Where to discuss Cosmere?

[Josh]

Where's a good place to discuss the cosmere? I know about the 17th shard website but is there a forum or can I just chat about it casually here?

[Michael]

I would love to casually chat about the cosmere here (although we may want to use spoiler tags just to be safe).

[Kenneth]

Or just tag the whole thread spoilers in the title and move on out. What do you want to talk about?

[Lauren]

My brain explodes when I start thinking about the cosmere Sanderson is unbelievable!

[Roland of Gilead]

Heck yeah, it's so awesome. I'm really hoping Sanderson expands on some of the novellas he's written. I love the worlds he created in Sixth of the Dusk and Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell. I'd love to see more of either of them possibly in a full length novel, but he's just got so many projects already planned I don't know how he'd fit them in.

[Michael]

I want more of those cosmere worlds too! I have so many questions!! I'm of course a Stormlight man all the way - I am so excited for the next book in that series!

After Secret History - I want to see more of the cognitive realm too.

[Lauren]

Secret history is coming out as a novella soon so I'm waiting to get the physical copy I'm a real book fan, it's hard to wait thought. I own almost all of his books except the Alcatraz ones but now I let his series build up before I get into them he always ends the last pages with crazy twists and I need to be able to pull the next one out right away, like the reckoners I just finished recently in a weekend or how I tried with the last Mistborn books until I finished bands of morning and realized there's another one coming which I can only be excited about now! (At the time I was freaking out with the ending)

[Josh]

Awesome ya I just want to hear anything that people have caught here and there no matter how big small or valid. Also I use the goodreads app exclusively so I don't know how to tag spoilers so I'll just say SPOILERS from here on out.

[Josh]

So what I noticed that I thought was interesting is the other day I was rereading Warbreaker and towards the beginning when Siri is in the palace they cut her hair and she regrew it right on the spot and after she said it made her feel tired and hungry which made me think that it sounds a lot like Lifts power of regrowth when she uses her power. It could be a stretch because I'm pretty sure Lift got her ability to metabolize Stormlight from the Nightmother but on the other hand Sanderson said Stormlight can be used a lot like breath I'm pretty sure. Anyways just thought it was interesting.

[Michael]

Good observation @Josh - I know that investiture needs to feed off something. But, I don't know how Lift is able to use food to fuel her power. It isn't like the trace bits of metal from cutlery like Vin used early on. Far as I know there isn't stormlight in food.

I don't think Siri is from Roshar or anything, but it could be possible.

[Josh]

Ya in don't think Siri is from Roshar either but I'm wondering if Stormlight works at all like breath in a somewhat lesser potency because Vasher is on Roshar and I thought maybe it was due to the stormlights link to breath.

Also another think I noted was that people with a certain amount of breath notice a glowing Aura of other people with breath and so I thought that sounded a lot like when Kaladin and shallan glow with Stormlight but I'm unsure on that because I think anyone can notice their glow.

I don't know just few interesting observations that might not have any real relavance

[Josh]

One last observation is that both the Returned and the people on their deathbeds on Roshar have visions of the future the link being that both have been to or have one foot in the door to the spiritual realm which could mean that time in that realm is ever present both future and past. And if you want to stretch this even further you could leap to that Hoid has been to the spiritual realm and that's how he knows where he has to be at a given time just not why.

Ha that ones kind of a big leap tho

[Michael]

Interesting theories. Hoid is an interesting chap - I really want to learn more about him and how his powers work. His flute story telling thing isn't lightweaving, but it is very similar. He has a bead of lerasium, and possibly used it himself (e.g. the possibly metal flakes think in one of Shallans visions), he aquired perfect pitch suggesting biochroma etc... We also know that he is somehow limited to indirect involvement.

[Louis]

I didn't read the whole thread here, but a great place to talk about the Cosmere is a group on Facebook titled The Stormlight Archive. There are 2600 members right now and it is very much a cosmere theory-fest/discussion board.

[Louis]

I didn't read the whole thread here, but a great place to talk about the Cosmere is a group on Facebook titled The Stormlight Archive. There are 2600 members right now and it is very much a Cosmere theory-fest/discussion board.

