Romance Writers & Readers discussion
Writing Romance
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Am I the only one?
Moved to writing romance folder!Hmm, I would say that what I write is clean romance, although I would say that the romance element of my romantic suspense series has grown with each new series. But there are no explicit love-making scenes in any of my books. Some there aren't even any veiled love-making scenes, you know like they go to bed and the door closes, kind of thing. Kissing is about as far as it gets. I've been working on a new trilogy and one of the books has an in bed together and the door closes scene but that's my first! No maybe second, I think there might be one other in one of my books.
So for now its me and you on the clean romance no "panty-dropping naughties" list!!
I keep trying to write wholesome, clean romance, and then the pesky characters just keep trying to get into each others' pants!! It's extremely frustrating, especially when it's historical times and sex outside of marriage was frowned upon (at least for the ladies... :-\)I'm hoping my most recent historical is going to have a lovely, kissy, no sex romance - the heroine is feisty but still pure... but we'll see how she goes...
Mod
I read a ton of erotica and typically write explicit scenes too. However, writing a paraplegic hero was a bit different. There was just waaay
Most of my scenes were "fade to black". I actually only had one explicit scene and even that was pretty "classy", at least in my mind hahaha!!
I dunno if I was supposed to answer this question. Oh, well. Hitting "post" now...
^_~
Oh, Groovy, there is no silly question here:)I don't write clean romance, but I also don't think I write panty-dropping naughties. I have love-making scenes, but they are not explicit or anything. I like to be creative and imaginative when writing a scene without using the obvious words for certain anatomy. *smirks* And I never ever say the word that starts with an "F".
At first, it was very strange writing those kinds of scenes, but I have loosened up a bit. I don't think I'll ever loosen up to the point of extreme panty-dropping naughties, though. Haha!
Amanda wrote: "Oh, Groovy, there is no silly question here:)I don't write clean romance, but I also don't think I write panty-dropping naughties. I have love-making scenes, but they are not explicit or anything..."
Don't tell me you go the purple prose Amanda! Anything but that! I read one the other day that didn't even sound like sex:
"D let all her emotions come to the surface. Soul destroying scars from the past fell away and she felt as though she'd crossed into another time zone. J's touch was instinctive, seeking responses from her she hadn't even known existed, touching her deepest senses, sculpting her body from head to toe." BARF.
Give me a good "f" word over that drivel any day. PS: My heroines ask for what they want... they use the "f" word... :-)
You're not the only one.But sorry, I'm a steamy romance gal! My books aren't erotica, but they do contain explicit scenes (*naughty giggles, putting hand over mouth*).
Oh, and being British, we're used to being potty mouthed a bit more too, so there are some naughty swear/cuss words too.
Consider yourself warned ;)
There is no sex in my first 2 fiction books. There's one scene where it starts to get a little steamy, but it ultimately doesn't happen. My WIP on the other hand has a few explicit scenes.
Oh, my dear Bree...*Chuckles* *makes husband pick up barf* Yeah, because I totally can't do that. *smirks*
I actually liked what you quoted. I knew what was going on and it drew me in. Things like that definitely draw me in more than a simple F word tossed in here and there. That just doesn't do it for me. I'll read those books and have no problem with it while I'm reading but I do prefer less vulgarity in my love scenes:)
That's what's wonderful about books. There's one out there for everyone. Yay!
We're all not gonna agree. And that's okay. *smiles*
Mod
And wonderful.
I just felt left out haha!
Thanks for moving that, Amanda. I'll get it right one day.But, I love EVERY LAST one of your answers. I'm glad I'm not alone. You should have seen the picture I had painted in my head. **giggling**
And like Amanda, I like what Bree wrote, too. To me, that's creative without being explicit. But she made me laugh out with the BARF response.
I tried to write scenes between married couples, but there's only so many ways to describe it, and since I write clean, I always say: Readers have good imaginations. Let them use it.
Thanks for the warning, TL and Annie:) When I get finished with my two projects, I plan to read, read, read. I can't wait to read some of the books here. Like Annie said, you're all weird and wonderful.
Oh yes, I unabashedly write pure erotica, but when it comes to reading I enjoy any type of romance. Sometimes reading a book where there's no sex is almost sexier than the sex itself, you know? It all depends on how suspenseful the writer makes it.
Exactly, Marina! You hit the nail right on the head!
