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Classics for those who don't like Classics
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Sarah
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Sep 27, 2016 08:17AM
There are a few people in YLTO who do not get on with Classics as a genre. Me being one of them. There are many different reasons for liking/disliking a genre. And we're all entitled to our own opinion. I've set this thread up so people can discuss why they like/dislike Classics (or any other genre I guess), discuss whether we should write it off or continue to persevere, and to get recommendations that might turn a disliker of the genre in to a liker. There have been a few discussions in a number of posts this last week about this so thought it would be worth creating a thread for it. I've titled the thread in relation to Classics but feel free to discuss other genres too. If you recommend a book to someone, please state why it would be worth a go and why it's different to others in that genre.
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I just commented on the Lost in Translation thread that I find reading classics difficult because of the old English. It could be lost in translation. :)
Sorry Sarah, didn't mean to mess up the reporting thread! Thanks for setting this up.Cherie wrote: "How about
The Lady in White by Wilkie Collins?
The Last of the Mohicans by James F. Cooper?
The Count of Monte Cristo or The Three Musketeers by Alexander Dumas?
Tarzan of the Apes or The Prin..."
The Woman in White is something I've briefly considered reading, although Gothic horror is usually a bit too tame for me. More gore, please!
Mohicans - Western, ugh, not my cup of tea...
The Count or the Musketeers just don't seem interesting enough.
I read and reread all the Tarzan and the Mars books many times when I was a kid and loved them. I guess I might revisit Mars...
I often choose classics because they are available as CDs in our library and I can thus listen to them during the commute in my car. Plus they often work for various challenges.
Janice wrote: "I just commented on the Lost in Translation thread that I find reading classics difficult because of the old English. It could be lost in translation. :)"That might be one reason, although as English is not my first language. I'm not sure how much attention I pay to the "age" of the language, although I think I am able to - at least to some extent - recognize whether the language is old or more modern. It's more content than the language for me, I guess.
Joan wrote: "CAMILLA, Some of the books you love today will be classics tomorrow."That's so true! When I looked through my recently read books, there were several that I considered as having the potential of becoming a classic, although age-wise they weren't yet.
I enjoy Classics but I don't read enough of them. I always seem to pick up other books instead. When I was younger, I used to hate the genre with a passion, probably because of how they were taught in school. I remember loathing Wuthering Heights when we had to study it in English. However, I decided to give it another go when I was a bit older and I loved it. I think reading it in my own time and at my own pace helped and it also helped being a bit older as I was able to fully appreciate the themes and the complex nature of the central relationship. It's now my favourite classic novel. I find that some Classics are easier to read than others. I found The Woman in White very accessible in terms of language (despite its length) and I always recommend it to people. The Picture of Dorian Gray is another one that I recommend all the time, it is also accessible and not too long either. The same can also be said of A Christmas Carol. A lovely story, nice and short in terms of length and certainly not as dense as some of Dickens other work.I tend to think it's worth persevering with a genre you don't like, even if you only read them once in a blue moon. You may stumble across something you really like. I don't particularly enjoy Science Fiction but there have been a couple I have enjoyed in the past.
The thing with recommending a book in a genre someone doesn't like is that we can't blanket recommend it for everyone. We dislike a genre for different reasons. Old English has been mentioned as being an issue so more accessible book recs are ideal. But then there are others who find them very more focused on the characters, slow and boring with very little action, sometimes the plot is lacking and it's all about the atmosphere, with often poor dialogue (me). So the books recommended as more accessible wouldn't necessarily cut it for me. Does this make sense?
Another genre I've struggled with is short stories. I often gave up, never finishing a book. But I persevered. I finally found one that made me appreciate them (as well as some useful advice from Camilla). I have since read a few more which I've enjoyed and have a number of them in my kindle waiting to be read. So I'm pleased I kept searching. But I have no desire to do so with classics, romance or westerns (my other bogey genres). I'm not sure why I kept trying with obe genre but won't on the others. I guess I think now that life is too short to spend it reading stuff you don't like and there are so many books that I know I'll love.
