Harry Potter and the Cursed Child, Parts 1 & 2
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Maybe We Are Missing Something
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Oh boy! You are so satirical I love it! For not having read the book I like what you have written here!
I so like what you've written, especially the end. I don't want to discuss this book either. It almost makes me angry but I am not able to get over it at the moment. There are things that make me wonder if Mr Thorne has really read the old canon. For example: there's the Fidelius Charm, that saved James and Lily Potter from beeing seen by others. Don't these rules count for time travellers?
And I wonder why they brought back the time turner? I thought that time travelling was so complicated the last time, to not mess things up and created several possible realities, that J.K.R. decided to destroy them and let Dumbledore and Hermione warn the other characters how dangerous it could be. Still in the Cursed Child, suddenly time travelling is back again. Halleluja! And it was way more complicated than before: Albus and Scorpius created different realities. By going back they changed the past in a way that changed the future completely. I absolutely did not like that. In fact, it seemed like a desperate try to get as many old characters as possible into this play (Umbridge, Snape, etc.). Furthermore this time travelling brought up other questions: Why the hell would Cedric become a death eater? Of course, he got humiliated, still a weak explanation why this best Hufflepuff boy would kill Neville.
I like your idea with the curse! Sorry for talking so much about what I did not like, but maybe it helps me to get over it.
It is a really interesting idea, I almost desperatley hope that there's a bigger meaning behind this story.
At least it could be an explenation for Albus not choosing Gryffindor. Still I never thought this was the cause of all the conflicts...? In one reality Albus says himself they had the same problems even though he was a Gryffindor in that time. I always thought Harry was fine with it. Albus could not handle it and apparently because he does not at all belong to Slytherin. Same with Scorpius: it would have been much more interesting to see how Draco would have behaved after his son would have become a Gryffindor. I actually cannot see why Albus should be a Slytherin. Unfortunately this is a weak plot (as you said) as a baseline for the complete story.
Felicitas wrote: "I so like what you've written, especially the end. I don't want to discuss this book either. It almost makes me angry but I am not able to get over it at the moment. There are things that make me w..."Well, being in Slytherin was at least the start to his conflicts, but obviously other factors were at work as well. This event brought out Harry's true colours and prejudice, but I think that prejudice is a word that would NEVER describe Harry, and therefore proves that this is not our Harry; this story does not belong in the Harry Potter universe and should never be hailed as canon. And the Harry we know and loved would never say "I wish you weren't my son," but maybe he has been re-cursed to be a jerk in this story...?
Julia wrote: "**SPOILERS!!**Although I am incredibly disappointed by Harry Potter and the Cursed Child (although I had low hopes to begin with), I wonder if we are in fact missing the bigger picture, essentiall..."
Yes! Now you say so, I realise that you are probably right! How on earth did you work that out?
Satsuma wrote: "Julia wrote: "**SPOILERS!!**Although I am incredibly disappointed by Harry Potter and the Cursed Child (although I had low hopes to begin with), I wonder if we are in fact missing the bigger pictu..."
I was lying in bed just trying to pretend that the book didn't exist when I just started thinking about the title (and so far I have found that writing these forum topics has been the best way to cope with how upset this play has made me). I remember reading a discussion asking who the cursed child was, some arguing it was Albus, Scorpius, or Delphi, and I assumed it was Albus but I just started wondering what exactly it was that made him be labelled "cursed." Considering Harry's childhood as an orphan with the Dursleys, I thought the term matched him much better! So I just got on the computer and started typing, and what you see above is what came out!!
Wow! You are so clever!
I agree. I really liked Cedric and was sad when he perished. :(
That is all amazing BUT it's nowhere in Rowling's story. Which means that you write better stories than this untalented hack.
Zina wrote: "That is all amazing BUT it's nowhere in Rowling's story. Which means that you write better stories than this untalented hack."Just to confirm, you are calling J.K. Rowling the "untalented hack", right?!
Felicitas wrote: "I so like what you've written, especially the end. I don't want to discuss this book either. It almost makes me angry but I am not able to get over it at the moment. There are things that make me w..."The thing about him being miserable in Gryffindor: could be another effect of the "curse." He could be cursed to a life of misery in this reality, rather than a curse to not be able to choose his house. Maybe the curse is just so determined to find a way to hurt poor Albus!!
Is it the time-line where Scorpius was never born when Albus ends up in Gryffindor? I don't see how in the first place sharing a compartment with Scorpius would make Albus give up his choice for Gryffindor (implying that without Scorpius, he still would have made that choice).