As a reader I think as long as you know what to expect from the description it will be fine. Don't label a book mature or erotica and then have no sex in it.
Groovy wrote: "I hope this is the right thread to ask this:
Silly question: How many authors on this forum write wholesome, clean romance? Don't laugh. I've already been doing that, because it seems like I'm th..."
I can't say I write clean romance. I wanted to but when I wrote my first book, I sent it to beta readers and with one exception, all of them asked for sex scenes, at least one. So, I tried hard to write the first sex scene (it took me an entire afternoon). Afterwards, it got easier. I have a somewhat explicit sex scene in every book and a few veiled (they start and a veil falls bla bla bla). I can read sex scenes, even erotica (I reviewed a few) but when it comes to writing.... Considering that the first editing is always done by my daughter... It gets weird
Silly question: How many authors on this forum write wholesome, clean romance? Don't laugh. I've already been doing that, because it seems like I'm th..."
I can't say I write clean romance. I wanted to but when I wrote my first book, I sent it to beta readers and with one exception, all of them asked for sex scenes, at least one. So, I tried hard to write the first sex scene (it took me an entire afternoon). Afterwards, it got easier. I have a somewhat explicit sex scene in every book and a few veiled (they start and a veil falls bla bla bla). I can read sex scenes, even erotica (I reviewed a few) but when it comes to writing.... Considering that the first editing is always done by my daughter... It gets weird
Haha well done Tim.Yeah; write a few steamy novels (different stories) & find new ways of writing sex scenes without them all becoming 'samey'!
There's only so many words for a chao's manhood, for example. ;-)
TL Clark (author of love) wrote: "Haha well done Tim.
Yeah; write a few steamy novels (different stories) & find new ways of writing sex scenes without them all becoming 'samey'!
There's only so many words for a chao's manhood, f..."
Yep, I know what you mean.
Yeah; write a few steamy novels (different stories) & find new ways of writing sex scenes without them all becoming 'samey'!
There's only so many words for a chao's manhood, f..."
Yep, I know what you mean.
I know what you guys mean, too. My first editor is also my daughter. She loves my suspense novels, but is not crazy about my old romance novels with the married ones. She said she just doesn't want to read about two people getting it on from her mother.But like TL stated, there's just so many ways and words to describe it. I remember when I used to read the old Harlequin novels where lovemaking was inferred. To me, that was more exciting than having it described to me. As long as there were passion and kissing, that was enough for me.
And that's one of the reasons I prefer to infer. (I rhythmed:)
Tim wrote: "Inference is effective. Offer me a glimpse of suspender and stockings and I will turn the page and you can have me turning pages forever... :D But when faced with a scene written in first person wh..."
You do have a point.
You do have a point.
Tim wrote: "As an author you either write it and keep going or you chicken out. For me, to chicken out is to short change the reader"Hiya, Tim
Okeydokey, well I have to disagree with you on that as both a writer and a reader. Disagree all friendly like of course, and actually if we were in the same room right now I would have a lot of fun debating this with you, cos, yeah, I totally LOVE to debate stuff!
But anyways . . .
1. As a writer I do not at all feel like I have "chickened out" by not including explicit love-making scenes in my books. Not one teeny tiny bit! They aren't a part of my story so they're not there. It's as simple as that. It has nothing to do with being a chicken or not. When I write I try to tell a good suspenseful crime story combined with a romance that brings about strong character development. Anything else doesn't add to the story. So yes in some of my books the characters make love but it is behind closed doors, and I have never had a reader tell me they thought my books were lacking because there was no explicit love-making.
2. As a reader I am not looking for explicit love-making scenes in the books I read. In fact if a book has them and I don't feel like it adds to the story then I get annoyed. Yes a lot of the books that I read and own have explicit love-making in them, but those scenes are not my favourites in the book and I would still love the book if they weren't there, but having them there doesn't put me off. I want to read a well told story with strong characters who grow and develop. Love-making scenes are the scenes I typically just skim through and I'm more than happy to be called uptight or a prude or anything else someone may call me for not really liking them!
So as a writer I don't feel like I'm a chicken for not writing explicit scenes and as a reader I don't feel short-changed if books I read don't contain them, it is all about personal preference, which is kinda why books are so awesome, what I love someone else may hate, and what I hate someone else may love!
