World, Writing, Wealth discussion
World & Current Events
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Mentality differences
As it will soon be All Hallows Eve, I offer a scary look into a mind.Self Portraits of an Artist
https://youtu.be/wC-EjPLW9fI
Ian wrote: "In NZ the boundary is just in a different place - all people can have care, or they can pay insurance for better more comfortable care..."
Just think, Ian, if it hadn't been for that little tea party, Americans could've had all this too ;)
Just think, Ian, if it hadn't been for that little tea party, Americans could've had all this too ;)
Jim wrote: "Those who disparage and demean their nation's government most often are among those who have an incorrect perception and/or understanding of the basic purpose and duty of the governing body."
I can’t agree with this, Jim. If the government was never criticised then we would be living under the same one for evermore. We wouldn’t have a functioning democracy.
Until 18 months’ ago, I believed that governments, while open to criticism, should always be treated with dignity due to the positions they hold and out of respect for the democratic process. I no longer feel this way because I have learnt that sometimes the whole system, including tried and trusted institutions, fail and need to be replaced. This might shock moderate, well-heeled members of WWW but that is only because our minds tend to focus on the present.
We all applaud the fact that slavery in the US was abolished, that women now have the right to vote, that high-ranking German officers attempted to assassinate Hitler, and a whole diverse host of other past challenges to what was then the status quo. None of these things would’ve happened if people in the past had operated within the boundaries of what was the consensus of the time. The present is not immune from criticism…or from history.
I grant you that it is not nice to attack one’s own government and institutions because it is an admission that they have failed. But it is not disloyal. The true patriot recognises that even our most treasured institutions can malfunction and it would be irresponsible to turn a blind eye to it.
Thinking about the current state of the US and GB, I don’t hate Biden or Boris because hate is a very strong word. However, I do not particularly respect either of them.
Biden isn't a bad man. I liken him to King Théoden of Rohan from Lord of the Rings – a confused, elderly gentleman, who is under the spell of ruthless people with a wicked agenda. Who knows, perhaps Tulsi Gabbard or Ron DeSantis will enter the White House and banish the US’s Grima Wormtongue (Harris), Joe will awake from the spell, mount a white charger and lead Americans to victory over the forces of darkness?
Regarding Boris, he is quite simply the worst leader Great Britain has ever had. He is worse than King John because the King, for all his faults, possessed excellent administrative skills. He is worse than King Charles I, who for all his stubbornness and arrogance, retained his kingly dignity to the very end. Boris is the equivalent of somebody like Lord Haw-Haw. He isn’t evil, he’s just a chancer and chameleon – a weak, slightly tragic character, who got in with the wrong crowd.
When the great convid trick finally unravels and its architects are called to account by a Hague-like tribunal, while Dr Fauci will probably take poison to avoid justice, and Dan Andrews will leave this world by way of a firing squad, I imagine Boris will meet a more low-key end. Perhaps he will be found hanging from a lamppost in the red-light district of an obscure northern port? Who knows?
Of course, I hope this doesn’t happen, but for us to enjoy peace, justice, democracy and progress, it is absolutely essential that our leaders recognise that respect and responsibility are both 2-way processes.
I can’t agree with this, Jim. If the government was never criticised then we would be living under the same one for evermore. We wouldn’t have a functioning democracy.
Until 18 months’ ago, I believed that governments, while open to criticism, should always be treated with dignity due to the positions they hold and out of respect for the democratic process. I no longer feel this way because I have learnt that sometimes the whole system, including tried and trusted institutions, fail and need to be replaced. This might shock moderate, well-heeled members of WWW but that is only because our minds tend to focus on the present.
We all applaud the fact that slavery in the US was abolished, that women now have the right to vote, that high-ranking German officers attempted to assassinate Hitler, and a whole diverse host of other past challenges to what was then the status quo. None of these things would’ve happened if people in the past had operated within the boundaries of what was the consensus of the time. The present is not immune from criticism…or from history.
I grant you that it is not nice to attack one’s own government and institutions because it is an admission that they have failed. But it is not disloyal. The true patriot recognises that even our most treasured institutions can malfunction and it would be irresponsible to turn a blind eye to it.