Another thing I was thinking about... it seems like in Cursed Child, the only reason Albus gave up his Gryffindor choice (if that is what happened, and NOT actually a curse) was because he made friends with Scorpius (albeit in a single scene, where we are forced to imagine on our own what monumental event could have secured their friendship so quickly!). I started thinking more about Snape, and I looked over "The Prince's Tale" in Deathly Hallows, specifically Severus and Lily's train ride and the Sorting Ceremony. If a quick friendship made on the Hogwarts Express was enough to make Albus not choose Gryffindor, why wasn't a longer friendship between Lily Evans and Severus Snape enough to make Lily choose Slytherin to be with her best friend? Keep in mind she really didn't like any of James' friends, and yet she had just watched Sirius Black get Gryffindor and did not choose against it. Although Snape was sorted after Lily, she knew where he wanted to be sorted, and likewise, why wouldn't Snape then consider wanting to be in Gryffindor in order to be closer to Lily? Most students don't even have the Hat on their heads long enough to even think to ask it for their preferred House, with only a few students each year described as taking a few to many moments for the Hat to decide.So again, was it only a fluke that Harry could make a choice, while so many other first-years, Lily Evans included, took only a mere few seconds of the Hat touching their heads to end up in their proper Houses? Albus Severus, too, is described as not having the Hat on his head for longer than a moment or two, so is it really only our precious Harry Potter, The Chosen One, the only "one" who is capable of making a "choice"?
Satsuma wrote: "Wow! You are so clever!"yeah :D
ZnajomyZnajomego wrote: "Satsuma wrote: "Wow! You are so clever!"yeah :D"
Thanks!! :)
Ya we are really missing something
Hello :) I do think that Albus is supposed to be the cursed child.
However, like you pointed out, the title is a poor choice because the main story is not about Harry, it's about Albus. And if Albus is the main character, the title really shouldn't be Harry Potter and anything.
Which is just one of the many many MANY things that leads me to believe that this was simply a sloppily thrown together script for the purpose of milking the Harry Potter cash cow.
I don't think the "cursed" part is supposed to be literal. You could view it in one of three ways - from Albus' perspective, from everyone elses perspective, or because of the way the story goes.
Albus feels cursed (in this wacky version) because he's Harry Potter's son. He's famous and hates it. Mainly because he feels he doesn't live up to the Potter name. Emphasized by the way James and Lily do.
He mopes over that for a few years and it turns into anger and resentment.
From everyone else's perspective, he's "cursed" because he's in Slytherin, because he doesn't seemingly have much in common with his father in terms of talent, and he's pretty angry. In essence, he's the black sheep of the family.
Lastly, it could be an indication that Albus is the catalyst for the world as they know it almost being destroyed. Albus was the one in Delphi's prophecy (which was stupid because it made no sense, but okay...) and he was the one who almost made it possible for Voldemort to come back.
It's a sloppy way to attempt to tie in the title, but I think that's the reasoning behind it. Not an implied actual magical curse. The author did very little with anything magical, so it's not really surprising that he'd neglect anything to do with magic with this part too.
I don't think Harry despised Albus for being in Slytherin. He was probably disappointed (especially since everyone else would have been talking about it, and because Albus lets it start to define him), but their animosity came from the conflict between them. Which was basically all due to Albus' whining and pity parties.
I really think in this version, Albus winds up in Slytherin because he asked the hat to put him in Slytherin.
You're right, it doesn't make much sense in light of the fact that a few hours before that, he thought it would be the end of the world, but I think that's what the author did. But of course, we can't really know, since it's not explained.
Although, he may have just had an aptitude for Slytherin. Slytherin isn't synonymous with evil even though for a while everyone views it that way. There are specific character traits associated with those in Slytherin. Which is why Harry also could have been sorted into Slytherin. Harry could have gone to Slytherin, Ravenclaw, or Gryffindor since he possessed qualities that fit in all three, but he made the decision to go in Gryffindor.
Maybe the reasoning with Albus was that the hat saw that he could have gone in either Slytherin or Gryffindor, and because he just saw his new friend go in Slytherin, he chose to stay with him. I think there was some extra pressure to stick with his friend because of the conversation he and Rose had on the train before they met Scorpius - about how their parents met on their first train ride. He felt like he had to make a lifelong friend and Scorpius was who he met.
I agree, it's not a strong enough motivation considering everything else, but it does, at least mildly, make a little sense. I mean, as much as anything else in the book does.