Mod
Having read my book (not naming it cuz I ain't no bookwhacker haha), you know that I wrote mostly "fade-to-black" AND have only one explicit sex scene. Even that one was pretty mild, imho.
My reasons for this are twofold. One, I write whatever the heck I'm in the mood to write and two, I wanted to focus on portraying disability outside of the bedroom too.
Do you feel I "chickened out" in making these decisions?
I like this convo!
Hugs,
Ann
I'll have to agree with Princess Jane on this one. Wonderfully said and I agree. I don't feel it's chickening out or short changing the readers. Every reader is different. Every author is different. That's what makes reading and writing so great. There's something out there for everyone:)I enjoy reading both kinds, except I'm not always a fan of the completely explicit, although, I already kinda talked about that, so I'll just....fade to black... *chuckles*
I, too, disagree with you, Tim. Like it has already been stated, I don't feel as if I "chickened" out, either, because I don't write those scenes. I think it takes a very creative author to write a romantic or romantic/suspense story that keeps the readers' attention without explicit sex. Again, each author is different. But just because I don't wish to write explicit scenes in my romance novels, but instead infer, doesn't make me a chicken.
A few days ago, I received an email from GR that showed me that a reader just added me to her list of favorite authors. I write clean romance, and she loves to read my books. So, it's safe to say she doesn't feel short changed. Nor do any of the other readers who enjoy my books, or Jane's readers, or Annie's and Amanda's readers.
As a reader, I would never read erotica. I love every last girl on this thread, clean authors and erotic ones, but I don't like erotic material--my choice. And I am so glad readers and authors have different tastes, don't you? Am I a prude or uptight? If you asked my daughter or a few of my friends, they would blush like crazy and quickly shout, "Are you kidding? Groovy?"
But I AM a clean writer--And very proud of it!
Mod
*flicks on night light*
I gotchu ^_~
@Miss Groovy: Well said, ma'am. Well freakin' said.
While I DO read some pretty hardcore erotica, I actually enjoy the challenge of NOT writing it sometimes.
For me, this is a conscious decision vs. "chickening out", which seems to suggest an involuntary rxn to some negative emotion (fear or unease, perhaps?). It implies I want to write explicit content but can't bring myself to do it or something? And this is simply not the case. I just like to bring readers to the edge and leaving em a little hot and bothered, that's all. Cuz I'm an evil person...
*smirks*
Group hugs romance-y weirdos across the entire spectrum of sexy time,
Ann
Hmmm...are we reading too much into the phrase "chicken out"? I didn't read it as harshly.
I took it more, you either write it or not.
I'm almost halfway through my vampire book and there's nothing overly explicit...yet. ;P
I think it would be a disappointment in this genre not to get down and dirty eventually though.
But there's enough readers of both out there.
Some like the inferred (which indeed can be very sexy)
And some like the full nitty gritty (which can also be sexy)
Get either wrong and it turns into a drizzly weekend. They both take skill.
Different strokes for different folks.
OK. Shake hands. Group hug.
xx
Haha; takes a Brit to understand a Brit? It's funny how some of the things we say as part of our everyday language suddenly become something different to other lands.
I've fallen into that trap many a time on GR particularly.
I remember saying something was amazing to my American relative. She gasped like I'd made a massive statement.
I kinda just meant really good. But to her it was 'dazzlingly brilliant like the stars'. :-/
Tee hee; I even got told off by one reviewer for having my characters "eat tea". They thought I meant drink. No, I meant they ate supper (tea).
I love languages :)
I think this discussion turns on what you consider to be a 'love story' and what you consider to be 'romantic fiction'. And it comes down to people's personal tastes.
When I think of 'romantic fiction', I don't always think the romance has to lead to sex. I like romance to start off very sweet, moving into the more sultry stuff once the romance has been established.
But there are others for whom romance isn't romance without a good bit o' banging. And I'm cool with that.
And a love story is a completely different beast altogether.
Haha, TL. A good debate is what it is. I don't believe anyone took anything harshly. Some of us happened to disagree with a statement and chose to explain our opinions on the matter. That's all:)No one is ever gonna agree and sometimes the written word can be misconstrued because you're not actually speaking to a person face to face. (And even then, I'm sure people misinterpret.)
I think everyone's just sharing their opinion. *smiles* Which is what places like these are about.
*hands out some donuts* Breakfast time here!