Thinking about the current state of the US and GB, I don’t hate Biden or Boris because hate is a very strong word. However, I do not particularly respect either of them.
Biden isn't a bad man. I liken him to King Théoden of Rohan from Lord of the Rings – a confused, elderly gentleman, who is under the spell of ruthless people with a wicked agenda. Who knows, perhaps Tulsi Gabbard or Ron DeSantis will enter the White House and banish the US’s Grima Wormtongue (Harris), Joe will awake from the spell, mount a white charger and lead Americans to victory over the forces of darkness?
Regarding Boris, he is quite simply the worst leader Great Britain has ever had. He is worse than King John because the King, for all his faults, possessed excellent administrative skills. He is worse than King Charles I, who for all his stubbornness and arrogance, retained his kingly dignity to the very end. Boris is the equivalent of somebody like Lord Haw-Haw. He isn’t evil, he’s just a chancer and chameleon – a weak, slightly tragic character, who got in with the wrong crowd.
When the great convid trick finally unravels and its architects are called to account by a Hague-like tribunal, while Dr Fauci will probably take poison to avoid justice, and Dan Andrews will leave this world by way of a firing squad, I imagine Boris will meet a more low-key end. Perhaps he will be found hanging from a lamppost in the red-light district of an obscure northern port? Who knows?
Of course, I hope this doesn’t happen, but for us to enjoy peace, justice, democracy and progress, it is absolutely essential that our leaders recognise that respect and responsibility are both 2-way processes.
Constructive criticism based upon research, unbiased observation, and honest evaluation, is essential to improvement within any organization, government, or management structure. However, destructive criticism based upon prejudice, radical bias, and unfetterred emotion, seldom resolves or improves any situation.One should never be satisfied with and lured into complacency with the status-quo. Consistent success is dependent upon a disciplined, unwavering focus upon a philosophy of continuous improvement.
Adrian wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "Give me a break. This proves my point. The broken American system is kicking ass. Your socialist system has to come to the U.S."Clearly you don't understand the data you posted..."
I certainly understand the data I posted, you just do not like my point. As far as your system is concerned, it meets our definition of socialized medicine. It is neither a positive nor negative term.
Jim wrote: "In comment 191 and comment 193 Phillip and Ian express their confusion regarding why an actor would point a weapon at the cameraman.Although the facts behind the Alec Baldwin episode have yet to ..."
It is a tragedy, no doubt. I expect there will be some charges due to negligence. As for pointing the pistol, it is not the first nor will it be the last for that perspective of camera angle. I can only hope it was just an accident or a series of unfortunate events.
There are enough facts coming out about the Rust shooting that I feel comfortable making a few statements.The story as I understand it is that they were in a church rehearsing a scene. Baldwin was sitting in a pew. The victims were in front of him, lining up the shot. Baldwin was handed one of three handguns by the Assistant Director. The AD may have said, "Cold gun." Baldwin drew the firearm from cross draw, and it discharged. It appears that the projectile went through the Director's shoulder and into the Cinematographer's abdomen.
1.) The energy needed for the wounds caused precludes this having been debris dislodged by a blank. This was a live round.
2.) The discharge may have been the result of a mechanical failure or of the trigger being squeezed during the draw. We will have to wait for the police report to know for certain.
3.) Baldwin failed to clear the weapon when it was handed to him. Taking thirty seconds to clear the weapon would have prevented the accidental discharge. His was the proximate failure.
Any gun has to be assumed to be loaded with live rounds unless it has been verified by the person holding it that it is clear.
Ian wrote: "Any gun has to be assumed to be loaded with live rounds unless it has been verified by the person holding it that it is clear."One of the many First Rules of firearms.
Baldwin, the wounded, and the family of the dead woman will all have to live with the consequences of his inattention.
Gun owners will have to deal with a new round of the ignorant screaming about "evil guns". As if it wasn't an anti-2A mouthpiece who did it.
Papaphilly wrote: "Clearly you don't understand the data you posted..."I certainly understand the data I posted, you just do not like my point. "
Well you don't understand my point then. You said all medical breakthroughs were happening in the US. I said it wasn't all of them and listed a bunch of countries where breakthroughs were also happening. And you posted a list of medical journals by country - thus proving my point.
