Q&A with Josh Lanyon discussion
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Adrien English series challenge #1: Fatal Shadows
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The other hard part about this, is that while I may have read this originally wondering if Jake or Adrien had something to do with the murder, I've reread it so many times since then, knowing how it all ends, that I've likely dulled the original thoughts and just don't see much of that in the reading any more. If that makes sense.
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But back when I wrote..."
This is reminding me of the quote from CUTYS:
“Max's scarred brow crinkled. He reached for the coffee mug on his desk. “Motive is tricky. See, what might be a good reason for me to kill someone might not be a good enough reason for you to kill someone."
Swift stared at his hands loosely clasped around his ankle. “I wouldn't. Deliberately hurt anyone."
"And my impulse is to hurt anyone who hurts you.” When Swift's gaze lifted to his, Max said, “See how that works?"
He did, and while it wasn't intended as a compliment, it did warm his heart in a funny way. He managed to joke, “Why, I think that's the most romantic thing anyone's ever said to me.”
I could see Jake and Adrien having this conversation too. Though I have a sneaky feeling that if someone were to harm Jake, Adrien might just do them great harm.
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Exactly. Well, it's the fun or excitement of experiencing anything for the first time.
I think about this watching movies -- the first time you see a film, even the smallest flicker of eyes really stands out--but then the next time you watch for it, it seems not nearly as powerful. You almost wonder how you caught it the first time.
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But bac..."
Exactly my thoughts, Jordan! I, too, immediately thought of Max's comment from Come Unto These Yellow Sands!
Johanna wrote: "Elena wrote: "Johanna wrote: "Hmmm. Interesting. Well, that certainly does make one concentrate on every single word... :-)"I find myself skimming in English as much as in Italian if the book doe..."
When I learned foreign languages, I was always at my strongest in tests that were about reading or listening, while test about writing or grammar were my weakest. I knew people who were so good with grammar but really struggeled with reading tests. I suppose we all are different. So fo me to read in English is not hard. Of course I miss some reference here and there, but that's what re-reads are for.
Actually I think I pay more attention to the book if I read it in my native language. Like i'm left wondering whether that was correctly translated or not. I'm a fast reader anyway.
One thing though I did google during this read. On the first page Adrien describes Jakes haircut as neo-nazi... So I am more confused then ever about it now, since google had some intresting choices to show, but not that much common theme.
During this re-read I kept remembering tibits from Stranger Things Have Happened: An Adrien English Write Your Own Damn Story. Like what could have happened instead. :D
Mymymble wrote: "But Jake thinks he's treating Adrien with kid gloves, stopping Chan from arresting him and all. An uneasy contrast later to Paul. Jake seemed at this stage a very careful analytical cop. Aware of and resisting his prejudice to some rude extent."It's so interesting to read what all of you think of things I noticed too, but it's even better when you come out with connections that I didn't make.
You're absolutely right, Mymymble, I remember hating so much seeing Jake so protective of Paul in DOAPK.
Though that situation was different, it was still frustrating.
Mymymble wrote: "Josh wrote: "A weird thing for me as the writer is that really no one now can read even Fatal Shadows as those of you did all those years ago. It's inevitable because it's the first book in a serie..."Like Adrien said, Jake doesn't have the right temperament for being blackmailed.
K. wrote: "On the first page Adrien describes Jakes haircut as neo-nazi"Am I the only one thinking that that description of his haircut was used to give the reader a "negative" impression of Jake even before he opened his mouth to be rude?
Elena wrote: "K. wrote: "On the first page Adrien describes Jakes haircut as neo-nazi"Am I the only one thinking that that description of his haircut was used to give the reader a "negative" impression of Jake..."
Nope, I thought the same. that's why it took me so many re-reads to actually get curious about how that haircut looks like.
Mymymble wrote: "Josh wrote: "A weird thing for me as the writer is that really no one now can read even Fatal Shadows as those of you did all those years ago. It's inevitable because it's the first book in a serie..."LOL Roger Akroyd was the first thing to spring to mind for me too! ;)
For me I think the audiobooks made me take so much more notice to the smaller things. I'm a fast reader. Sometimes too fast as in it happens I skip things without even noticing. While when I listen I have to do it more slowly and really listen. Plus good narration brings the smaller things and nuances to light.
