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What makes a character "strong"
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Mod
Personally, I dig heroines who are (super) flawed but know their worth and don't take any (view spoiler) from their men. I love me an alpha male and a ballsy woman who can handle him like a boss. The dude should earn his keep and his nookie too...
Just like in real life ^_~
Hugsss,
Ann
Annie wrote: "Oooh, Princess Jane! Stupendously amazeballs question!!Personally, I dig heroines who are (super) flawed but know their worth and don't take any [spoilers removed] from their men. I love me an al..."
I like that about the heroine knowing her worth! Great point! I also think that you can be strong and not even realise it. In my first series my female main character went through a ton of crazy stuff as a kid and it made her super stubborn, a total control freak, and left her not really trusting people, but she got up every day, lived her life, and would do anything, including risk her own life, for people she cared about. She carried around a lot of guilt and wouldn't have described herself as strong, but I felt like she was strong in her own way even if she did kind of live in denial.
Mod
Dig. It.
Annie wrote: "Yesss! I like when heroines (and characters in general) are unorthodox. Smart, sexy, and strong in an unexpected way, ya know?Dig. It."
Totally!
I am super OBSESSED with character motivation, I love how our past makes us who we are, both the good and the not so good, so when people talk about seeing certain characters as weak I am always so interested to find out why they seem them as such. And so much of how we describe characters is subjective, like even smart, we can all have totally different opinions of what a smart decision would be in different circumstances. Anyways I could so ramble on and on about this topic because it just fascinates me but I will stop myself before I bore everyone!
Mod
And I totally agree about motivation. If I can believe it, I can dig it, ya know?
I actually love to hate characters. If their flaws drive me crazy and I wanna strangle them, but it makes perfect sense and I wanna hug em at the same time...
*content smile*
That's the sweet spot.
Annie wrote: "Pfft! You came up with the thread, ma'am! I reckon you can't bore anyone haha!!And I totally agree about motivation. If I can believe it, I can dig it, ya know?
I actually love to hate character..."
Okay, I probably won't bore anyone but I probably will get carried away and babble on and on and on . . .
I don't even care if characters do stupid things so long as they fit in with their history and motivations, I will literally forgive even the stupidest things so long as it is consistent with their character! I just love it when a character seems real enough to get me invested, whether I love them or hate them!
I think what makes a female character strong is not always needing other people to rescue her from everything. If she at least shows she has the capability to handle her own shi-stuff, she's strong in my book. But with that being said, I think everyone can use some help once in a while, and sometimes being able to ask for help when needed is also a sign of strength.
Nicole wrote: "I think what makes a female character strong is not always needing other people to rescue her from everything. If she at least shows she has the capability to handle her own shi-stuff, she's stron..."Totally true, Nicole! I have heard people criticise female characters in crime related books for needing to be rescued, particularly in kidnap stories, but realistically how many people who are kidnapped save themselves? But in all other types of situations I totally like all my characters to be able to work out things for themselves, or ask for help just like you mentioned!
I like a woman who can stand up to a man. I find that strong. Sometimes I can get so frustrated when reading a book and a woman just obediently obeys what a man says. I like when she can toss back some words and let him know that that sh** isn't gonna fly.I like a woman who knows who she is and knows her weaknesses, whatever they may be. And even makes that man work to forgiveness instead of just giving in with one simple apology. Sometimes you need to show how sorry you are and not just with words.
Maybe sometimes people say "weak" when the woman whines too much. Or maybe that's just a pet peeve of mine. I'm not always a fan of a whiny woman in a book.
Gosh, what a great question. I always try to portray my woman as "strong", or maybe independent is a better word. And like Nicole said, not always needing other people to help, but sometimes asking for help is being strong. I had one character who was very strong, independent, in charge of everything in her life. One tragic incident sent her into a downward spiral. People had to force her to wake up and get her sh** together. Slowly, her strength came back.
Gonna stop now....next turn!
Amanda wrote: "I like a woman who can stand up to a man. I find that strong. Sometimes I can get so frustrated when reading a book and a woman just obediently obeys what a man says. I like when she can toss back ..."Great thoughts, Queen Amanda! I particularly like the bit about standing up for yourself!
Does anyone ever worry about making sure their male characters are strong, or is the weak vs strong thing something we only think about with our female characters?
I think it's okay to have weakness in a man. We all have it. Shows a little vulnerability which I think can be sexy if portrayed in a beautiful way.
Mod
[insert maniacal laugh here]
I'm a jerk. Tee hee.