I'd have been shocked if the US wasn't number one on that list. Australia is the 12th biggest economy in the world but 10th on that list. Go the good guys!
Similarly, I know personally people from four different institutions in NZ that do medical research in NZ. Obviously, NZ is a tiny economy, and it is not going to set the world on fire, but it does make significant contributions. As far as pharmaceuticals go, though, when one is discovered, it tends to be licensed to a major US or European pharmaceutical company so you don't hear about or contribution.
Jim wrote: "Constructive criticism based upon research, unbiased observation, and honest evaluation, is essential to improvement within any organization, government, or management structure. However, destructi..."
Jim, I can honestly say that I’m without prejudice, occupy the political centre ground and have the cool temperament of a poker player. If I’m getting excited about the current political situation, it’s because Graeme’s Overton Window has shifted towards barmy extremes and I don’t like extremism. Like you, I want a disciplined, unwavering focus upon a philosophy of continuous improvement, not this madcap world we’ve suddenly entered into.
On a lighter note, I’m into the second half of ‘A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court’ and thoroughly enjoying it. I’ll go into more detail when I finish it.
Jim, I can honestly say that I’m without prejudice, occupy the political centre ground and have the cool temperament of a poker player. If I’m getting excited about the current political situation, it’s because Graeme’s Overton Window has shifted towards barmy extremes and I don’t like extremism. Like you, I want a disciplined, unwavering focus upon a philosophy of continuous improvement, not this madcap world we’ve suddenly entered into.
On a lighter note, I’m into the second half of ‘A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court’ and thoroughly enjoying it. I’ll go into more detail when I finish it.
Beau wrote: "Jim wrote: "Constructive criticism based upon research, unbiased observation, and honest evaluation, is essential to improvement within any organization, government, or management structure. Howeve..."Beau,
Ironically, Mark Twain's novel - A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court - deals with many of the concerns regarding the issues being debated within this discussion group pertaining to the ignorance and disconnect from reality of some holding the reins of political power and authority concerning those whom they represent and govern. I am glad to hear that you not only heeded my recommendation, but are, at least so far, enjoying it.
Adrian wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "Clearly you don't understand the data you posted..."I certainly understand the data I posted, you just do not like my point. "
Well you don't understand my point then. You sai..."
For God sake, it was hyperbole. Give me a break. The United States is number one on medical breakthroughs and it is not close. All of the comments about how bad American care is and we are number one. Why do you suppose that happens? Through the goodness of people's hearts?
No, through the world class medical system that most can't afford.
Adrian wrote: "No, through the world class medical system that most can't afford."Which is a misnomer pushed by those that want socialized medicine. This is not about medicine, but about control. having suffered through HMO's, I am very leery of anyone messing about.
You calling it socialised medicine is the misnomer and guarantees that a large proportion of Americans won't want it (because of the evil S word) even though they'd be heaps better off.It is simply a choice about how public monies are spent. Nothing to do with socialism which is about an entire command economy. No-one with half a brain wants that.
One problem with this sort of discussion is that terms need defining. What exactly do we think socialism means? Marxist, where the state owns everything and commands everything? What we have around here where you pay your taxes and the state will pay for medical care, although you have the option for private if you so desire?A case could be made that the US is a plutocracy because the likes of Musk, Bezos, etc, pay hardly any tax. But such oversimplified labels simply skip around the issue of how we should run our lives.
Papaphilly wrote: "Which is a misnomer pushed by those that want socialized medicine. This is not about medicine, but about control..."
Control? Control! Is this the same Papaphilly who has been calling for everyone in the US to be vaccinated against covid?
If you want the vaccine to be free to all, why not supply other potentially lifesaving medical treatment free to them too?
Or do you want to see everyone charged for these vaccines? Is Papaphilly just a pseudonym for Pharmaphilly?
Control? Control! Is this the same Papaphilly who has been calling for everyone in the US to be vaccinated against covid?
If you want the vaccine to be free to all, why not supply other potentially lifesaving medical treatment free to them too?