I'm absolutely delighted to read all your insightful comments. It is also remarkable that after so many rereads we still notice quite important details that we had never noticed before (for me Rob versus Bob/the yearbook thing).Sorry for being a lurker at the moment...
Johanna wrote: "Karen wrote: "And why did he take out that million dollar life insurance policy?"I was thinking about the same thing yesterday evening, but I'm only in chapter 13, so I don't have any answer to t..."
When I got divorced, it was in our paperwork that we would each have life insurance for the kids' benefit, so that their standard of living wouldn't suffer if something happened to one of us. However, I certainly didn't name my ex as the beneficiary, even though he probably would have had control of it.
Johanna wrote: "Ame wrote: "I think next week I'll go writing down all the quotes I want to enjoy. Plus try to read more into everything imaginable since I've finished listening and there's a whole week until next..."Your audio player probably has a bookmark feature you might try out. (My bookmarks tend to happen due to accident)
Johanna wrote: "Josh wrote: "So a lot of what I tried to very carefully lay out in that first book...that maybe Adrien *had* killed Robert, then maybe Jake *had* killed Robert is totally lost now. I don't think an..."Claude made a compelling case. I totally believed Jake could have been the killer the first time I read it. I was half convinced this time, too. :)
Jake admitted he threatened Claude and meant it, but surely he wouldn't have followed through. Right? *gulp*
Josh wrote: "Lasted long enough to reach a period of gay fiction where the shock would be if he WAS the killer. ."you are so right
Josh wrote: "Well, if you do want to "challenge" the H&M books, you might want to wait until NEXT year at this time because I'm planning that next H&M book for next December. ;-)."yay!
Elena wrote: "I don't think anyone now starts that book fooled for a second into believing Adrien or Jake could possibly have committed the murders.But back when I wrote FS most readers would have suspected Jake of being the killer."
That's so true. I read it for the first time when the series was complete and I comtemplated the thought of Jake being the killer for about one second before thinking:"that's not possible, there're other four books about him and Adrien, there's no way he's the killer."
Adrien as the killer didn't even cross my mind.
Now I'm curious though, there was ever any chance that Jake would end up being the killer?"
I never considered it either, but I certainly could see how the other characters would believe it. And it never crossed my mind that Adrien did it. That's just crazy talk.
I was lucky when I found this series because I was new to M/M and wasn't yet on GR or even the Amazon MM forum or anything. But I did find DoaPK first and got about three or pages into that one before realizing there had to be other books before that one and going back to find them. So while I knew it was a series and that Jake and Adrien were both still around in book 4, the beginning of that book created a sufficient amount of tension and distrust that it did color the way I read the first book.
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I seem to recall that Adrien's surmise was something along the lines Bruce stood up Rob (or left their meet-up spot after Rob was late?), then showed up much later to apologize and lured Rob into the alley with a story of his car being stalled out there.
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Me too!
Karen wrote: "K. wrote: "During this re-read I kept remembering tibits from Stranger Things Have Happened: An Adrien English Write Your Own Damn Story. Like what could have happened instead. :D"..."
Me three!
...being killed, getting crippled, visiting Ball and Chain, pirates, vampires....good times
Linda wrote: “I never considered it either, but I certainly could see how the other characters would believe it.”Absolutely, Jake was set up throughout the book to seem like the perfect fit as the killer.
Linda wrote: “But I did find DoaPK first and got about three or pages into that one before realizing there had to be other books before that one and going back to find them. So while I knew it was a series and that Jake and Adrien were both still around in book 4, the beginning of that book created a sufficient amount of tension and distrust that it did color the way I read the first book.”
DoaPK is the worst possible book to stumble on into the middle of the series. The first pages were like a punch in the gut for me, I can see how they would have affected your experience of the first books, Linda.
along the lines Bruce stood up Rob (or left their meet-up spot after Rob was late?), then showed up much later to apologize and lured Rob into the alley with a story of his car being stalled out there.”True, I assumed Bruce killed him when they met for their date, but it probably happened like Adrien imagined. Very similar to how Adrien’s murder would have gone if Jake wasn’t there.
”You know, this won’t be an easy thing, Adrien.”An officer-involved shooting was not going to be fun, righteous or not.