I believe that's the general term used, Tim.'Clean' = no explicit scenes.
It is a bit odd to my ears, but is generally accepted.
Besides, my characters can get dirty. Very very dirty! ;-p
It's even weirder when you widen that scope out to the world;
There are many horrificially violent images shown on TV but if you share some naked flesh or the act of love making you get people up in arms over it.
But that's getting way too political, so I'll leave it at that.
We're a lovely group, so will keep it happy.
Unicorns!! <~'
Mod
LOL
I was totally coming back to say this. For reals. Annnd thanks for keeping it respectful, Miss TL. Deleting stuff sucks bollocks ^_~
Tim wrote: "The one sex scene was tame and I was intrigued to know how they were having successful and satisfying sex. I have a friend who's paraplegic and we have discussed the problems in the bedroom many times - the truth is sex is difficult as he can't do intercourse."
1) Intrigued is EXACTLY where I want my readers...
*smirks*
2) The majority of people don't have paraplegic friends in real life, so they won't even know what a transfer or pressure release is, much less what the heck goes on in the bedroom, ya know? There are few books that start and end with an SCI character. Most end up miraculously healed (Fighting Shadows), and even if they're not, the "mundane" details are often glossed over (Embattled Hearts) or they end up dying (Me Before You), eh?
3) There are at least 3 more books in the series. Practice some patience, good sir. Can't give everything away in the first book, now can I?
*smiles innocently*
4) Actually, paraplegics CAN have intercourse. My incomplete T12 buddy (who's actually a Brit too haha) has feeling down to his knees and control of his hips. A T8 war vet I talk to has gotten really creative and done some serious balancing acts LMAO! We obviously won't go into details but yeah, they totally can. Just depends on injury level and a little extra "help".
Unicorns are awesome,
Ann
P.S. - 'Clean' romance is a legit subcategory, Mr Tim. No one's implying anything's dirty. Although, I AM a fan of dirty. Tee hee.
EDIT: Explicit content removed. Wasn't thinking. Oops, sorry!
EDIT #2: And thank you sooo much for the kind words! Totally rude of me not to say so!! Sorry more!!
What I meant, Tim, is exactly the way Annie and T.L. described it: Clean, meaning a legit subcategory without explicit sex scenes, and if there is lovemaking, it's between married couples only, no one-night stands. Harlequins and Silhouette has ruled this category for eons, I didn't just make that up.
I don't understand what you mean that I think writing explicit sex is dirty because some on here describes it as dirty sex. I'm not implying anything. All I said was, I don't read or write erotica. I meant no disrespect to anyone who does. I would never do that.
I am so glad I asked this question. Look at all the helpful POV's. And please believe me, Tim, I thoroughly enjoy talking about this. No hard feelings, I hope. Thank you, everyone, for your input.
You're right, Amanda, there are no silly questions **laughing**
Mod
My answer: https://www.anniearcane.com/there-was...
(EDIT: Nobody else click on that! It's just my Flash Fiction entry from last week hahaha!)
But, actually, you're totally right about how far I push my heroes. They're definitely the cream-of-the-crop when it comes to disabled men (in terms of being well-adjusted, I mean!). I'll admit most in real life have not reached this level of acceptance.
I'm just not personally interested in writing insecure beta heroes, so I always write really strong alphas. Not to say they don't have insecurities cuz they absolutely do (probably more than betas). They're just too stubborn to show it...
*smirks all sneaky-like*
Just FYI, 99.9% of paras have to cath. Even the ones that walk like an Egyptian ^_~
Hugs,
Ann
P.S. - Ehhh, I dunno how I got so sidetracked, Miss Groovy! Sorry for derailing!!
Mistress Annie, whatever you write here, fits! Speak, my sista, speak!Tim, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Sex is not dirty, it's a beautiful act. I grew up in the free-love age, but in a household where it was cause for punishment to even ask a question about it. But that didn't determine my choice of writing genre.
Like you, I love sex, ( I love romance more though) and I raised my daughter to have a healthful, natural view of it. I didn't want her to grow up in the restrictive atmosphere I had to. You should sit in on our passionate discussions. She finally says, "I don't want to hear that from my mother! I'm out of here!"
But I would like to add that I also raised her to view it as something special. I don't believe in one-night stands, or sleeping around with multiple partners. It's something special between two people who are committed to one another. But that's me!