Sure it does, Sarah. I'm the same: I pay more attention to what happens - or, in the case of most classics, doesn't happen - in the book than to the language.
Lisa wrote: " The Picture of Dorian Gray is another one that I recommend all the time, it is also accessible and not too long either."I recently listened to it and, sorry to say, didn't like it at all. It's not the length that bothers me in classics - I do like long books in my fave genres - but the "not-happening".
I wonder if our reactions to genres such as "classics" or "short stories" is a reflection of our feelings about schools, teachers, and being compelled to read particular books.And the books chosen by our schools set our view of the genre.
I disliked my English courses as a rule and I was seriously disgruntled the year we read Shakespeare's plays so... I never forgiven him for writing them.
Joan wrote: "I wonder if our reactions to genres such as "classics" or "short stories" is a reflection of our feelings about schools, teachers, and being compelled to read particular books.And the books chosen..."
That was the case with me for a while, Joan. I only liked a couple of the texts we had to study in school, the rest I hated. I think a lot of that was down to how we were taught. One of my English teachers was also a drama teacher (so she told us, anyway) and when we were studying 'Wuthering Heights', she used to read passages out loud to us but try and put on the accents that the characters had as well. She wasn't overly good at said accents so we spent most of the time cringing and wishing she would stop. Sometimes she would randomly pick one of us and make us read passages out loud and do the accents as well. It really put myself and a lot of others off the book.
Sarah wrote: "The thing with recommending a book in a genre someone doesn't like is that we can't blanket recommend it for everyone. We dislike a genre for different reasons. Old English has been mentioned as be..."It makes perfect sense to me, Sarah. Some classics are very slow in terms of plot development and don't contain a great deal of action or atmosphere. I personally enjoy character-driven stories so I don't mind it if not a lot happens so long as the characters hold my interest. However, I really struggle if a book has uninteresting or underdeveloped characters and a slow moving, actionless plot.
I listened to Dorian Gray too and had a similar experience to you Camilla! lol I liked the film though.I think that contributes Joan for sure. I only really remember enjoying 2 books we studied in English at school. One was a play and another a Dystopia/Post apocalyptic book. The rest were Shakespeare. No real classics as such. So it's not what has caused me issues with Classics although I was put off overanalysing what I was reading. I guess it has also taught me that it sucks to read a book that you're not enjoying just because you're told you should or feel you should because "it's a classic/best seller etc."
Sarah wrote: "I listened to Dorian Gray too and had a similar experience to you Camilla! lol I liked the film though.I think that contributes Joan for sure. I only really remember enjoying 2 books we studied i..."
Which film version of Dorian Gray did you watch, Sarah? Was it the one from a few years ago or one of the older adaptations?
I wonder if the pace of classics is jarring because we approach them like movies when they are written more like television sagas...think Downton Abbey or Orange is the New Black. The plots and characters developed slowly, often in monthly installments for Dickens & Trollope. Perhaps they'd be more readable at one chapter per week rather than as a toppler.
I must admit, I haven't read that many classics (I set myself a goal of reading 4 this year and have managed a whopping 5!!) There are some I just don't like the sound of (titles like Sense and Sensibility, Pride and Prejudice have me yawning before I've even opened the flyleaf. I probably do them great injustice ).Having said this, I do read and enjoy classics on occasion, much more now than I used to. BUT.... I first need to consciously relax and get my head into an appropriately chilled-out 'classics zone'.
I always tell myself that in the days of classics, books were rare and expensive. I imagine readers settling down with a treasured new book expecting to spend weeks and weeks reading it and tingling with expectation. After all, there wasn't much else to pass the time, no TV, internet, smartphones, Goodreads etc etc. I imagine this to be the reason why classics are so leisurely paced... and try to emulate this... tell myself there's no hurry. For me, this is a different style of reading and I don't always feel like it.