“The investigation you mean?”
“No.” He gave me that crooked smile. “No, I don’t mean that.”
If only you knew, dear Jake.
You know, I never really saw Jake as a self-loathing type of guy or having internalized homophobia, so it was curious reading all the posts mentioning that. To me, Jake seemed like the type of guy who had never experienced "Love" in a sense. There was no such thing as "Gay" to him just homosexual urges. Falling in love with another man was just ridiculous to him. Jake's views on gay men was him not understanding. He was homosexual, he did not want to play house, he did not want to kiss, all he had ever wanted was sex and nothing more. That's why he snorts at the cover of "China House" and why he makes that disgusted sound when Adrien calls him gay after Claude's slaying. Even his first kiss with Adrien seems to suggest that Jake did not equate love/relationships and gay men. I mean Paul was maybe someone who he could relate to and that man is not the best example to use for crying out loud.
In the last book, He tells Adrien that he thinks him smart enough but not a genius, funny enough but not a comedian etc. I think what made Jake start to accept himself was the fact that he finally found love when he met Adrien.
Self loathing never really popped into my head while reading this. Of course its been along time since ive read these books cover to cover so I might see more clearly on this run :)
Back to the book. I missed Claude!, I'd forgotten how funny he was! loved his french.
"Where the hell have you been?" Claude greeted me, sounding less French Quarter and more South Central than usual...
I literally laughed out loud when I got to that part. :D
Loretta wrote: "When I got divorced, it was in our paperwork that we would each have life insurance for the kids' benefit, so that their standard of living wouldn't suffer if something happened to one of us. However, I certainly didn't name my ex as the beneficiary, even though he probably would have had control of it."Ehmm... I'm divorced as well: my ex husband is the beneficiary of my life insurance, and viceversa.
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I've never considered this option before — that Rob might have taken his sizable life insurance because of Claude. Interesting!
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"...while I continued calculating, Claude mumbled something I assumed was gutter french ending in, "- dickhead." "Are you addressing me?""
LOL!!!
“Holy Hell!...Are you nuts? You’re going to threaten a cop?”“Not any old copper,” cooed Claude. “Mr. Tie-You-Up-And-Beat-The-Shit-Out-Of-You-Before-I-Shoot-My-Load-Up-Your-Ass Detective Reargun.”
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"Where the hell have you been?" Claude greeted me, sounding less French Quarter and more South Central than usual...
I literally laughed out loud when I got to that part. :D"
Hah! :-D
Not very many authors manage to make me laugh out loud — not the way Josh does. :-) Now when the snow-shoveling-season has arrived again, my neighbors are giving me weird looks. Everyone else is pretty much fed up with constant snow shoveling while I'm happily laughing aloud while listening to AE books or Holmes & Moriarity series.
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An officer-involved shooting was not going to be fun, righteous or not.
“The investigation you mean?”
“No.” He gave me that crooked smile. “No, I don’t mean that.”
If only you knew, dear Jake."
Oh yes. The very last 30 seconds of Fatal Shadows audio book left me grinning widely.
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“Not any old copper,” cooed Claude. “Mr. Tie-You-Up-And-Beat-The-Shit-Out-Of-You-Before-I-Shoot-My-Load-Up-Your-Ass Detective Reargun.”"
:-D :-D :-D
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"Where the hell have you been?" Claude greeted me, sounding less French Quarter and more South C..."
That's the way to shovel snow!
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You know, I never realized this? Thanks for pointing it out! I'll need to pay better attention next time!
Hi! I'm trying to keep up with you, but you post really fast! I have a cuestión, though. Is there a timing for the reading or shall we read at our own pace?
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Awesome! The more readers the better! :-D
Johanna wrote: "I didn't remember that we only learn Jake's first name on the very last page of Fatal Shadows. How cool is that?! Both brave and clever of Josh! After so many rereads I didn't even realize this unt..."Me neither, thank you for telling us. That's Josh's genius!