I think back in the day, dirty sex meant disgusting, you shouldn't talk about it, if you did, you had a dirty mind, go to church--but today doesn't it mean two people really getting it on, or reading about two people having a lot of lustful fun in the bedroom?? Right?
Hey Tim,Yeah, I too write explicit sex scenes, partly due to the stigma that had become attached to it.
And because the world seems to still see the, "no sex please, we're British" sign.
So, my characters have at least one foot in Britain. Especially my BDSM offering; it was really important to me that us Brits started taking off our uptight robes a bit. ;)
My girls are generally good, and don't have one night stands. When they do it's to demonstrate the difference, and the importance of being in a relationship.
I know it's cliched but it really is so much better with a long term partner :)
Yay; love all round xx
This was a heat-o-meter someone put up recently - not sure exactly where it came from, but it made sense to me:Clean--no swearing, no sex (g or pg). Best to have no sex or there is "implied" sex but no sex scenes in the book. Can have kissing and touching but that's it. Must have a HEA/marriage.
Sweet-- May have sex but bedroom door is closed. Basically, he'll carry her to bedroom, door closes and then the next scene is the following day. Has a HEA/marriage. No swearing. Is an emotional read.
Sexy- I'd put sexy and steamy together. There are love making scenes where the couple have come to a point in their relationship where they're taking it one step further. Bedroom door is open but it's love making not f**king. No C or D words and no swearing. Must have a HEA/ marriage.
Steamy- see above :)
Hot or sizzling--Sex scene is hotter than sexy/steamy with some swearing (F word) and his manly bits are c**k rather than his "hard length" (that's more sexy/steamy). Must have a HEA/ HFN.
Erotic romance--The sex scenes are steamy and they are having sex before the relationship has developed. Lots of C, D and F words. Vaginal, oral and anal sex. Should end with a HEA or happily for now (HFN)
Erotica--sex scenes more important than story. Yep. Lots of sex, doesn't need a HEA.
According to this, I write hot. Go figure.
Oh cool! I'm hot/sizzling!! And there I am dubbing myself steamy. What a disservice!? ;-p
Yay for learning :) Yeah, you have to roam around the romance halls and try opening a few doors before you find the perfect one sometimes.
Wow, I didn't know there was a difference between steamy, hot or sizzling, erotic romance, and erotica. What??? You learn something new everyday. I fit the first two categories--surprise!But I also think I write love stories, too.
Groovy wrote: "I hope this is the right thread to ask this: Silly question: How many authors on this forum write wholesome, clean romance? Don't laugh. I've already been doing that, because it seems like I'm th..."
Hi Groovy, I'm Cece :) I too write clean wholesome romance and was hoping to find other authors on here who do the same. You're definitely not the only one and if you ever want to swap stories I'd be happy to read yours and show you mine :)
Hi, CeCeI left you a welcome message:) As soon as I am finished with two projects that I'm working on, I plan to read--A LOT. And I will definitely check your books out. We can swap read, but not swap review, cuz that's one of Mistress Annie's rules, (see box at right)
I should tell you that in my earlier romances, the married couples made love (I wrote them so tame, a three year old could read it and go--ehhh!!:) But now, I no longer do that.
I'm not a Christian writer though. And I've never heard of chaste romance before, but I like the sound.
Bree wrote: "This was a heat-o-meter someone put up recently - not sure exactly where it came from, but it made sense to me:Clean--no swearing, no sex (g or pg). Best to have no sex or there is "implied" sex ..."
Wow, that's definitely a new one for me! Though I've always wondered why some stories fit better with a HEA ora HFN, or none at all. It's interesting to read this definition :)
I like reading and writing medium nasties rather than erotica.So by the heat o- meter above I'd be sexy most of the time but usually one heat scene. Sometimes the characters are married but mostly not. But sometimes I fade to black to avoid too much sex, it can be overdone. If it is all sex it's boring to me. My sex scenes are descriptive but dirty words are minimal. I don't object to clean I just like the semi nasty bits...fan of Lisa Kleypas...if that helps.