Once in the zone, however, I sit back and enjoy the language, look for wry humour and try to put myself in the shoes of a reader of the period. I try not to rush and take things as they come... audio versions can help slow me down... buddy reads are possibly a good idea too. Classics generally operate on a number of different levels and benefit from mulling over and from discussion
By the way, I must stress that no consciousness-altering substances are necessary to get me into said Zone ; )
I also think forcing school children to read classics is often counter-productive. A bit of life experience definitely aids understanding. Anyway, instilling a joy of reading is surely better than force feeding heavy classic books (which often leave long-lasting memories of boredom and a feeling akin to 'bad indigestion').
Sarah wrote: "Another genre I've struggled with is short stories. I often gave up, never finishing a book. But I persevered. I finally found one that made me appreciate them (as well as some useful advice from Camilla..."Just wondered what advice Camilla gave - if she doesn't mind you saying of course.
I find short stories hard too. But try to overcome this by reading just one a day, rather than a whole book at once.
Annerlea, I loved your post, do you have a favorite classic?
Annerlea raises some excellant points. Earlier today I was talking to someone I work with about books I disliked in college but like today. Vanity Fair seemed boring when I was in college, but rereading it at 60 it was very funny. Part of the humor was satire of certain types of people you get to know over the course of a lifetime, and it went right by me when I was twenty. Many of the books schools assign are just too old for the kids being asked to read them. Annerlea also mentioned how 200 years ago, a book was a treat to be enjoyed and savored. That was particularly true of novels. To people who had previously had nothing to read but history, biography and sermons, a novel with a story was a new form of entertainment.
Annerlee wrote: "Just wondered what advice Camilla gave - if she doesn't mind you saying of course."Of course I don't mind saying, it's just the problem of remembering, LOL! It was at least a year ago. I'll see whether I can find the post. Sarah: if you have a better recollection about what I recommended to you, please tell. I know I geared my recs to Sarah according to what genres and authors I knew she liked. And I remember comparing short stories to photographs, whereas novels are a whole film. You just get a short, frozen view of a longer story, but looking at a photo can be really intriguing. When I read a book containing short stories, I often feel like I'm wandering in an art gallery that has a photo exhibition.
But yes, I like short stories. Actually now that I think of them, I realize that I read short stories also in the general fiction genre, which is something that I don't much do in novels.
I just reviewed my classics shelf and I have rated most of them 3 stars. The more modern classics tend to be rated higher. I keep trying though. Occasionally, I pick up a classic and give it a go. I have Wilkie Collin's The Moonstone coming up soon.
Yes it was the photo reference Camilla. I guess i now adopt a mindset when i read a short story that they are like a photo, a snapshot of something larger going on, details of which we are not privy too. There are things going on outside the setting of the photo but we only get to see whats inside the frame. And whilst only a snapshot, a photo can still tell a story and can be enjoyed in isolation. I really liked this. I've taken it a step further too so that when i finish a story, i'll think about what i liked about the story. As with a photo, there are only a handful of perfect photos. Most of the time, the object of focus is great but the setting, atmosphere, lighting etc is off, and in others the setting and background is perfect but perhaps the person has their eyes closed or are pulling a stupid face. So with a short story, i might not know what the hell was going on at the end of it but i might have liked the technology used or the world it was set in. This has helped me to appreciate them more. I have also veered towards short story collections by authors that i already know i like. I'm still not sure yet on anthologies by multiple authors but i will still give them a go. I also tend to have a novel on the go at the same time, just reading a story or two in a day with a gap in between where I'll head to my novel.
Thank you Annerlee for your insights on Classics. That too is a valuable piece of advice when approaching them. That little nugget might just be enough for me to give one a go and adopting that mindset of savouring, reading it slowly to prolong it over a period of time. So i guess having another a book on the go at the same time.
I'm really pleased I started this thread now :-)
Janice, I am going to read The Moonstone before the year is up too.
Joan wrote: "Annerlea, I loved your post, do you have a favorite classic?"Thanks Joan
Favourite...? mmm, difficult. For me, a favourite is a book that I really want to let rest a while before I re-immerse myself again, Classics don't really do this for me. The only classic I've ever re-read is Far from the Madding Crowd.