[Nate]

Josh, you mention some interesting points about similarities between Breath and stormlight. We have WoB where he states that Breath, the Mist (from Mistborn), and Stormlight are gaseous investiture.

Q. I know that there’s three sorts of forms that magic presents itself in, the liquid and the solid and air. What would Breath be?
A. Breath is definitely like Mist, it is in the form of the air.
Q. And is Stormlight the same?
A. Stormlight is the same. Good questions!
(source:

They are similar in their base composition. We also know from Brandon that Vasher is using Stormlight to stay alive by not needing to acquire additional Breath...but he hasn't yet figured out how to use it to fuel Awakening. The way Brandon worded this last part makes it seem like it IS possible to use Stormlight to Awaken objects. Thus your observation about their similarities is on point.

We further know from Brandon that "you can use most of the magics on most of the planets to fuel the other magics, if you know how to do it, it is not easy". To me, this is fascinating. It implies that maybe Hoid doesn't have ALL of the magics from each planet, but that he's figured out how to manipulate the various magics through his use of Yolish Lightweaving, and I'd wager through manipulating Connection.

[Josh]

Wow thanks that is awesome. I'm very much looking forward to reading the Ars Arcanum when it comes out because while I have read almost all his main novels I've been slacking In the short stories area and I'm sure they are full of hints and clues. If you have any other theories I'd love to hear them.

[Michael]

Nate - I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on metal throughout the cosmere. Silver specifically since it has implications in Threnody and Scadrial

Also do you think Bavadin is meddling on Scadrial during Wax's timeline? I sense a lot of radical philosophies around autonomy

[Nate]

Michael *Windrunner* wrote: "Nate - I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on metal throughout the cosmere. Silver specifically since it has implications in Threnody and Scadrial

Also do you think Bavadin is meddling on Scad..."

Ahh, the question of which Shard is meddling in Era 2 is an interesting one. There are A LOT of reasons to believe it's Autonomy, but I'm not so sure yet that I agree with them however, so far the evidence is pointing me to think it's Autonomy. Alternatively, it could be Odium as well.

I don't know if you've read the non-cannon prose version of White Sand...but there is an interesting name mentioned in that book that is thrown around a lot on Scadrial in Era 2 and Brandon has said they aren't a coincidence. (Brandon does that a lot though: there's a Felt on Scadrial and on Roshar. Recent WoB says it's the same person).

The metal that is more interesting to me around the Cosmere is aluminum. Silver on Scadrial is allomantically inert. It only shows up in electrum as an alloy. Brandon wanted to use it be couldn't because pewter is not a silver alloy.

But aluminum...it's been seen on many planets and appears to make investiture inert or absorbs it. On Scadrial, allomatically it makes investiture itself inert.. On Sel, aluminum is known as Ralkalest and cannot be forged and is used to line Shai's original prison. On Nalthis it cannot be Awakened and it's possible to prevent someone from Returning with aluminum (how, we're not sure). I'd wager it does interesting things on Taldain as well. Maybe it wipes out a Sand Master's ability to master sand somehow?

[Michael]

@Nate - you have given me much to think about.

A few comments by way of reply

1. I have read the non-cannon prose version of White Sand (way better than the comic in my opinion). I'm not sure if I remember this appearing in White Sand or not... but are you referring to (view spoiler)[ Trell (hide spoiler)].

2. Also I didn't know about Felt - who is he in Scadrial and Roshar? I have a hard time keeping the seemingly minor characters straight. But the Brandon anything can be cool/important.

3. The aluminum piece is very interesting. I didn't catch that Ralkalest was aluminum. Very interesting. I just read that items can be soul cast into aluminum. very interesting indeed. Once we really start seeing worldhopping in earnest I think my mind is going to explode.