Or do you want to see everyone charged for these vaccines? Is Papaphilly just a pseudonym for Pharmaphilly?
Maybe I'm adding oil to the fire, but there is a big chunk of healthcare discussed here: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Rather than debate individual personal opinions and interpretations of the definition of socialism and capitalism, perhaps it might be more constructive to the conversation to rely upon the official definitions.Source: Merriam-Webster English Dictionary
socialism / n : any of various social systems based on shared or government ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods ---
capitalism / n : an economic system charactized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods and by prices, production, and distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market.
Adrian wrote: "You calling it socialised medicine is the misnomer and guarantees that a large proportion of Americans won't want it (because of the evil S word) even though they'd be heaps better off.It is simp..."
It is the definition used by Americans. It is a legitimate definition and in this case, it fits all too well.
I am going to say it again, until the politicians have exactly the same coverage as every American, I want no part of it.
Beau wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "Which is a misnomer pushed by those that want socialized medicine. This is not about medicine, but about control..."Control? Control! Is this the same Papaphilly who has been c..."
Is that really the best you have? Maybe you really do not understand the idea of vaccinations or even how to get them. You can get the major vaccinations free. They are all over the place.
You do not seem to understand the idea of the balance of freedom and public health. By any definition, this is unique situation. when this gets in front of the Supreme Court, this will be a slam dunk for vaccinations.
So I will say it again. If you do not want to take the shot. DON'T. However, you do not get to be a public health hazard either, so stay inside the house. do not go out and potentially spread the disease to those that are not able to have the shot.
Papaphilly wrote: "So I will say it again. If you do not want to take the shot. DON'T. However, you do not get to be a public health hazard either, so stay inside the house. do not go out and potentially spread the disease to those that are not able to have the shot."How many vulnerable people die of influenza every year? Should those who don't get the influenza vaccine be placed under house arrest for the public good?
J. wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "So I will say it again. If you do not want to take the shot. DON'T. However, you do not get to be a public health hazard either, so stay inside the house. do not go out and poten..."You do realize it is two very different circumstances? This is closing fast on two years consistent and the flu is seasonal. I will ask again. What part of 741,000 American deaths do you not get? BTW, deaths now occurring from COVID in America are almost exclusively the unvaccinated? The average of the vaccinated death is 84 and they usually also have an underlying medical condition also.
BTW, I do recommend getting the flu shot. I took mine and now is the right time to give you immunity.
Papaphilly wrote: "J. wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "So I will say it again. If you do not want to take the shot. DON'T. However, you do not get to be a public health hazard either, so stay inside the house. do not go ou..."So this is about numbers. The flu doesn't kill enough people to matter, beyond a recommendation. And the Coof demands house arrest for those who don't acquiesce. So where's the dividing line? How many souls on the butcher's bill does it take for you to call for the imprisonment of your fellow men?
It would be logical to have widespread flu shots as well. As an aside, like Papa, I had mine earlier in the year (we are 6 months out of phase with diseases that strike in winter.)
Ian wrote: "It would be logical to have widespread flu shots as well. As an aside, like Papa, I had mine earlier in the year (we are 6 months out of phase with diseases that strike in winter.)"But does that mean that people who don't get the flu vaccine should be placed under house arrest?
No, and here at least there has been an issue with flu - there have been hardly any cases through this winter so the Covid precautions have done some good.As for Covid, there is an interesting approach coming here. Details are still rather vague, but the general drift is that when there is 90% vaccination, lockdowns etc will cease but there will be vaccine passports and certain events, like big games, concerts, where a lot of people gather, will lonely be open to such passports. Things like groceries, etc, will be open to everybody.
So I agree, no house arrest, but there can still be restrictions. The interesting one is public transport. In may opinion, that, and lunch places are where traditionally flu is most likely to be transmitted
I'm with PapaP concerning health care for all: "I am going to say it again, until the politicians have exactly the same coverage as every American, I want no part of it." If legislators think what they're proposing is so great for the American public, why do they refuse to be covered by same? It's a legitimate question. What's the answer?