Having said that, I love the language and characters of Charles Dickens and like the way he gives a voice to the poor of his day and shows their struggles. There are so many of his novels I haven't read that I'd prefer to read a new one rather than go for a re-read, unless it was a buddy read (or caught my eye on a bookshelf in a weak moment).
I also enjoyed The Woman in White by Wilkie Collins... especially after I realised it was first published in serial form. This explains why there are so many cliffhangers : ) My lasting memory is of lunatics running around the countryside in their nightwear and lots of kneeling at gravestones (Quite exciting in Victorian times... Not the done thing!). In fact, I should read The Woman in White again too... my memories of it are obviously very sketchy (lol)
Lorna Doone is also good. It's pretty wild. Things happen.
Does anyone else have favourites? I'm sure there are others in the group much better placed to recommend classics than me. I haven't read that many, hence the 4 book challenge I set myself this year.
The woman in white might be a good one for me to try. like the sound of cliffhangers.
Maybe if books were not labeled as "classics" it would be different for some readers. To me, it is simply a method of indicating a time frame for when a book was written.The book titles I threw out at Camilla in the other thread were, all from other labeled genre; fantasy, science fiction, mystery/gothic, adventure. I'm not sure The Last of the Mohicans is really a western. I guess it could be depending on what country one was from. :) The thing is that she had read some classics that she liked!
I just hate to see someone think that they should completely avoid a book just because it is labeled "a classic".
Annerlee wrote: "Joan wrote: "Annerlea, I loved your post, do you have a favorite classic?"Thanks Joan
Favourite...? mmm, difficult. For me, a favourite is a book that I really want to let rest a while before I r..."
Annerlee, I am a big fan of The Woman in White. I also love Wuthering Heights and The Count of Monte Cristo is excellent as well. It's very long (around 1200 pages) but it's got some brilliant characters and things definitely happen in it. It's a revenge tale and also a bit of a swashbuckler.
Cherie wrote: "Maybe if books were not labeled as "classics" it would be different for some readers. To me, it is simply a method of indicating a time frame for when a book was written.The book titles I threw o..."
I think you could be right, Cherie. The "classics" label probably does put some people off reading them because the of the associations that come with that label.
As with all genres, we all have different interpretations of what they might be. Also we know GR is flawed when it comes to genre shelves. I dont pay attention to that. I read a synopsis if it sounds interesting it goes on my wishlist. However, it's more likely to make it on my maybe list instead if it's closer to a 100 years old, whether it's marked a classic or not. It's the style i don't like, not the label.
Just been having a google on The Woman in White and how it was originally published. I found this website http://www.web40571.clarahost.co.uk/w... which has the text available for free in the sections which it was originally published in 40 parts, one released each week. That's 40 weeks to read a book! So I reckon I could commit to the first part at least to give it a go and see what it's like. I was thinking of proposing a buddy read, running to the schedule proposed in the link above. I will go mention it in the buddy read thread now.
@Lisa - It was the more recent adaptation. I think it had Leonardo DiCaprio in it. I might be wrong though. I can't remembe.
Lisa wrote: "Annerlee wrote: "Joan wrote: "Annerlea, I loved your post, do you have a favorite classic?"Thanks Joan
Favourite...? mmm, difficult. For me, a favourite is a book that I really want to let rest a..."
Ok, you made me buy The Woman in White ;-). I just finished Wuthering Heights and I absolutely loved it.
Love your description Annerlee. I actually really love a lot of classics, and probably because we weren't made to read many in school. The ones we did read, I chose to read. So for example, in our school system here in the ACT we choose everyone one of our subjects in Yrs 11 and 12. You don't do English 101, 102, etc. You choose from a list of all subjects offered at your school that semester/trimester from say Creative Writing, Fantasy and Sci Fi, Shakespeare: The Tragedies, 20th Century Lit, Jane Austen, etc. One class myself and 8 friends (guys and girls) took together was Jane Austen. And it was the best way to be introduced to classics. But also, we chose to be there and it helped get over the forced element. And Jane Austen is actually really funny once you get over the classic genre. It's all social commentary of people she doesn't really like. So Pride and Prejudice is the one to read as an intro. I personally love Mansfield Park as the commentary on the slave trade I think is really important.