Did Neville ask for Hufflepuff? I don't remember that. But it's been a long time since I read the books.
I'd say that if that's the case, and the hat disregarded that, it would be because he didn't belong in Hufflepuff. The hat sorts the kids where they belong, not necessarily where they want to go. Harry just could have fit in three different houses. It's not that way with everyone.
Basically, this book was a complete mess. There are plot holes and contradictions galore. I think trying to figure them all out based on the real series is essentially futile. Because I don't think there is an explanation for most of it. This author makes the classic mistake of people who are quickly trying to get a story written to just get it out there - it's rushed and forced. He wanted the plot to go a certain way and so he forced it in that direction without a logical or natural path. Probably because it would have taken too much effort. Which is probably why it's a screenplay and not an actual story. He was lazy.
It's even worse with this because he didn't even take the time to get to know the world and characters he was writing about. He completely eliminated characters, made up new things that contradicted what was possible and authentic in that reality, and he made it more of a sci fi (like you said) rather than a story about magic.
So I wouldn't stress too much about the whys of the story. I'm writing it off as a crappy fan fiction and not part of the actual series.
Honestly, the only reason it's even selling is because Rowling put her name on it. Which is really a shame because it's just so bad. I can't believe she even read it before hand.
I was just looking to find any meaning behind any part of this disaster... I feel like the Harry Potter books represent like a part of my family, so you never want to write it off completely, but sometimes you just can’t justify the poor choices being made. Does that make sense?It was actually why I started taking notes as soon as Albus ended up in Slytherin... I thought it would get better and that I would be able to make predictions as I read and then cross reference them at the end... but no such luck. I was just preparing myself for much more muchness... only to fall short.
The Neville detail is taken from Pottermore, under the Hatstall section, I believe.
Julia wrote: "I was just looking to find any meaning behind any part of this disaster... I feel like the Harry Potter books represent like a part of my family, so you never want to write it off completely, but s..."No, I get it, I just don't feel that this story is a legitimate addition to the series. Maybe if it had been written by Rowling I'd try to reconcile some of it. But that's clearly not the case.
But I get the wanting answers....I just don't think there are any.
Ah, ok. I never read anything from Pottermore.
I don’t think we’re missing a thing, I love the book but there were some valid points spoken across. I suppose the plot of Albus in Slytherin is a little out of context but maybe he just had Slytherin in him like Sirius was in Griffindor while every other member of his family was Slytherin. People can be different from their parents and those before them because not everything is inherited, Albus is his own person and if he truly belongs in slytherin then the hat chose well.
I should probably also say that it is quite a lazy and expected plot. We’ve all seen those sequels where they are having opposite problems to those before them and this is too repetitive. I mean, Harry Potter was known for surprising people! Who thought Harry was a Horcrux in HP and the Philosopher’s Stone? Cursed Child is too lazy, repetitive and predictable. They should make a better version.
I should probably also say that it is quite a lazy and expected plot. We’ve all seen those sequels where they are having opposite problems to those before them and this is too repetitive. I mean, Harry Potter was known for surprising people! Who thought Harry was a Horcrux in HP and the Philosopher’s Stone? Cursed Child is too lazy, repetitive and predictable. They should make a better version.
Julia, can I just say how well thought through all your comments are? You are amazing! You put so much effort and detail, hats off to you, gurl. 👌🏽👍🏽
Sana wrote: "Julia, can I just say how well thought through all your comments are? You are amazing! You put so much effort and detail, hats off to you, gurl. 👌🏽👍🏽"Thanks, Sana! I love using Goodreads to reflect the "madness within" my own mind! 🤣 And I'm very passionate about the topic 😏
Have you read my other discussions on this play? There are quite a few... and writing these theories have actually helped me recover from the trauma this play inflicted on me...!
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Although I am incredibly disappointed by Harry Potter and the Cursed Child (although I had low hopes to begin with), I wonder if we are in fact missing the bigger picture, essentially the meaning behind the name. Each of the books follow a pattern for their names: Harry Potter and the (insert major plot element here). And like any of the books, the name is the first definite piece of information we were given about this work.
When it was later revealed that the main character was Albus Severus, the connection was assumed (I'm not sure if it was ever stated directly, though) that he is the cursed child, because he is struggling with his family name and the standards involved with living up to it.