UK system they all do - Boris was treated by NHS for COVID. All emergency care and heart operations are NHS. Yes the rich and all those that have additional insurance from schemes (mine is via employer) can get alternate care for some procedures e.g. elective surgery, tests, cancer treatment in a private hospital or a private ward in an NHS hospital.Despite its socialist leanings the main part of the NHS - General Practitioner Doctors are nearly all private practices receiving NHS government funding for GP services. Direct employees (NHS is biggest employer in country and Europe)
Papaphilly wrote: "I am going to say it again, until the politicians have exactly the same coverage as every American, I want no part of it."That's our system. The politicians have the same basic coverage and access to additional coverage that all Australians have.
I feel like A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court explaining purchasing power to the blacksmith and wheelwright.
Never mind that there have been post-war flu pandemics which have killed similar numbers of people, the same rules don’t apply to flu – it’s covid.
Never mind that poor people die of other illnesses and don’t get any healthcare, they should be given free vaccines – it’s covid.
Never mind that the pharmaceutical companies are being paid by governments (your money) to deliver ‘free’ vaccines – it’s covid.
Never mind that the 741k dead Americans died with not necessarily of covid and that there have been financial incentives to register the cause of death as covid – it’s covid.
Never mind that the vaccine doesn’t prevent transmission – it’s covid.
Never mind the fact that the average age of a covid victim (vaccinated or unvaccinated) is above the average life expectancy and they usually have at least one underlying condition – it’s covid.
Never mind your rights as US citizens – it’s covid.
And you wonder why I call them covid cultists?
Papaphilly, you can shake your fist from New Jersey all you want, there are heavily-armed libertarians in rural communities and the South who aren’t listening to you and there’s nothing you or Biden can do about it. Praise The Lord for these people because without them the US would slide into a Marxist dystopia.
Be careful who you choose as your bedfellows. Consider their views on other topics. They are not your natural allies.
Never mind that there have been post-war flu pandemics which have killed similar numbers of people, the same rules don’t apply to flu – it’s covid.
Never mind that poor people die of other illnesses and don’t get any healthcare, they should be given free vaccines – it’s covid.
Never mind that the pharmaceutical companies are being paid by governments (your money) to deliver ‘free’ vaccines – it’s covid.
Never mind that the 741k dead Americans died with not necessarily of covid and that there have been financial incentives to register the cause of death as covid – it’s covid.
Never mind that the vaccine doesn’t prevent transmission – it’s covid.
Never mind the fact that the average age of a covid victim (vaccinated or unvaccinated) is above the average life expectancy and they usually have at least one underlying condition – it’s covid.
Never mind your rights as US citizens – it’s covid.
And you wonder why I call them covid cultists?
Papaphilly, you can shake your fist from New Jersey all you want, there are heavily-armed libertarians in rural communities and the South who aren’t listening to you and there’s nothing you or Biden can do about it. Praise The Lord for these people because without them the US would slide into a Marxist dystopia.
Be careful who you choose as your bedfellows. Consider their views on other topics. They are not your natural allies.
Papaphilly wrote: "....If you do not want to take the shot. DON'T. However, you do not get to be a public health hazard either, so stay inside the house. do not go out and potentially spread the disease to those that are not able to have the shot...."That sounds extreme to me and I hope this approach is not practiced anywhere, although a sizeable quantity of people, inter alia, whom I know personally, maintain the same view.
I bet none of them live in Ukraine, Nik.
Beau wrote: "I bet none of them live in Ukraine, Nik."Hard to tell, however I'd rather expect another extreme there - infected people using metro to get to work or being reluctant to go check when in question.
Unfortunately, Ukraine is currently under a corona wave, gaining ground
People in Eastern Europe have lived under totalitarian regimes, so they know the warning signs and value their freedom.
For more opportunities and to live in a liberal society, go east, young man.
For more opportunities and to live in a liberal society, go east, young man.
Beau wrote: "People in Eastern Europe have lived under totalitarian regimes, so they know the warning signs and value their freedom.For more opportunities and to live in a liberal society, go east, young man."
