reveals the outcome to her husband" You are bigger than him, but I came hard".
Can't beat a strong woman.
I have a scene in a book I've written where there's a sex scene outside of the main couple before they are *together*, and the hero ends up watching the heroine and the other man have sex through a window while the heroine knows that he's out there watching, and agrees to let him watch (and he, well... does the nasty with himself outside the window, too, heh!)So, basically, it's consensual all around except for the man she has sex with (oops), but even so some of my readers saw it as cheating, though in all honesty it was almost a shared sex fantasy for the main couple... So I decided to keep it anyway. I thought it was hot, heh :)
TL;DR: some readers dislike sex outside of the main couple, but I'm all for it if it serves a purpose (or is hot).
I think if it fits the story then go for it. I personally don't mind if the story is written in the right tone for the story being told. I read a book a long time ago (I can not remember the name of it) and the writer went so far to not have the characters have ever had sex with anyone else, that the heroine was a virgin. Ok that is not so bad. But the hero was a widower with a young son. Guess what it comes out that he married his deceased wife knowing she was pregnant with another man's baby and that he himself although having been married was still also a virgin.
Ummm no! For me I hated the book instantly and did not finish reading it. That is taking the "virgin" no sex but between main characters way to far. I can see a great guy marrying a young girl that he went to school with cause she was pregnant. I can not see any man being married and not having sex at LEAST ONCE with his wife. I see said man leaving the marriage if said wife refused to have sex with him ever, but was running around having sex with everyone else.
So finishing up this teeny little rant: If it fits the story then sex between non-main characters is great. But do not restrict sex between just the main characters to the point of hurting the story with some unrealistic scenario.
A.S. wrote: "I think if it fits the story then go for it. I personally don't mind if the story is written in the right tone for the story being told. I read a book a long time ago (I can not remember the name o..."I don't think I've ever read that scenario before. Haha....it sounds crazy unique. I like the creativity by the author, though, even if it didn't fit right for you:)
Mod
If you (the royal you haha) can make me believe it, then yeah, give it to me. If I'm rolling my eyes for an entire chapter...well, umm...
*deletes off Kindle* XD
And just for the record, I have a "healthy" imagination and read some pretty crazy shizz, including prison-worthy abusive relationships, human trafficking, etc. LOL
I am all for fun times between characters (any characters) as long as it fits the story. I definitely just wrote the heroin doing the nasty with the guy she was with before she ends up with the main guy so yeah, I guess I do that. If it works, it works. or maybe I'm just a fan of people doing the nasty in books...hmmm. Must think on that
I just gave my secondary/support character a good time. She needed it, bless her. ;-) There was plenty of steamy detail. Yeah, hope you went for it in yours xx
I think it's fine. It can create angst for the MC (if she feels bad about it or regrets it) and potential tension between her and the guy she really wants (if he finds out about it).Got for it!
I think it creates a very good balance and I would make it as well developed as you can muster. Also I think it adds spice to it. Maybe an unexpected twist.
Mod
The H is a slave trainer whom abducts the h and proceeds to do very slave-trainer-esque things to her *smirks* Anyhoo, at one point (in book 2, I believe?) he actually sleeps with another girl while she's watching. Like, not through the window or from the closet but in the room watching LOL
So, yeah, depends on subgenre too? XP
Mod
That was in book 2, right? My brain gets all foggy on what happens in which book. Hence the reread hahahaha!
Annie wrote: "[spoilers removed], Princess Jane. [spoilers removed].That was in book 2, right? My brain gets all foggy on what happens in which book. Hence the reread hahahaha!"
Haha, yep book two
Oh, I have book two on my list to read. In fact, I was going to start it soon! Interesting!!
I too had forgotten about this thread. context - historical romance (Civil War Era), Love triangle situation
What are your thoughts on the h doing it with both Hs? (yes they are both Hs)
Wait... let me clarify...not at the same time...at different points in the story.
Are you trying to make the hero jealous? How do you want your readers to feel about the heroine? If there is going to be another hero/heroine I'd give the illusion of a sexual encounter and not necessarily a detailed description.Carol S
So I wrote a love triangle where the heroin slept with her boyfriend and eventually when they ended, she slept with the other guy. I've never once had anyone say that she should have had sex with the boyfriend before the main hero. Never. I think it's all around the context. Readers seem to be able to rap their minds around sleeping with your significant other even if it's not the person they end up with. I've noticed readers get really huffy over cheating
This is a great question! In a follow-up book I am outlining, this happens. TWICE. My heart was screaming, he can't sleep with someone else, he loves her! People will hate me!But if you're writing something REAL - then yeah, people sleep with other people.
