THE WORLD WAR TWO GROUP discussion
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2016 - December - Theme Read on any WW2 Novel/s of your Choice
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A Christmas or three ago I ended up with The Bourne Identity and an Arkady Renko novel. I started them chapter by chapter. First chapter of one, then first chapter of the other. Then second chapters. Then third. By the fourth chapter I gave up on Bourne. The writing was so ordinary. Renko, by comparison, was high art.
Finished "The Last Field Marshal", by Robert Munchenberg. Two stars only. My review, in toto:Makes Michener looks good. Although the first quarter and the last 10 pages have a storyline, the remainder is recycled, condensed history, largely of Eastern Front tank battles in War II, plus the political maneuvering in the Fuhrerbunker. Oddly for a book of this simplicity, the ending is left hanging, pun intended.
Nooilforpacifists wrote: "Finished "The Last Field Marshal", by Robert Munchenberg. Two stars only. My review, in toto:Makes Michener looks good. Although the first quarter and the last 10 pages have a storyline, the rem..."
No, if you want to continue on theme reading, I still have a couple of copies of my novella to give away on a read to review basis. Feel free to reach out.
Manray9 wrote: "Dj wrote: "
I am going to try and finish this one for the montly group read. I want to start off by saying that in general I don't really care for this typ..."
Role Playing Games.
Life and Fate is so far magnificent. Grossman has covered all the human emotions. That, to this point, make it as compelling a novel as I have read since Les Miserables. The death of a son and the reaction of the mother had me as close to being emotional as I can recall when reading a novel. I suppose I have always tried to be pragmatic as to my approach to the history I read but this seems different. Russian grimness articulated? Anyway my chapter by chapter notes for anyone interested.
(view spoiler)
Finished
Hearts of Stone; sadly more interesting in its recommended reading than in the story (The Cretan Runner, Ill Met By Moonlight, Patrick Lee Fermor and Xan Fielding). Not one of Mr Scarrow's better efforts, I'm afraid.
Not a novel if we're being particular, but I submit this because it's timely. My mother visited over Thanksgiving, started looking at this book, and couldn't put it down.
Wartime Racketeers: Scams, Swindles, Fraud and Corruption during the Second World War
The book was published in 1945, before the end of the war. It is a compilation of stories of real-life crooks and cons who took advantage of the many wrinkles in the forced wartime economy.
"Allotment Annies" would marry three or four (or nine!) young officers at the dockside, just to collect the spousal support benefits. Welders learned to cheat on their beads to collect more per-inch pay. Cattle rustling came alive when meat became rationed and price-controlled. Prohibition-era bootlegging reawakened when liquor production facilities were taken over for war needs.
I make fun of newspaper men who try to write prose, but Lever and Young keep it readable. They don't try to dump all their frustrated literary style over the stories. It's a fun read.
A very important point - this book is real history. It's an artifact directly from the time period it talks about. It's not a history book with points to make. it is also a bit of propaganda, owing to the cooperation with law enforcement efforts, and that makes it all the more genuine.
Wartime Racketeers has been indispensable in my own work cooking up home front detective stories. There are so many rackets to choose from, the only challenge has been in not trying to use all of them in one book!
I told my mother to keep the book (after I snagged a signed original off ebay).
It's a little while since I read it but Attack Alarm by Hammond Innes deserves a mention. An early work so not the most polished, but it was written by a serving squaddie on a heavy AA gun site at a time when any dawn might have brought a sky full of parachutes. The authenticity of the action scenes shines through.Innes, by the way, went on to work with Hugh Cudlipp's astonishing collection of talents on the Forces' newspaper Union Jack.
Arrggh! I was going to mention a favourite novel of mine but I neglected to add it to "My Books" and I can't remember the title or author. Can anyone enlighten me: it was about the battle of Kursk, the protagonist being a T-34 commander who considered himself a throwback to the Cossacks. If I remember correctly he was a sgt and his son was an officer. Help.
Since I can't remember the book I was going to post - I'll mention one of my other favourites: Twelve Seconds to Live by Douglas Reeman. "A fascinating portrayal of mine countermeasures and coastal defence actions during WWII. The story line is somewhat disjointed and the ending is a little too pat, but the setting is worth the read. I found Reeman's writing style in this novel hard to follow (I don't recall this in his other books): he tended to switch perspectives frequently while using pronouns which weren't clear who they referred to. Could this be a literary device to convey a sense of disjointed reality when dismantling mines?
^^^ Towards the end of his career? Ghost written?
TheIron wrote: "Arrggh! I was going to mention a favourite novel of mine but I neglected to add it to "My Books" and I can't remember the title or author. Can anyone enlighten me: it was about the battle of Kursk,..."Last Citadel by David Robbins?
