Christian Theological/Philosophical Book Club discussion
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There are two podcasts from the Reasonable Faith. The Defenders podcast will take you through the tenets of the faith. I have gone through series 1 and 2. William Lane Craig has a companion book by the same name; ie Reasonable Faith.I have read the book Reading the Bible for it is Worth. It is good and helps in understanding how to approach the different type of literature found in the Bible.
As you study a topic, you will no doubt encounter recommended books on the topic.
Thanks, Brit. I've started the Defenders series a few days ago. Podcasting is great because it lets me pause the show and take furious notes :)
And I listen while doing things around the house or driving. You may also like Biblical Training. It has its own app. Only drawback is that I cannot increase the speed as in my podcast app. I like listening at 1.5 speed.
I know you said that you want to focus on theology, but if you are looking for like-minded believers, the facebook group Christian Apologetics Alliance (CAA) is a community of Christians who are always willing to help with apologetic-related questions. They also have archived Bible studies which are aimed at apologetics.
Hey David. Glad you found your way here.I've been enjoying W.L.C. for many years now. The defenders class was very interesting. I'm always excited to see what Reasonable Faith is up to.
... however, Craig isn't what I would call a total Bible believing Reformed Christian Apologist. (He's a great guy - don't get me wrong). But he's an egghead academic scholar who gets bogged down in the University Club secular science group. He seems to bend the rules on occasion so he isn't kicked out of the Thinkers club.) Rules That I think those who fully accept the Bible need to be very careful with. You know: all those miracle events and wars --- and the wrath of God. Erase a miracle or 2 (and creation) and soon you have no miraculous Jesus Savior. But that's just my opinion (and Ravi Zacharias)
I prefer James White and his podcast. (He's written some awesome books.)
David comment:" One of my blessings is having a highly analytical brain and needing to understand everything about the things I come in contact with. My faith has always been no different."
And that is where Biblical Systematic Theology comes in. Simply read the entire Bible - and see how it ALL fits together. This is where we lose 90% of so-called christian church-goers. Most fail to read the entire Bible, and those who do: well, they learn to quickly hate any part they don't understand. There is a war of information for and against those who can't seem to take in the Bible and fully accept it. OR they demand the Bible meet their secular humanistic assumptions.
WE need people like you to do their homework. Read the Bible, read the historic commentaries, read the history books, read the philosophers and scientists... and don't easily buy into all the lies from all sides. Learn to be skeptical and yet truth seeking. (any moron can just be a skeptical fool - that is easy).
My advice: get to know your Bible. That is where the war begins and ends. Some demand a Jesus that they cherry-pick and remove from scripture... you'll see. Real Christians love the Jesus OF SCRIPTURE.
It's a wild ride: hang on... if you dare.
Rod wrote: "Hey David. Glad you found your way here.I've been enjoying W.L.C. for many years now. The defenders class was very interesting. I'm always excited to see what Reasonable Faith is up to.
... howe..."
Hi Rod.
Complete agree with your assessment of WLC being more Academic, although I can't speak to his tendencies yet. I have to admit, I'm new to philosophical debate like this. So, when they start throwing out a lot of reasons why one argument isn't valid and another one is, I'm lost for now. There feels like a lot of leaping from one point to the next since I'm so new to this.
I've discovered the Stand To Reason podcasts and listen to them regularly. They tend to focus more on application and less egghead-y discussions of apologetics. Also Credo House.
Still listening to WLC's stuff, but not watching his debates yet (and I know there are many) as it's still a bit above me.