Maybe that, or maybe - indifference and a fatalistic attitude :)
But I wouldn't generalize about large groups of people, they do hold a variety opinions and attitudes on the issue at hand. A conspiratorial one is strong
Regarding the Covid and flu vaccines debate, since I am not a qualified medical expert or government official, I can only provide my limited personal experience. No doubt, others may have much different personal experiences pertaining to the viruses and related vaccines.I received the Moderna vaccine in April of this year (1st. shot on April 2 - 2nd. shot on April 30). I received the flu vaccine on Oct. 6. My 4 adult children, 5 grandchildren, and 3 sons-in-law have also received both the Covid and flu vaccines.
I am 74-years-old. The ages of my four adult children, grandchildren, and sons-in-law range in age from 16 to 53-years-old. To-date none of us have experienced side effects or virus/flu symptons.
A boyhood friend, with whom I had literally been acquainted since 1947 (our parents were best friends), died this past July. The primary cause listed upon the death certificate was the Corona Virus. My friend chose to not be vaccinated.
Jim wrote: "Regarding the Covid and flu vaccines debate, since I am not a qualified medical expert or government official, I can only provide my limited personal experience."
Don't worry about that, Jim. It doesn't stop the rest of us :)
Besides, we wouldn't have a debate on anything if we left it to the experts, especially as the ones who don't agree with those advising our governments are currently no-platformed by the media. Think of us as their voice.
Sorry to hear about your friend, by the way. All I'm asking is that we pays our money and takes our chances.
Don't worry about that, Jim. It doesn't stop the rest of us :)
Besides, we wouldn't have a debate on anything if we left it to the experts, especially as the ones who don't agree with those advising our governments are currently no-platformed by the media. Think of us as their voice.
Sorry to hear about your friend, by the way. All I'm asking is that we pays our money and takes our chances.
The difference between some being vaccinated and nearly all being vaccinated is the second option means you may all only have to do it a very few times then the virus is extinguished, while the first means the virus is with us forever, happily mutating and killing. You don't take your chances - you take everyone else's too. But then again, acting for the common good as opposed to your own private desires is not a strong force amongst people.
Ian, there were no vaccines for kids until yesterday and these days much of the virus runs among kids, so ‘everybody’ was an impossibility anyway. Besides, the vaccine may diminish but apparently doesn’t prevent transmission. In these circumstances- it’s mostly demonizing those who opted out. As long as those for whom the virus represents most peril can protect themselves, asking all to play ball is equally egoistic
Nik, my "everybody" was aspirational. Yes, it was impossible initially, b ut if there is a logical goal, you can always work towards it.If the vaccine diminishes transmission below the Ro = 1, then eventually it will prevail. It does not have to be perfect, merely adequate.
Ian, Israel is one of the most vaccinated countries on earth and they're now planning their 4th shot? How many jabs is 'a few'? Will 5-year-old children just need to take 'a few' jabs or does a lifetime's dependency on twice-yearly covid vaccines await them?
Alert! The vaccinated can transmit the virus too. You are on the ropes on the covid thread and choosing not to respond to the UK Government's own findings on this matter.
Alert! The vaccinated can transmit the virus too. You are on the ropes on the covid thread and choosing not to respond to the UK Government's own findings on this matter.
So far, no 4-th shot is discussed, Beau :) They say they have no idea wether another one would be needed. Close to 6 mil ppl took the first two shots, close to 4 - the third. If fourth is needed, it might go lower
Israel prepares for 4th vaccine shot:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...
Those in the know listen to Beau.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...
Those in the know listen to Beau.
Beau wrote: "Israel prepares for 4th vaccine shot:https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...
Those in the know listen to Beau."
I'd rather call it an inaccurate journalism, for vaccines have a rather short expiry date :) The third shot's rollout has only commenced in Sept. Makes no sense to prepare for fourth at the moment, when you don't know if and when one would be needed
Actually, Beau, I am resorting to mathematics. If Ro < 1, and if everywhere, sooner or later the virus extinguishes. If the unvaccinated keep Ro > 1 anywhere, now you have to keep vaccinating. Those wanting freedom and liberty appear to be referring to freedom to keep the virus alive and well.
The p..."
So long as the trains run on time?