Last Citadel
If I remeber correctly the daughter was one of the Night Witches
At a third of the way through Life and Fate I am not sure that I so far would call it a "WW2 novel" as such. First let me say that I think it is superb. Second that yes it is in WW2 and there has been descriptions of fighting. But it is to me a book that has a certain sense of Soviet Russian "human condition" about the prose. I don't feel articulate enough to expand on that. There are chapters were scientists are discussing political situations through to an old Bolshevik and Menshevik having an almighty argument in a concentration camp. It is presented with a readable soullessness (so unhappy with that term considering some of the emotional writing) that is utterly compelling. Is that this Socialist realism that I read about once? Yeah genuinely great book so far but maybe not for those that like their novel action packed.
This is an excellent thread - lots of good, unstructured recommendations.I am currently reading
, although I have not yet gotten to the second world war. This is probably not an exotic read to most, but I am hoping it will help to close my current knowledge gap as to the MacArthur side of the pacific theatre as well as post-war Japan.The Author William Manchester comes across as very thorough in his research, but I have some criticisms of his style of writing in this book and with his Winston Churchill biography (which I have only read 1.3 of the 3 books). It contains many details without context that I do not understand, such as names of people, places, and events. Also, at times the heavy use of flowery prose makes it feel like an opinion piece rather than the type of objective historical account I am used to.
I would give it 4/5 so far
Jonny wrote: "TheIron wrote: "Arrggh! I was going to mention a favourite novel of mine but I neglected to add it to "My Books" and I can't remember the title or author. Can anyone enlighten me: it was about the ..."That's it!! Thanks muchly.
I just in the initial pages of Von Ryan's Express and David Westheimer has captivated my attention. He writes with an in depth knowledge and in savoring each page very slowly.Peace out and have a great holiday season
I've never read the book but I remember watching the movie a few times as a kid, glad to hear you are enjoying he novel.
The Stalin Front: A Novel of World War II
Gert Ledig
Started on this book last night, and boy is it something. Harrowing and brutal.
Just finished my WWI classic
The African Queen -- loved it. And today I found a first edition copy of
The Caine Mutiny in great condition. May try to squeeze it in for the monthly read..
Dane wrote: "This is an excellent thread - lots of good, unstructured recommendations.I am currently reading
, although I have not yet gotten to t..."I will give you a good mantra: 'Stick with it' and 'refer to the Osprey Books'. Happy reading!
4triplezed wrote: "Life and Fate by Vasily Grossman for me. Life and Fate Vasily Grossman
I have made a start on this. This had come up on my feed a couple of years back and I had read..."
How are you coming along with this title? I've had this particular book on my shelf for at least 10 yrs..always going to but never read. If you find a moment , let me know your thoughts.
Wade wrote: "4triplezed wrote: "Life and Fate by Vasily Grossman for me. Life and Fate Vasily Grossman
I have made a start on this. This had come up on my feed a couple of years ..."
Presently half way through it and would have been further if not for the usual distractions this time of year. Exceptional (so far) in my opinion. I am unsure if I would recommend it to anyone as a "pure" WW2 novel. It is a "family and their circle at and during wartime" book with all the issues that those in the USSR had at the time. Hoping to be able to finish it by the end of the year.
One novel that's NOT a recommendation is this. I gave up a 100 pages from the finish.
Citadel by
Kate MosseInspired by a commemorative plaque in the Carcassone region listing two unknown women, Mosse's fleshed them out as the core of an all-female Resistance group. The Midi setting is beautifully crafted & will pull your inner travel goose (it's apparently part of a Languedoc trilogy), but as a war novel it fals flat on its face: some romance, some ancient artifact mystery that never gets off the ground and a gallery of Vichy/Nazi characters that are as believable as the antagonists of 'Allo 'Allo! even tough they're not played for laughs.
4triplezed wrote: "Wade wrote: "4triplezed wrote: "Life and Fate by Vasily Grossman for me. Life and Fate Vasily Grossman
I have made a start on this. This had come up on my feed a cou..."
This is one of my all time favorites. After 25 years in USA, I still have my Russian copy of the book.
Victor wrote: "4triplezed wrote: "Wade wrote: "4triplezed wrote: "Life and Fate by Vasily Grossman for me. Life and Fate Vasily Grossman
I have made a start on this. This had come ..."
It is being added to one of my all time favourites. At the end of chapter 47 in part two I have just had to put the book down and take stock. It is not easy reading, nor is not meant to be. I have read lots and watched lots of TV discussing and describing the gas chambers but have no recollection of reading it in fictional form and of how the individuals thought and reacted going to the gas chambers. Grossman's writing in the last couple of chapters is emotional and in a previous post I used the term soulless. I quote myself "It is presented with a readable soullessness (so unhappy with that term considering some of the emotional writing) that is utterly compelling" That is just the wrong word and I hate now writing it.