Susana wrote: "Hi! I'm trying to keep up with you, but you post really fast! I have a cuestión, though. Is there a timing for the reading or shall we read at our own pace?"The schedule for the challenge is:
Week 46 (Nov. 14 - 20): Fatal Shadows
Week 47 (Nov. 21 - 27): A Dangerous Thing
Week 48 (Nov. 28 - Dec. 4): The Hell You Say
Week 49 (Dec. 5 - 11): Death of a Pirate King
Week 50 (Dec. 12 - 18): The Dark Tide
You can read at your own pace and jump in with the conversation any time. As you can see, some of us started early :-P
Johanna wrote: "Also, I've now officially lured hubby into listening to Fatal Shadows. He's in chapter 3 and truly enjoying it. :-)"Another addict!
It's so hard pacing myself. I told myself I was going to take a wee peek on the 13th and next thing I know I was 50% done with the book!. :o"I glanced around at Riordan. He was looking around my living room curiously. I wasn't sure what he found so interesting..."
"Why looking for a sponsor?"
"I'm strictly a safe sex kind of guy."
"Yeah?"
I didn't understand that odd smile.
Gosh. These little snippets suggesting that Jake is intrigued and totally falling for our little Adrien gets me all warm and happy inside. Ugh. why are there only 5 books in this series?. we need more! :D
Johanna wrote: "I didn't remember that we only learn Jake's first name on the very last page of Fatal Shadows. How cool is that?! Both brave and clever of Josh! After so many rereads I didn't even realize this unt..."Oh that's true! Neither did Adrien right? It's funny because reading through this I felt Jake got really familiar really fast with Adrien. For example when he first meets him, after the "talk" and right before he leaves, Jake picks up the Tab can off of the desk, crushes it and trows it in the trash. Or when he goes to talk to Adrien and sees Bruce step out of the house, he just follows Adrien up to the kitchen, tells him how he wants his coffee and plops his butt on a chair. So rude! haha
Johanna wrote: "I didn't remember that we only learn Jake's first name on the very last page of Fatal Shadows. How cool is that?! Both brave and clever of Josh! After so many rereads I didn't even realize this unt..."He's on the very first and very last page. How fitting. :-D
I barely dare to admit that on my first read I didn't see the Adrien-Jake relationship coming. I mean I could barely stand Detective Riordan. So, I was actually scratching my head when arriving at the last scene, like "What are they talking about?" Until I realised and then: Oh!
Johanna wrote: "Also, I've now officially lured hubby into listening to Fatal Shadows. He's in chapter 3 and truly enjoying it. :-)"You did?! Wow. :D
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a. Jake's "But you ARE homosexual?"
b. Jake noticing the Tab, commenting that he didn't realize they still made it, and then crushing it for no apparent reason.
And here's what I made of them in the moment:
a. Jake's accusation, because it IS an accusation, seems to also be saying "But you ARE a murderer, aren't you?" It's like he sees being homosexual somehow making it easier (or something) to commit murder. Now, how that relates to Jake's own homosexuality, I'm not sure. But in the moment, that's how I heard his line.
b. Jake, at this point, doesn't know how much Adrien likes Tab. However, he must realize it's probably hard to find. I heard this as Jake attacking something/someone Adrien likes/loves as a way to get him to crack about the murder he supposedly committed. OR Jake equated the can of Tab as Adrien himself, saying "I will figure you out and crush you because I know you did it."
Alan wrote: "It's so hard pacing myself. I told myself I was going to take a wee peek on the 13th and next thing I know I was 50% done with the book!. :o"I glanced around at Riordan. He was looking around my ..."
I never took that as a sign Jake was falling for Adrien. I took the smile as self mocking.
Calathea wrote: "Johanna wrote: "I didn't remember that we only learn Jake's first name on the very last page of Fatal Shadows. How cool is that?! Both brave and clever of Josh! After so many rereads I didn't even ..."That last scene took me by surprise too. I wasn't expecting that.
Q&A with Josh Lanyon
Books mentioned in this topic
Fatal Shadows / A Dangerous Thing (other topics)Stranger Things Have Happened: An Adrien English Write Your Own Damn Story (other topics)
The Boy with the Painful Tattoo (other topics)
Here there be dragons (other topics)
Fatal Shadows / A Dangerous Thing (other topics)
More...
But back when I wrote FS most read..."
Definitely too kind for murder.
I can imagine Jake murdering someone, specifically Paul Kane after a certain event, but not Adrien.