Otherwise, The Picture of Dorian Gray is to me one of the best intro classics. If you can imagine being at a party with a sarcastic, witty, harsh friend, that is Oscar Wilde to me and I love him.
Dracula I also really enjoyed. How classicy are we going? Pre 20C stuff?
P.S. there is stuff I hate as well. Brontes should only be used as weapons or firewood for example imho.
Ariane wrote: "Ok, you made me buy The Woman in White ;-). I just finished Wuthering Heights and I absolutely loved it ..."Oops... the pressure's on....
Russalka what a great image: 8 high school friends having a good time reading Jane Austen. I imagine you laughed a lot and got a bit goofy.
Cherie wrote: "I just hate to see someone think that they should completely avoid a book just because it is labeled "a classic"."People do that with all genres, not just classics. And authors. I hate to see people dismiss Stephen King because they mistakenly think that he only writes horror. I also hate to see people refuse to try a food because they don't think they'll like it. But, I have to keep telling myself that we all have different tastes, and that some are more willing than others to take risks.
One of my favourite books of all time just happens to be a classic - Rebecca. I also enjoyed The Woman in White, Jane Eyre, and Dracula. I have a few classics coming up, Pride and Prejudice being one. Surprisingly, I don't think I've ever read it.
I think all schools should approach English classes in that way Rusalka. Sounds much more interesting and productive.
I love that idea for school choices, Rusalka. I wish all schools gave more choices. My husband enjoys Jane Austen, so he probably would have loved that class. I homeschooled my younger daughter when she was in high school due to a medical condition. She was allowed to choose from a long list of books as to what interested her. So, for example, she read Frankenstein and then did a compare and contrast with Prodigal Son. That seemed to work out well for her.
She's in her 20s now and last year, she picked up Anna Karenina for fun, so she seems to enjoy the classics more than I do. I tend to pick them up just because they are classics and I "should" read them. I have several of the books listed above still on my TBR.
Rusalka wrote: "Love your description Annerlee. I actually really love a lot of classics, and probably because we weren't made to read many in school. The ones we did read, I chose to read. So for example, in our ..."You feel the same way about Oscar Wilde as I do, Rusalka. I love his dry wit. Also, I am guessing you are not a fan of the Bronte sisters? ;)
Janice wrote: "One of my favourite books of all time just happens to be a classic - Rebecca. I also enjoyed The Woman in White, Jane Eyre, and Dracula. I ha..."
I would be interested in hearing what you think about Pride and Prejudice, Janice. I am not a fan, I think it's overrated. Actually, I don't really get on well with Jane Austen in general. The only one of hers I enjoyed was Northanger Abbey.
I really enjoyed Jane Eyre and Dracula too.
i just picked up Jane Eyre today as an audiobook. It fits a challenge that I'm doing and they had it on CD, so I can listen to it while driving. Have a few others I need to listen to first.
Janice wrote: "Cherie wrote: "I just hate to see someone think that they should completely avoid a book just because it is labeled "a classic"."People do that with all genres, not just classics. And authors. I ..."
Excellent point- I wasn't interested in reading Stephen King until a YLTO buddy read for Different Seasons- like being coaxed across a train trestle. He doesn't make it into my author-pantheon but I'm glad I read it.
It takes me time to get through classics and I always have other fast paced books to go at the same time. That really helps. It took me six months to finish Crime and Punishment but I did enjoy it. One of the classics that i really enjoyed was The Great Gatsby.Great discussion. Fascinating, Annerlea. I need to pick up Dorian Gray and Women in white one if these days. Both I left in the middle few years ago.
Out of interest, has anyone here tackled the monster that is War and Peace? If so, how did you find it?
I made it halfway through Crime and Punishment and gave up, intending to try it again someday. I have never attempted W&P. Travis is the only one I can think of. I think he listened to it and liked it.
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