This has been a very confusing thread for me. I always thought that sex was just sex. That romance was not just sex. That love making was romance that sometimes including sex. I want my characters to make love. I have struggle with how to insure that the physical act of sex is immersed within an expression of intense emotional connection. In thinking about that, words that start with “F” can carry an emotional message. Somehow using explicit language seemed like to much of a short cut to lust. I have not figured it out yet. I also felt a little embarrassed when trying to get what I wanted on paper. I feel a reflection when I write something. That I am somehow confessing a secret about myself coded within the words and images. That the person that reads what I have written will discover something about me that I don't want to disclose. Then I get over myself and write the damn thing.
I hear you, Will. Sometimes we equate romance with sex, and they're not the same. I have to remind myself of that at times. I say romance leads to sex sometimes. That's an interesting point about how writing the scenes down may reflect on who you are. I never thought of that.But as I mentioned earlier, I choose not to write sex scenes anymore, because to me, as a wholesome romance writer, my stories are more about the heart, not below the belt. And as I always said: readers have imaginations, let them use it:) I feel it's better if I can imagine the scene rather than it being described to me--but that's me!
Nothing wrong with clean romance. One of my favourite authors is Sophie Kinsella and I've never seen a sex scene in any of her books. Let's not forget she is a best seller with her shopaholic books.
Gem--may I first say that I love your name because it reminds me of the dolls that were popular back in the 80's--Jem and the Holograms (I don't know if you remember that, you might be too young) But I was grown by then and it was my favorite cartoon show. I actually loved their adversaries, the Misfits better-(it's so me) LOL!But, I've heard of Kinsella, and I didn't know she was a clean writer. I'm going to check out her books. Thanks for that.
Groovy - Thank you. In the 80's I was only a baby so don't remember them. My pen name is just what my husband calls me. I'm his Gemstone lol.I highly recommend Sophie Kinsella's "Can You Keep A Secret?" It's my favourite and I think the closest she ever gets to a sex scene. It stops on a kiss and then skips to the next day. The book is hysterical and guaranteed to make you laugh out loud.
Gem, my heart melted in a puddle of goo. Your husband sounds awesome! Love the nickname he gave you:) *smiles with little hearts in my eyes*
Amanda wrote: "Gem, my heart melted in a puddle of goo. Your husband sounds awesome! Love the nickname he gave you:) *smiles with little hearts in my eyes*"I'd tell him you said that but his heads too big already lol
Wow, according to the heat-o-meter I'm pretty high-temp. And at least one of my stories doesn't fit anywhere, hehe. :)When I'm writing, I treat sex scenes like I treat any other scene. If it doesn't further the plot, reveal the characters more fully or both (preferably both) it's either implied (the same way a long boring journey that's necessary to the plot might be condensed into a paragraph) or I skip it. I like to throw in implied scenes here and there to show that while yes, the characters are hot for each other and doing a healthy amount of boinking, the reader doesn't need the details every single time. Repetitive sex scenes are boring for me, and don't think I'm alone there.
As to how explicit/raunchy the scene gets, I ask myself two questions;
1: Why are these two people having sex? If they're doing it to express feelings, I stick with the feelings and imply the physical details. On the other hand, if the parties involved are really looking to do the (BLEEP!)ing (CENSORED) (RADIO EDIT) to each other, yeah...I'm not afraid to bring the raunch. ;)
2: How comfortable is the character with their sexuality? If they are shy, prudish or not yet comfortable in general, I skip the physical details and focus more on sensations and emotions even if the scene is more lust-driven - I just go for different feels. If they're totally comfortable with their sexual selves (at least one of my female characters has been like this), the scene is more "naughty" than "nice".
My reason; I figure someone with hang-ups would "shy away" from thinking about the anatomical details and focus more on sensation. Just my theory really.
It should be noted that I always write from first-person and so far always from the female perspective, so how the character would look at the scene and what details their mind would pay attention to are my primary concern.
Finally, since I do a lot of writing from the female perspective, I've assembled a "panel of experts"; a group of women of varying ages and viewpoints on sex who are willing to read the scene and give me a thumbs-up/thumbs down on accuracy. I don't want to commit any sex-ed/biology fails, doncha know. :D
Romance Writers & Readers
Books mentioned in this topic
Fighting Shadows (other topics)Embattled Hearts (other topics)
Me Before You (other topics)
Silly question: How many authors on this forum write wholesome, clean romance? Don't laugh. I've already been doing that, because it seems like I'm the only one, while the rest of you write "panty-dropping naughties?"--is that how you put it?
I haven't had time to read up on each one of you, but I'd like to know now.
**I must stop laughing**