I never hear people talk about weak male characters only females characters, personally when I write characters I don't think of them in terms of weak or strong, I just give them some horrible backstory and then think how would that influence the kind of person they are, I like them to be weak in some areas and strong in others, just like real people Mistress Ann, thats not as mean as I was to the female main character in my original series. I love soap operas and kind of wanted to do a melodramatic kind of series, so I totally heaped on the bad stuff to her! I was totally, terribly, awfully mean to her!!
Mod
*fist bumps*
Hey, I would've made Cale a higher paraplegic or maybe even a quad (nah, probably not) but I love abs too much. Sooo his injury level was based on that LMAO!!
I'm laughing but 100% serious.
MUHAHAHAAAA!!!
Annie wrote: "I dig your wicked style, Princess Jane...*fist bumps*
Hey, I would've made Cale a higher paraplegic or maybe even a quad (nah, probably not) but I love abs too much. Sooo his injury level was ba..."
You're funny!
Mod
Aww, thanks, Princess Jane!! Tee hee.
To me, if they are strong on the inside, that's all that matters, even if they are disabled in some way. They can still take care of themselves, and think for themselves.My female characters are always independent-minded, smart, but kind women. They come to the rescue, or solve all the issues in my suspense and romantic/suspense novels. They're not perfect, though; they have to claw their way out sometimes. But the point is, they don't need a man to tell them when, how, or get to it. And the men? They're strong but not dominating; the heroes must always respect the women.
I know this may be harsh, but I cannot tolerate a weak woman or a weak man, and that will never be a trait of one of my characters. I grew up in a very tough environment, but learned from the example of my strong grandmother, my first love.
Mod
Awesomeness.
That is all.
I think of Strength score of 16 or more would make a strong character for me. Once you get into the (+3)s for your modifier it really makes a difference!
Mod
*appears in RPG*
*shrugs*
Kelly wrote: "To me, I think "strong" is just a character who is "whole" as in they have a full personality. Strengths, weaknesses, confidence, and some ability ti handle themselves."Love that answer, Kelly!! (ɔ◔‿◔)ɔ ♥
Kelly wrote: "To me, I think "strong" is just a character who is "whole" as in they have a full personality. Strengths, weaknesses, confidence, and some ability ti handle themselves."YES. OMG YES.
I couldn't agree with this more. One of my favourite examples is Liv from Scandal. She's headstrong, determined, works hard, but is also vulnerable, erratic, and unreliable. She's a realistic portrayal of a person, and for me, that's what all characters should strive to be, female or male.
Kristina wrote: "She's headstrong, determined, works hard, but is also vulnerable, erratic, and unreliable. She's a realistic portrayal of a person, and for me, that's what all characters should strive to be, female or male."Love this!! Totally how I feel! We all have our strengths and weaknesses and together they make us who we are!
Tim wrote: "Believability is everything."Definitely!!
The OP asks a great question, and one which is quite relevant in the modern landscape of fiction. Media inclusiveness is something I've been a champion of for a while now for a variety of reasons, and one of the fundamentals of it is "strong characters" who are from underrepresented groups. I've noodled on this concept a while; what does make a character "strong"? (Note: this will be a fairly long post. If you were thinking of grabbing a beverage or taking a bathroom break, now would be a good time.)
Here's the most inclusive definition/analytical tool I've been able to come up with: The Hero's Platform.
It can be fairly said that a hero (or a villain for that matter) "stands taller" than the other characters. As for what they stand on, picture a four-legged stool. This the "platform" that the character stands on, the one which makes them "taller" (e.g. cooler) than everyone else.
Now, I'm sure everyone reading this has at some point in their life had to deal with a rickety table, chair or stool - you know, one with a leg or two that's shorter than the rest. They're annoying. They're unstable. And I can tell you as a carpenter that they are also more fragile than a stable table/chair/stool, because the unequal legs create unequal stresses. In other words, they break faster and easier.
As I said, the "Hero's Platform" is a four-legged stool. Here are the four legs - the concepts which make a hero or villain stand above others.
Agency: Agency is defined by how much the character's actions and choices affect the story. Are they driving the plot, or is the plot driving them? Do they make things happen, or do they just let them happen? We generally want to read about the active agent in a story, not someone who is just "along for the ride".
Integrity: Integrity is defined by the cultivation of a set of principles - and the adherence to said principles under the temptation to do otherwise. Strong characters have integrity; if they think a behavior is wrong, they won't do it even when not doing it might be inconvenient (or even dangerous) for them, even if nobody's looking, even if others encourage them to do it. Integrity is also a measure of how "self-contained" a character is. Do they let others push them about and define their beliefs, or do they let such attempts just bounce off them with a shrug and a "that's your opinion"?