As I read the book, I found that none of the plot made sense with the series. Most of the characters were dull or annoying, Scorpius exempted. I didn't understand why Albus did not end up in Gryffindor. (Plot-wise, it needed conflict. Otherwise, it was a lazy plot device!) Harry got Gryffindor by choosing it, and since we cannot see into Albus' head, we do not know if he decided to let the Hat make the choice, or if the Hat merely disagreed with Albus and put him in Slytherin, much like it did when it put Neville in Gryffindor despite his pleas for Hufflepuff.
But I don't believe either of these options make sense. Albus was terrified of ending up in Slytherin, and although Harry told him that it wouldn't matter which house he got, I interpreted it as yes, Albus will get Gryffindor because that is his choice and choices are the ultimate driving force of all characters. I don't believe that a six hour ride to Hogwarts would make Albus change his mind about wanting to ask for Gryffindor. If he simply did not make a choice, then he is a lazily written character that is not even worth discussing as a protagonist.
While the Hat may disagree with a person's house choice, I believe it looks at the greater good. Neville would have felt safe in Hufflepuff, but without the pressure of being courageous that is put on those in Gryffindor, I don't think he would have developed that bravery. By placing him in Gryffindor, Neville had something to live up to and prove, especially to himself. Ultimately, Neville's house placement nurtured his character development, essentially bringing him to destroy Voldemort's final Horcrux.
On the other hand, Albus got Slytherin. As a result, his father despises him. He changes the past and, in one possible future, has caused a chain of events that kill Harry. His house placement moulded him into a horrible person, which seems unlikely for not only a descendant of Harry Potter, but for a Weasley child as well.
So my only way to make any sense of this mess is to look at it in as any approaches as possible, which brings me back to the title. I am making the assumption that Albus Potter is the cursed child, and I am taking it as literally as possible. Up to this point, we have considered Albus to be "cursed" because of his life struggles. Similarly, the term would be used to describe any person or character dealing with extreme conflict. BUT this is the Harry Potter universe, in which a curse is a specific type of magic. It is the strongest type of dark magic and includes the killing curse and torture curse. Is the ultimate logic not then that Albus in fact is under a curse of sorts?
Perhaps there was no caster. Like love, it could be caused by something more powerful than a spell yet it still is magical. And looking back at what little canon information about Albus we were given in the Deathly Hallows, I have to wonder if it comes back to a simple detail: Lily's eyes.
Albus is described as being the only of Harry's child to have inherited green, almond-shaped eyes. It seems like this may in fact be a beautiful, tragic curse.
Lily Sr. was the origin of these eyes. Her family was targeted when her child was a baby. She was betrayed by a family friend, lost her husband, almost lost her son moments later, and met her own death at the age of twenty-one.
Harry is the first to inherit her eyes. The Chosen One, he is tortured by his aunt and uncle, faces Voldemort multiple times, is seen as Public Enemy Number One, watches many of his loved ones die, and constantly faces internal conflict. Harry is another person who seems to be "cursed."
By extrapolation, I propose that Albus was in fact cursed. Something stronger than magic, much like love but in the darkest form, placed a curse over Albus. He was cursed to not be able to choose Gryffindor, and having inherited some of his father's traits, the curse extended to the point where the Hat had a blocked perspective of Albus. It masked the Gryffindor traits and exemplified the ambition and other Slytherin qualities, therefore placing him in the latter house.
And that was all that the curse needed to do. By putting Albus in Slytherin, he clashed with his entire family. He almost brought back Voldemort. The Wizarding World shifted to the favour of the Dark Side because of a "cursed" character.
It seems like it is staring us in the face; if it had been called, "The Transfigured Child," (although this may suggest the wrong idea) or "The Charmed Child," or even "The Hexed Child" or "The Jinxed Child" (all other types of spells), we would have immediately recognized it as a spell. But "cursed" is an ambiguous term, which is why we are able to have this discussion.
Harry Potter is ABOUT MAGIC. It is not about demigods, or dystopic futures, or science fiction. If it was science fiction, it might be called Harry Potter and the Time Machine. Because of the genre, we would conclude that it is about a literal time machine, not a metaphor for the way that puberty is like a time machine, bringing us to the future in a sneaky coming-of-age novel. Sometimes things just are what they are, and I believe strongly that a curse placed on all those with green, almond-shaped eyes is the catalyst that drives the plot. Albus was literally CURSED, and that is why he behaved the way he did and ended up in Slytherin.
All-in-all, I hate that I feel like I need to discuss this book. I don't like it and wish it didn't exist. But because it has left me feeling so incomplete, I just need to figure out if there is any reason or sense behind it, or else I will lull in this misery forever!