4. Any theories on the metal found at the end of Shadows of Self? I read on coppermind that it is called (view spoiler)[Trellium (hide spoiler)] which reinforces the point I think you were making earlier and my own theory (assuming (view spoiler)[ Trell is linked to Bavadin (hide spoiler)]

[Nate]

@Michael

1) That's exactly who I'm referencing in the prose version of White Sand CAUTION: spoiler for the PROSE version: (view spoiler)[ Trell is a character who is trying to move some boulders/bricks at a fallen house. He's basically the lead in fixing the problem. Along comes Kenton and he lifts the boulder for him. (hide spoiler)]

2) Felt is the Venture house spy on Scadrial. On Roshar he is a scout in Dalinar's army. Coincidence? Nope! (Spoiler is a reference to the WOB on Felt) (view spoiler)[http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/... (hide spoiler)]

3) I imagine soulcast aluminum will be a major commodity traded Cosmere-wide. It's extremely rare on Scadrial, but if it's flooded into the market we'll see a lot of aluminum technology. It also has very interesting feruchimal and hermalurgic properties.

4) That metal in Shadows of Self is interesting. We're informally calling it Trellium right now until we get a better idea of which Shard it is associated with. For me it's either Autonomy or Odium. If other Shards can have metals manifest on Scadrial, what would happen if others converge there?! I'm also fascinated by ettmetal from Bands of Mourning. I think it's probably Harmonium, but I love that it's an alkaline metal because of it's explosive relationship with water. The Southern Scadrian language is, in my opinion, northern Germanic (i.e. Scandinavian), and "ettmetal" translates to "The One-Metal". Is this the lost metal or does "one" mean unified/harmony? I lean towards the latter.

[Michael]

Ah clever with the "Ett". That sounds like something Brandon would do.!

[Michael]

Also - After reading the thread you posted on Felt I think (view spoiler)[ isn't the kandra worldhopper.

I don't think this because of the lithe comment about his kind. Kandra aren't known for being lithe or unlithe. Kandra are master spy's by way of subterfuge and impersonation - not necessarily sneaking.

I do believe Elend was only aware of one Venture Kandra. But I'm sure Straff kept a secret or two up his sleeve... but I don't think that is the case here.

I don't think Felt is Hoid - for a lot of reasons. One of which is Hoid's face is known to Dalinar's army via the Wit persona.
(hide spoiler)]

[Nate]

Yah, I'm not certain who Felt is exactly, but I hope we'll see more of him. So many worldhoppers to discover and theorize about!

For a long while I thought Drehy was a Terris worldhopper. All of his descriptions of being long limbed and lanky seemed to be strong evidence...until I asked Brandon and he laughed and said that's just what his friend who Drehy is modeled after looks like. Killed my theory immediately. But we can still try to figure out who the Terriswoman worldhopper is!

I also was obsessed for a while on figuring out what Allik was saying in BoM whenever he talked in his own language. Some of his words seemed like gibberish, but a lot of it wasn't. For example, when he first sees Wax use his allomancy he says "Hanner konge?" This literally translates in Norwegian to "He is a King?" Which sounds a lot like their description for the Sovereign. Other examples of the language: Allik also describes Preservation and Ruin as "Herr" and "Frue" which literally translate to "Mr." and "Mrs." in Danish.

[Michael]

Wow - that is hard core with the language translation piece. You make me want to look into that as well. Any other cool examples?

What Terriswomen do we even know? Tindwyl of course, but it isn't her. Demoux's terriswoman love interest - which would make a TON of sense... but I can't even think of other candidates. I'm sure there are tons, but I'm drawing a blank. I will need to head over to the 17th shard and do some hunting.

Do we definitively know where the terriswoman worldhopper appears? I've heard the nurse theory from warbreaker, but don't know if it has been confirmed by now.

[Nate]

Brandon has explicitly said that the Terriswoman worldhopper is in Warbreaker. Our best guess is that it is Demoux's girlfriend Aslydin because Brandon has said she's a worldhopper: "Aslydin is in the Seventeeth Shard, and had her own work to be about"

The prevailing theory is indeed that she is the nurse in Warbreaker. However, Brandon seems to always RAFO if the nurse is our worldhopper. I had a theory for a while that she was Jewels (despite a description of being short and stocky), but Brandon nixed that in my signed copy of Warbreaker.

What are your favorite theories or ideas about the Cosmere?