As an aside, this is a big reason why we sometimes root for the bad guy. We might not approve of his code of ethics, but we can admire him if he/she sticks to it even under duress and/or having zero f**ks to give when people try and judge them. The best antagonists usually have this going for them.
Anyhow, these two concepts are balanced by two other concepts:
Interactivity: This is tough to explain concisely. It is mostly the opposite of Agency. If agency is how much effect the character has on the situation, Interactivity is how much effect the consequences of their actions and choices affect them. Does the world force them to own their mistakes, or does the story let them off in the form of lucky occurrences which give them what they were after anyway? If they sin, do they suffer?
Growth: Much as Interactivity is the opposite of Agency, Growth is the balancing point for Integrity. Sure, we want a character to show a little backbone, but we also want them to re-examine their beliefs if the story gives them a good cause to. We want them to learn lessons and not repeat mistakes. You know, like real people try to.
Note: a lack of interactivity and growth is the primary failing of a "Mary Sue" type character. Sure, Mary Sues (and Gary Stus) have butt-tons of agency and integrity (they drive the story by their actions and never compromise on their principles), but too much of that is unbelievable. Mary Sues never have to learn a lesson - because they're always right. They don't have to grow - because they're already perfect. They stand really tall...but its on a platform so tippy the slightest "push" (i.e. attempt at critical analysis) sends them crashing down.
The more a writer balances these four concepts while communicating them clearly to the reader, the taller the character stands - and the more we as readers can empathize and relate to them. The more we can imagine ourselves doing what they do.
Anyhow, that's my definition of what makes a character "strong". They exist in three dimensions, and act as real people act - they just do it better than most of us can on our best days.
*glances back over post*
Wow, this became one heck of a rant. Hope nobody fell asleep! :D
Mod
Thanks for the insight, good sir! ^_~
Eric wrote: "The OP asks a great question, and one which is quite relevant in the modern landscape of fiction. Media inclusiveness is something I've been a champion of for a while now for a variety of reasons, ..."What an awesome and super detailed answer, Eric! I totally enjoyed reading it!!
Eric wrote: "The OP asks a great question, and one which is quite relevant in the modern landscape of fiction. Media inclusiveness is something I've been a champion of for a while now for a variety of reasons, ..."Eric, you made me laugh in the beginning. I didn't refill my water, and *chuckles* it wasn't that long for me to do that. Great insight. I loved how you broke it all down. My favorite was about the stool/chair/table and how they're stable and unstable. Totally made so much sense to me:)
@Annie: You're welcome! And yeah, I spend a lot of time thinking about this stuff. Probably more than I should, lol. :D@Jane: Thanks! Hope it helps answer some of your questions. You are right...people toss terms like "weak" and "strong" around but don't really think about what they mean, what the difference between the two is. I think there ought to be more discussion about what those terms mean before people just throw a label on a character.
@Amanda: Glad to hear it. It took me a bit to come up with the proper metaphor to explain my thoughts, glad that one made sense. I'm a writer but I come from a family of carpenters, engineers and lawyers, so I tend to think about writing in those terms. It throws a lot of people off, lol. :D
What started my analysis of feminine characters would likely surprise most. When I was a young lad the film Terminator 2 was a huge box-office hit (I was 13 at the time, I'm 37 now) and a great many people praised Linda Hamilton's role as Sarah Connor. I recall reading an article in I thiiiiink it was newsweek which dissented from that opinion. It was critical of how the character was written; what interested me at the time was how the author was a woman. Note: most of the girls I knew thought Connor was kick-ass and awesome, and they wanted to be her. Even 13-year-old me was intrigued by a woman saying "no, she's not that cool".
The quote from the article which stuck with me and has stayed stuck for almost twenty years was this:
"Hollywood needs to figure out how to beef up women's roles in film without turning them into beefcake."
I spent the next two decades pondering the question of what makes a 'strong' female character. I know, its a weird thing for a guy to obsess about. ;)
I often read things about people saying that they don't like "weak" female characters in books, and I always wonder what they mean when they say "weak". What characteristics make a character weak? What makes them strong? I feel like these can be subjective terms that we all bring a different understanding to. For me a strong character is one who doesn't give up, however they deal with life and trauma and tough stuff they get up each morning and persevere.
What characteristics make a character "strong" for you girlies?