Hi David. My own advice pretty much aligns with Rod's. Start with the Bible itself as your central text. Keep it there firmly for the rest of your life. Apologetics sends the clearest clarion call from someone who has been marinating in the word and is convinced of its status. Believe me, the more you examine it as a whole, the more convinced you will become that there is a divine authorship transcending and inspiring the writings of the men used to pen it. I would recommend your first topic (in a systematic theological sense) to be hermeneutics. The study of how to correctly interpret the Bible's meaning. Like Rod, I believe the Reformed denominations have latched in to a correct overall grasp of the Bible. An incorrect hermeneutic has led to all number of extreme offshoots including militant Zionism, Jesuitism, war in the name of Christianity and the biggie here in the west - false prosperity gospel. To name a few. I think the simplest principle to start with is just to commit to allowing scripture to interpret itself before you look outside the Bible. This principle is known as The Analogy of Scripture. Coming from your situation of not yet grasping the Epistles, you will be mining an incredibly rich vein. The epistles are an internal interpretive guide to the whole of scripture AND how a Christian should live in light of scripture's teaching. While also BEING inspired scripture themselves. But Jesus himself had a huge amount to say that illuminates true meaning of the OT aka the Jewish texts. The simple premise ☆☆☆spoiler alert ☆☆☆ Jesus is the centre of scripture. Starting with Matthew 1 and 2 yields many insights. For instance, examining the claim of scripture in Matt 2:15 renders modern day Christian Zionism irrelevent at best and highly sinful at worst (when responsible for the death of fellow believers of Palestinian cultural background for instance). Another eye opening study is how the gospels treat John the baptist. He was Elijah who is to come, but Spiritually, not Physically/Literally. Key principle alert right there since this was a massive stumbling block to Jewish acceptance of Jesus as the Messiah. As you branch out from there, GK Beale, Jonathan Edwards and Louis Berkhof would be my initial suggestions. Beale's A New Testament Biblical Theology is excellent and extremely thorough. All the very best with it. I'd like to finish by highly recommending you find a whole Bible believing and Bible preaching local church congregation and join in fellowship at your earliest opportunity. This is a direct command from Jesus to his church. The reasons for it are many and bring blessing and support in our earthly pilgrimmage.
I'm going to add my two cents. Not because I want to bark at the moon (my metaphor for how most people use social media), but because this is something I feel strongly about.David, you said yourself, there seems to be some personal, spiritual intervention in your kids' lives that has led both of them to walk towards the faith. That's the goal. Not reading your Bible. The goal is to have a spiritual relationship; seek it first, and then follow the desire it gives you to read the Bible. You don't want a religion that is just going through the motions. You want a spiritual relationship with something you KNOW is reaching out and touching you in your daily life.
Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying to throw out your Bible or leave it on the shelf (of course, if I don't put it back on the shelf, I can never find it when I need it again). A lot of the "read the Bible" advice is great, except it's intimidating. It's so intimidating, most folks give up on it. This time of year, there are all kinds of "read the Bible in a year" calendars being passed out in churches. I don't recommend these. So many people start in January, and 90% have fallen behind by February. By March, most have given up and feel ashamed for doing so. But the really strange thing is, even if you find one in November who still says he (or she) is reading their Bible every day, you ask them what they are reading and they can't tell you. They can say "I'm reading Ephesians" and when you start talking to them about the things that are actually discussed in Ephesians, they give you a blank stare. That is because the discipline of moving eyes across the page to read the words is NOT what God wants us to do with the Bible. God doesn't want us to look a the book for thirty minutes while we're thinking about what's for dinner or what we need to do at the office today.
The goal is to read and RETAIN it. That doesn't happen by discipline and a 30-minute-a-day schedule. It happens by reading it WITH the Holy Spirit guiding your experience. Sometimes that means letting life experiences prompt you to seek out answers in a certain book or chapter. Sometimes that means opening the Book to a random place and praying for God to show you something. Sometimes it means using a concordance to find the place you ought to go. And sometimes, when you just can't keep your mind on what you're reading and you feel like the world has your attention and you have failed...it means you need to start realizing that God can be found in ALL of His Creation, not just in the Book. Put the Bible down and go looking for that tangible, guiding hand that led both of your kids to their own spiritual walks.
Nathan wrote: "Hi David. My own advice pretty much aligns with Rod's. Start with the Bible itself as your central text. Keep it there firmly for the rest of your life. Apologetics sends the clearest clarion call ..."Thanks for your thoughts, Nathan. I quickly realized I was getting ahead of myself by going to apologetics so fast, and have slowed won to take it back to basics, if that's the right way to look at it. Along with reading my Bible I've been following the Foundations online courses from BlbieStudy.org which gives a GREAT overview/big picture of the Bible. Something I was really lacking from my previous efforts. There is also a Theology track on Bible.org I will work my way through as well.