[Michael]

Honestly - just the garden variety theories. Bavadin's involvement in Scadrial is one of my favorites.

I also a huge stormlight fan - I like trying to find the heralds and piece together what they are on about. And trying to figure out what the dawnshards are etc.

[Nate]

Do you think Taln is the real Taln? I ask, because his sword is noticeably different from it's original description relative to the one that Dalinar bonds and because of his eyes not changing color when he wields said sword (like Szeth's does when he wields the Windrunner blade).

Original description: "long, narrow, and shaped line an enormous spike".

Description of the blade Dalinar bonds: "Wider than most, it was almost cleaver like in appearance."

Brandon has said that something strange is gong on here:

QUESTION
At the very end of Words of Radiance, Dalinar touches a Shardblade and it screams at him. Should that particular Blade have been safe?

BRANDON SANDERSON
No it should not have. It's a clue that something has happened. There are other clues that something is wrong with what the story you've been told is.

QUESTION
Because Option 2 is that it's unsafe to touch an honorblade, but there's no evidence of that.

BRANDON SANDERSON
There is no evidence of that. There's much stronger evidence that something else is going on.

QUESTION
Did Hoid switch out the blades?

BRANDON SANDERSON
Hoid did not switch out the blades, but good question.

[Michael]

Yeah - I've seen this, but I'm not sure what to make of it yet. I'm not sure if Taln is the real Taln, but I'm confident his blade isn't an honorblade. It would have to be an undocumented shardblade that neither the Sons of Honor nor the Ghostbloods were aware of. Taravangian is capable of this kind of trick, but I don't think it is him. Probably not a purelaker or a turtle island person that I keep forgetting about. The Shin? perhaps... but likely not. Bottom line, I'm not sure who is the culprit.

I don't think the blade is from another world as I don't think the worldhopping storyline will come to the forefront just yet. I don't know much about dawnshards yet - but don't think that this fits.

I'm not decided on if the Taln is the real Taln or not, but I think it might be. I'm just not sure...

[Michael]

Alright Nate / anyone else still reading this thread.

Lets take a moment to make some Roshar lists shall we...

Organizations:
- The Diagramists (personally one of my favorites to see unfold)
- Ghostbloods
- Sons of Honor
- The Envisagers (Teft's family thing)
- Knights Radiant
- Shin (included because they seem to be up to something and have the honor blades etc)
- (view spoiler)[ Skybreakers (hide spoiler)] <-- I put in "spoiler" because I only think we had clues about this prior to Edgedancer
- (view spoiler)[ Sleepless... (hide spoiler)] <-- Edgedancer spoiler

Any I missed? I find these groups to be fascinating and I'm excited to learn more about all of them (especially the second spoiler tag.)

Alright - next list.
Heralds and what they are up to
- Jezrien (view spoiler)[ Szeth had his Windrunner honorblade, now Kaladin has it. I personally don't know much else (hide spoiler)]
- Nale (view spoiler)[ He was at the Parshendi treaty signing with a companion (likely Kalak). Talked to Jasnah, but I don't know what he was on about, but I get the feeling he was in part responsible for Gavilar's death. he WAS hunting radiants and organizing the skybreakers to help him. Gave Szeth Nightblood... which he just had laying around. AKA "Darkenss" (hide spoiler)]
- Chanarach (view spoiler)[ I don't know anything (hide spoiler)]
- Vedel (view spoiler)[ I don't know anything (hide spoiler)]
- Paliah (view spoiler)[ I don't know anything (hide spoiler)]
- Shalash (view spoiler)[ Running around scratching her face out of stuff for some reason (hide spoiler)]
- Battar (view spoiler)[ I don't know anything (hide spoiler)]
- Kalak (view spoiler)[ The herald from the prelude. Likely with Nale during Gavilar's murder (hide spoiler)]
- Talenal (view spoiler)[ well this is a matter of some debate isn't it... (view spoiler)[
- Ishar (view spoiler)[ I don't know anything (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

[Nate]

Yes! don't forget about Cosmere-related groups that are active on Roshar like the 17th Shard. In the Purelake Interlude chapter we saw three members of the 17th Shard hunting Hoid: (view spoiler)[ Demoux of Scadrial, Baon of Taldain, and Galladon of Sel. Kolo? (hide spoiler)] The other one has to be what Khriss and Nazh are associated with, maybe AU SPOILER (view spoiler)[ Silverlight is a city and/or an organization? They seem to be distinct from the 17th Shard. (hide spoiler)]

[Michael]

Yeah - I thought about including the 17th Shard - and perhaps should have. Filtering to those headquartered in Roshar is likely a mistake. I just keep thinking that the worldhoppers are going to be in the background for at least a little longer...