But I would say get inside your hero/heroine's head and talk about that turmoil too, to keep them sympathetic to your readers.
I love this thread! I released a novel this year that has the SAME situation. It's awesome to read about others exploring this issue. My h has sex with someone else, not the Hero, and WHOA there were some strong reactions from reviewers. I think ultimately it's a great reminder that some people will like it and some people will hate it. But no matter what - we owe our characters honesty. Reality is messy, relationships are messy... I'd rather write 'messy' than sugarcoat things or (worse) edit out important situations/contexts/character development because of the off-chance someone might take offense. xo
I so agree LM and Alyne. Real life is messy. Sugar-coated romance isn't my thing, I prefer it grittier. In the situation I refer to above it is really messy since the h is doing it with the H who is married at the time, though she isn't. I know cheating drives some people nuts, so this story just isn't for them, but there are plenty of stories out there that are. I agree that we have to write our characters as they are not what readers want them to be. Most people are not totally who they want to be, we all make mistakes and have regrets. I think big character flaws give ample opportunity for big character arcs.
It's also important to keep in mind the intended audience and why people are reading a story. Escapism is a huge draw for fiction readers, and they only want so much real life. Any story can have the main characters having sex with other people because that's what happens in real life. But there are real life situations where the MCs aren't having sex with other people or haven't had sex in a while, and there are readers looking for those kinds of stories. The main consideration where sex is involved in any story is what is the purpose of the sex to begin with. If it's just to show that the MC's have sex with other people because that's what people do, how heavily will that random fact work against the overall romance? Personally, I like a romance where sex --and especially sex described in detailed--is reserved for the MCs. Granted, a fade-to-black scene or an after-sex scene with other characters might be all right, but if the author's only point is to show that people have sex, I doubt if I would rate the book very highly when I finished it, if I finished it.
Agreed Kathy, the sex has to have a purpose and not just for the sake of sex because it is real. If you describe every sexual encounter even between the MCs it kind of bogs the story down. So back to purpose. In the case I describe above the purpose is because it is part of the character development for the H and h in this case. I think this particular story tends to the realistic side because the intended audience isn't necessarily true romance readers but more historical fiction with strong romantic elements. So a historical fiction reader would expect more realism than a romance reader who might be reading for escapism.
With all that said the other H is a virgin until he's 25, and that has a purpose too.
I agree that it all depends on your audience. I think the situation is the key to readers accepting sex with another person and not. Cheating typically gets an automatic zing from readers/reviewers. Typically. I say usually because I had my H kiss the man she ends up with in a scene, but at the time of the kiss, she was with someone else. But you know what? No one so far has commented on that kiss. Maybe because the H gets all angry about it after or maybe because he's the guy she ends up with. I have no idea.
Anyway, I think it's tough for us indie's in this capacity. If you read Beautiful Disaster by Jamie McGuire, Travis sleeps with other women. He might not be with Abby at the time, but it still happens when he's in love with her. And you know what? No one condemns him for it. We still love him. We still think he's the best thing ever, because he is.
Maybe it's a guy vs girl thing?
I don't know the book you are referring to but kissing isn't the same as sex. I'd say kissing someone else by the H or h isn't going to raise an eyebrow for most readers but full blown sex especially when written descriptively is a horse of a different color. I think there is still a sexual double standard that is clearly present in some romance particularly historical since you have to consider the moral standard of the day. But there are also some readers who will dnf a contemporary for having it.
I think the situation we are discussing concerns meeting readers expectations and when it comes to that part of it may be how the book is marketed to the readers. So is the author targeting the right audience? Even with that done correctly, some readers won't like particular things in a given book. I know as a reader I rarely find a book where I love everything, but I'm a pretty critical reader.
Obviously, we all have different tolerance levels for things like level of sexual heat and the same holds true for sexual standards. Good thing there are so many different stories out there so we all get something we want, eh? To each his own.
Wondering what the general consensus is - there is a scene in my book where the heroine has sex with someone other than the hero. She's not with the hero, but she is trying to get him out of her head/heart (unsuccessfully, of course).
Is it OK to detail that sex scene? Or even to have her having sex with someone else? Would behind closed doors be alright? Or does that take away from the romance of the actual getting together of the main characters?
What do you all think?
PS: The sex scene is really good, so if I chop it out of this book, it'll find a place somewhere else... :-)