I wish I could speak Russian to get the nuances of the writing. When I first purchased the book a few years back I did a bit of research and thought I read that Grossman was not that popular in his own homeland and had only really received accolades in the west.
Victor I have had recommended to me Kolyma Tales by Shalamov. Have you read or heard of this?
Kolyma Tales Varlam Shalamov
Just read From Here to Eternity, the restored edition. Had seen the movie several times but didn't realize how much the language and situations had to be cleaned up in order to put the story on screen. Glad I finally got around to reading it.
David wrote: "Just read From Here to Eternity, the restored edition. Had seen the movie several times but didn't realize how much the language and situations had to be cleaned up in order to put the story on scr..."One of my all time favourite novels. I have not read the restored version but may have to eventually. In my opinion From Here to Eternity is a far better read than Mailers Naked and the Dead.
I have now read all three of Jones war trilogy. Thin Red Line was very good and I also read his unfinished Whistle and enjoyed that more than I expected.
4triplezed wrote: "Victor wrote: "4triplezed wrote: "Wade wrote: "4triplezed wrote: "Life and Fate by Vasily Grossman for me. Life and Fate Vasily Grossman
I have made a start on this...."
Very few people knew about Grossman until the Gorbachev's glasnost and perestroika. Grossman was out of press and out of favor with the Soviet government. I checked my copy of Life and Fate. It was published in 1989 in Moldova. That's when most people in USSR found out about the book existence.
Shalamov's Kolyma Tales came at the same time, years after the stories were written, under the similar circumstances. No one ever heard of Shalamov, but his first-hand account of GULAG horrors sent some shock waves. If you liked Life and Fate, you'd probably like the Kolyma Tales. It's been 26-27 years since I've read it, so I don't recall the stories, just Shalamov's raw and low-diction manner.
Happy reading!
Victor wrote: "4triplezed wrote: "Victor wrote: "4triplezed wrote: "Wade wrote: "4triplezed wrote: "Life and Fate by Vasily Grossman for me. Life and Fate Vasily Grossman
I have ma..."
Thanks for the reply Victor.
I have just finished steaming my way through a Christmas present, Operation Finisterre by Graham Hurley. Set in the closing months of 1944, it tracks the interwoven fates of a U-boat skipper wrecked on the Spanish coast and a security officer on the Manhattan Project.
Hurley does a neat job of this and holds the reader's attention throughout. If I were being picky I might ask what a full Kapitan is doing on a seagoing U-boat command, and point out that he seems to confuse kilotons and megatons at one point. The last quarter contains some anomalies which it would be a spoiler to mention but which are excusable in the interests of dramatic license.
Overall then a solid three-and-a-half to four stars. The research is commendable, especially considering this is Hurley's first venture (that I know of) into the WW2 arena. The storytelling is up to his usual standard and he weaves his story into the history with very few obvious joins.
4triplezed's post on the book. Life and Fate.... review of Life and Fate finished and review here =
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Absolutely superb book. I will add to the group though that I accept that it will not be for all. A very dense and challenging book for various reasons. Not specifically focused on the battle of Stalingrad for example. There are many chapters that cover the political trials and tribulations of certain persons for example. Though in the war they are, in my opinion, about the treatment of political issues in the USSR in general. Hence it being unpublished for many long years. Also as suggested in my review there is an emotion in the writing that if one is a cold hard pragmatist when reading factual history, I tend to be that way, it may not be to ones liking.
I also learnt a lesson that Christmas is not the right time of year to read a book such as this especially when I attend a lot of cricket and also watch it on TV.
I came across Grossman quoted in The Second World War - he certainly had incredible 'on the ground' insight into the Eastern Front.Delayed start with my reading but I'm chomping through The Cruel Sea, absolutely superb evocation of the sea war, with that detail of authenticity that only comes from experience.
Classic novel Bevan, rated quite highly with many WW2 naval readers!
4triplezed wrote: "I need to read The Cruel Sea."I finished it in January instead of December, but I thought The Cruel Sea was good. Well-worth reading.
THE WORLD WAR TWO GROUP
Books mentioned in this topic
The Second World War (other topics)The Cruel Sea (other topics)
Finisterre (other topics)
Life and Fate (other topics)
Life and Fate (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Vasily Grossman (other topics)Vasily Grossman (other topics)
Vasily Grossman (other topics)
Varlam Shalamov (other topics)
Vasily Grossman (other topics)
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I am going to try and finish this one for the montly group read. I want to start off by saying that in general I don't really care for this type of book. ..."
RPGs? Rocket-propelled grenades?