[Japhia]

Turns out, I don't I understand what's going on in the cosmere.

[Roland of Gilead]

You and me both. I find that I'm borderline incapable of contributing to this chat.

[Nate]

I don't want to exclude anyone from this chat. I probably have an unhealthy obsession with the Cosmere, but I don't want to usurp anything. How about we change gears with this and turn it into a Cosmere Q and A? Or sharing whatever theories one may have about anything.

[Roland of Gilead]

Oh no, that isn't what I meant-I'm grateful for it. I'm learning plenty just from reading this discussion and that's just fine with me.

[Japhia]

Agreed!

[Nate]

Oh geeze, has anyone read Edgedancer yet? I want to talk about things in there! That new species/group (view spoiler)[ The Sleepless are Dysian Aimians! Yes!! (hide spoiler)] is fascinating.

[Michael]

I've read it! I didn't know about (view spoiler)[ Dysian Aimians, but I will say that Axies is a character that I have been eager to see more of (hide spoiler)]

[Nate]

Edgedancer Spoiler (view spoiler)[ It makes me wonder if every time we get a mention of random small cremlings...it's actually a Dysian Aimian spying. I may need to go back and re-read to see if anything odd stands out during an important conversation. I also think the Dysian Aimians are purely of Cultivation, given how Arclo spoke. I loved it!

Oh, and I love Axies too. I can't wait to see more of him. Maybe he'll be a book main character in the second half of SA? I loved the name drop there to let us know that they're Aimians too. (hide spoiler)]

[Michael]

Edgedancer spoiler (view spoiler)[ is progression the only surge that heals? if so that means that Stump is either a Edgedancer or a Truthwatcher. Any confirmation or clues one way or another (hide spoiler)]

Another Edgedancer spoiler (view spoiler)[ what do you make of Szeth's blurriness or whatever it is? Does it have to do with Nightblood, or his death or something? How come only Lift seems to be able to see it? So many questions! (hide spoiler)]

[Nate]

Edgedancer Spoiler, in response to Michael: (view spoiler)[ Progression is indeed the surge that heals (and grows things) and is unique to Edgedancers and Truthwatchers. Stump's spren looks very different than Wyndle: it looks like a flash of light in a mirror. New WOB from one of the AU signings said that the spren of other Edgedancers would look like vines just like Wyndle, but Wyndle is a little bit longer. Someone also asked if Ym is an Edgedancer, and Brandon said no. Thus, we can only assume that both Ym and Stump were/are Truthwatchers. You can see these WoB's in the 17th Shard events forum, where people are posting their questions and answers from the signings.

The afterimage/blurriness that Lift sees is interesting. Someone also asked Brandon about this at one of the AU signings:

Q: Could only Lift see Szeth's afterimages?

A: Anyone sufficiently Invested can see them. Connection to the Cognitive Realm helps, too

What these are is still up for debate. In fact, there's a whole thread debating it on the 17th Shard. (hide spoiler)]

[Josh]

Ya I'm not nearly as well versed in the cosmere as you guys ha but I still love coming up with theories. I still think there might be a connection with Seri's ability to regrow her hair and it making her hungry and what Lift can do. Mind you I haven't read Edgedancer yet so maybe that disproved some things but we know different shard holders have been on different planets and as far as I know we don't know one of the holders on Nalthis so could there be a chance that the Night Mother is from or has been on Nalthis and may be the progenitor of the royal line? Idk it's a far out guess but wonder what people think. And please feel free to debunk this as much as possible. Also night mother, night blood ha that ones probably just reaching.