Robert wrote: "I'm going to add my two cents. Not because I want to bark at the moon (my metaphor for how most people use social media), but because this is something I feel strongly about.David, you said yours..."
Thanks, Robert. Your two cents were well worth it.
Being the spiritual leader for my family is one of the main goals of this entire thing for me. And that definitely starts with my own personal walk with God. The problem is I thought I could do this on my own for so long WITHOUT reading the Bible. And I have quickly realized I was dead wrong. You see, the apologetic studies aren't for me defending the faith to others (yet), its more for proof to myself that what I have felt inside is correct. I'm like Chesterton in that way, I suppose.
Retention, absorption and application of Scripture are key. The online sources I listed above are doing a great job at helping me with this. I've got pages and pages of notes. Otherwise, you're right; if you just start reading the Bible with gusto, you often end up giving up, or developing tunnel vision on the one book you are studying without being able to put it into the context of everything else you have read.
God has rewarded me in small ways with my patience and persistence. I came to the table with all of these erroneous preconceptions and He has slowly been peeling all of those away. Every time the skeptic in me rears its head, He leads me to the right answer eventually. I'm practically daring Him to slip up and reveal some ulterior, secret motive; you know, one of those "aha HAH! Thought you could trick me" moments you get when you feel like you're being lied to or not told the whole truth. But He just says "nope. Here it is. Here I am. This is what you have to do. This is how much I love you." And my eyes are opened. Thus strengthening my faith.
The whole reason I started on this journey (although I didn't realize it had started) was for a relationship with the truth. I've always been seeking the truth. It took my kids to remind me I was going about it all wrong. I had let other sources dictate to me what the Bible was "really" saying (sarcasm) without opening it myself to really see what was inside. And you know what was inside? The truth I had been seeking all this time. At least, that's what I've come to find from the little I have studied so far.
God is teaching me patience because, through the relationship you have mentioned, He is giving me what I want and that's the Truth.
Sorry this drifted off into a bit more personal testimony. not that I mind. I think it was relevant to show where I'm at though
I've been a life long Christian who went to Church every Sunday up until I was 18. When I went away to college I started to drift away from my faith. I've always maintained my belief in the Christian Truths, but I had stopped praying regularly and reading my Bible all together. One of my blessings is having a highly analytical brain and needing to understand everything about the things I come in contact with. My faith has always been no different. Not being in contact with a church, or my bible, or other Christians and being open minded made me fall off track quite often.
Even though I had talked about God with my kids we had never really attended church. With no help from me, but with an obvious interference by God, both of my kids found youth groups at their schools that led them to Bible Study. It was a sign to me that I needed to start my studies again. I've also been very confused as of late on how I, as a Christian, should feel on the various issues that are presented to us today, and also confused at how some people were doing and saying things in the cloak of Christianity and they were things I did NOT remember from what I learned as a kid.
And then... my brother offhandedly introduced me to the Reasonable Faith Podcast. It was all over for me from that point.
One of the things I've always felt in my heart is when you get into a discussion about God or Christianity you can't use "well the Bible told me so" as your defense to a non believer. Hearing Dr. Craig talk about apologetics and proving our faith through reason was what I had been looking for all my life. I'm sure many of you have similar experiences.
So, now, I'm staring at this mountain of books and I'm not quite sure where to start. I remember most of the main stories of the OT and NT, but I'm really weak on the epistles and anything outside of the Gospels to be honest. I've never done a REAL Bible Study. It's all been to the level of what we get in Sunday School and Sunday Sermons. So I think I need to start from almost the ground up, really. Somewhere I found out about "Living By The Book". It has an accompanying workbook and I'm going to pick up a copy of that. I had also heard about "How To Read The Bible For All It's Worth". I've also been listening to the Reasonable Faith and Defenders podcasts and faithfully taking pages and pages of notes like a giddy college kid again.
Can anyone help me navigate the maze of material? I think I need to focus on theology more before I can get into apologetics - which is my ultimate goal.
Thanks so much!
David