Books of Literature by Nobel Prize Winning Authors: 2020 Challenge discussion
For Whom the Bell Tolls
>
Week 3: chapter 21-30
date
newest »
newest »
message 1:
by
Tracey
(new)
Nov 23, 2016 07:42PM
post here
reply
|
flag
1. it was said, "And afterwards shoot the anarchists and the communists and all...except the good republicans.'But Anselmo said, "That we should win the war and shoot nobody. That we should govern justly and that all should participate in the benefits according as they have striven for them. And that those who have fought against us should be educated to see their error."
Do you agree with either point of view?
2. How does Robert feel about Maria? Robert said, "For me and Maria, we must live all of our life in this time."
What does he mean? What does he think is going to happen?
3. How did you feel reading El Sordo and his men's last stand?
I think Robert feels he should live in the now, because they might not be there later. I love the descriptions of the people, and of nature. Robert can enjoy the beauty that is around him, in both the surroundings, and the people.
Robert knows that he may not have long to live, so he lives his life in the time he has available to him. I have been reading a part with Pablo and Robert in the cave, and Pablo keeps making remarks to belittle Robert. He tells him he isn't a professor, because he doesn't have a beard. He tries to make him feel like a child, and talks about him having to be suckled by a woman. Richard thinks he should end Pablo's life.
Pablo wish he could bring life back to all the people he has killed. He thinks they will have to do a lot of penance when the war is over. He doesn't think Robert has any feelings about the people he has killed.
Nancy wrote: "Robert knows that he may not have long to live, so he lives his life in the time he has available to him. I have been reading a part with Pablo and Robert in the cave, and Pablo keeps making rema..."
I agree. Why do you think Pablo is like this with Robert?
Pablo thinks Robert has no feelings about killing people.
Nancy wrote: "Pablo thinks Robert has no feelings about killing people."Robert was young and not Spanish. Pablo I feel may have thought these 2 things precluded Robert from feeling what he, Pablo, felt, It seems that Pablo was carrying guilt and trauma from what had happened and was divided in himself. This agony was making him less able to lead and continue on in the war. He may have felt jealous of Robert's seeming ability to carry without all the angst Pablo was carrying. He felt he was the more experienced scarred man. All this inner turmoil must have made Pablo's life difficult.
The Spanish are in general a religious and passionate people and Pablo was having to deny a lot of his real self and Anselmo was even more torn from his true self. Hemingway's description of these 2 men is a beautiful depiction of how war can destroy the inner man even if the cause is one the man believes in. It is a wonderful anti-war novel and as such should be read more.
Even Robert Jordan talked about how the first six months of war men were naive, and thought they were in the right, so the killing they were doing was right. The doubts about the right of war would happen after the men were not so naive. Robert starts talking about how smart Pablo is, and how it takes being smart to survive as long as Pablo. Pablo was smart enough to turn the conversation around to a point, that the other men no longer wanted to kill him.
Nancy wrote: "Even Robert Jordan talked about how the first six months of war men were naive, and thought they were in the right, so the killing they were doing was right. The doubts about the right of war would..."Yes I believe Pablo was smart. I think this is why he was so torn by what he had done. He could see for himself that despite the propaganda, killing was something that was a crime against all humanity. I think this is why Hemingway chose the title from John Donne's poem. When we kill one, we kill ourselves also.
I finished the book last night. I liked Robert Jordan telling Maria to go on and take them both with her. If she had stayed, what they had been to each other, would have died with both of them. I have a niece who is going through grief over the death of her husband, and I have been trying to tell her the same thought, that Hemingway expressed in the end of this book. Her husband still lives as long as she lives.
Nancy wrote: "I finished the book last night. I liked Robert Jordan telling Maria to go on and take them both with her. If she had stayed, what they had been to each other, would have died with both of them. I..."
It was a beautiful and noble sentiment that Jordan expressed knowing that he was going to die. If one lives one's life that love has existed and been cherished, then I believe one can face death with this same nobility, and those that remain behind can be grateful for having known and been loved by this person. Loss is still hard, and I am sorry for your niece, but peace can come. Grief counselling can help, Hemingway expressed way before the movie, Titanic and the Celine Dion song "My heart will go on.' the belief that we are all part of a whole and none of us is lost if we have truly loved.
