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Friday's Child
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Friday's Child Group Read September 2016 Chapters 1-12
What kinds of trousers did men wear? When did they wear one kind or another? (I always thought pantaloons, trousers, pants, etc, were synonyms).‘Well, I won’t!’ Sherry returned. ‘I’m going to Almack’s.’
Mr Ringwood groped for his quizzing-glass, and through it scrutinised his friend’s person. He let it fall again and lay back in his chair. ‘Not in pantaloons,’ he said. ‘Can’t be done, Sherry.’
I don't personally care for sex scenes in my romances. But I still find it odd when Sherry leaves his wife at her bedroom and heads to his. Sure, different people have different sexual drives, but this book seems awfully extreme.
Howard wrote: "What kinds of trousers did men wear? When did they wear one kind or another? (I always thought pantaloons, trousers, pants, etc, were synonyms).‘Well, I won’t!’ Sherry returned. ‘I’m going to Alm..."
Also - what' s Benjamin?
Howard: men had to wear breeches to Almack's. (Silk knee pants.) That was still formal wear, as it had been all through the eighteenth century. A Benjamin is a coat.Sherry left her at the bedroom door because he knew she was still too young, and had no idea what marriage meant. This is a clue to the reader that he's basically a good guy, in spite of all his selfish actions.
Sherwood wrote: "Howard: men had to wear breeches to Almack's. (Silk knee pants.) That was still formal wear, as it had been all through the eighteenth century. A Benjamin is a coat.Sherry left her at the bedroom..."
I think it also reflects that he still sees her as the adoring little "brat" who followed him around throughout his boyhood, taking part in whatever silly hijinx he wanted to get up to...and took the blame for it, often as not, as Hero notes when she refers to the time she had a hard-to-explain red mark on her cheek from when Sherry cuffed her when their stunt backfired (Sherry was appalled at the memory, but still...)
He wasn't appalled enough not to slap her a couple more times early in the book, but I noted on this read that he stops that as his feelings gradually begin to change.
Sherry left her at the bedroom door because he knew she was still too young, and had no idea what marriage meant. This is a clue to the reader that he's basically a good guy, in spite of all his selfish actions. "So your take is that the marriage wasn't consummated?
Sherwood wrote: Sherry left her at the bedroom door because he knew she was still too young, and had no idea what marriage meant.I particularly noticed, this reading, Sherry's line when he first encounters Hero about her having no more idea what marriage means "than that sparrow." Then he amends, "In fact, much less." IIRC, sparrows were considered quite lusty birds, so I suspect that's a veiled reference to Hero not really being ready for sex, and Sherry knowing that.
Howard wrote: "Sherry left her at the bedroom door because he knew she was still too young, and had no idea what marriage meant. This is a clue to the reader that he's basically a good guy, in spite of all his se..."I don't think so. Heyer was pretty good at conveying when the couples were going beyond the bedroom door through little cues, and here, the little cues are that Sherry and Hero wait to fall in love first.
The first part of their marriage, they are basically in their old pattern, with her trotting along behind him, except when she ventured on her own and got into trouble, after following his careless suggestions. Their honeymoon is spent "in committee" with Hero more or less treated like one of the boys.
When they go to Vauxhall, it's very much Sherry and his old pal Hero, while he's flirting with Flyaway Nancy. He does come back and face punch the guy harassing Hero, but then they settle right back into their old relationship--no hint of romance between them.
Not until the end, when Sherry sees that she really has grown up. That last conversation, when she lights up at the idea of a baby, and for the very first time, Sherry shuts down "discussion in committee". I find that a crackup!
@Howard, yes, I'm pretty sure the marriage wasn't consummated till after the close of the book. After all, Sherry isn't marrying Hero because he wants a sexual outlet (he already has those) or because he wants to set up his nursery, as the saying goes. He wants to get his hands on his inheritance and to be able to toss his Uncle Horace out on his fat rear.
Sherwood wrote: "He wasn't appalled enough not to slap her a couple more times early in the book, but I noted on this read that he stops that as his feelings gradually begin to change."Exactly! That's what clued me in there was no consummation, he's still treating her like a little nuisance - and hits her a few times accordingly.
I agree, he has no interest in Hero at all, except as a friend whom he does want to help. It's to both their advantage that they marry, but he doesn't want her as a wife.
I still find it odd when Sherry leaves his wife at her bedroom and heads to his. Sure, different people have different sexual drives, but ..."Howard, I'm with you on this. That was exactly what bothered me. There are many good and believable reasons why Sherry might have acted this way but none really fit the plot.
Or maybe we are all being too 21st century about this book....If he grew up with her perhaps he thought about her as a sister or close cousin. Maybe that was enough to make her off limits. Still...it just doesn't fit with his character as it develops in the novel, nor with the ending.
Hana wrote: "Or maybe we are all being too 21st century about this book....If he grew up with her perhaps he thought about her as a sister or close cousin. Maybe that was enough to make her off limits. Still......"I think you're right, he sees her like an annoying little sister, to be coddled and rescued and kept out of trouble, not an object of desire.
I do not think Sherry desires her at all, she is probably so different from all the women that he has been involved with as yet.
Hana wrote: " I still find it odd when Sherry leaves his wife at her bedroom and heads to his. Sure, different people have different sexual drives, but ..."Howard, I'm with you on this. That was exactly what ..."
His marriage could be annulled if it is not consummated. And a judge could claim it was a fiction designed to get around the will.
Creating heirs was important.
Didn't Sherry tell her something about him not forcing his attentions on her before she agreed to marry him? If I'm remembering that correctly that he might have thought that he would be breaking his end of the deal by being a typical bridegroom on wedding night. As for the heirs I think we are supposed to see Sherry as basically a thoughtless overgrown teenage boy in the beginning - he wouldn't have had any thought to heirs or continuing the family line. He just wanted his money.
Oh yes. But if they think he is manipulating the will with a sham marriage, then there may be ways to go after him legally, should there be some advantage in it.
True, but he has Mr. Stokes on his side, and the lazy but smart uncle. Both pick up pretty quickly that this marriage might be the making of Sherry--and will get rid of noxious Uncle Horace.
Hi, can I remind you all that you are in the thread for the first half of the book? I noticed there were some spoilers in the Devils Cub thread as well.Goodreads don't make it easy for moderators to move comments unfortunately.
Carol ♛ Type, Oh Queen! ♛ wrote: "Hi, can I remind you all that you are in the thread for the first half of the book? I noticed there were some spoilers in the Devils Cub thread as well.Goodreads don't make it easy for moderators..."
Thanks for the reminder. We can talk about things that happen up to this point in the book but not later, right? So anything up to chapter 12 is fair game even if it's a bit of a surprise but anything in chapter 13 need to be in another thread?
I see it as use spoiler tags for anything that is a plot giveaway.I think having three threads per book is too complicated & it is too easy to forget what thread you are in.
Howard wrote: "I don't personally care for sex scenes in my romances. But I still find it odd when Sherry leaves his wife at her bedroom and heads to his. Sure, different people have different sexual drives, but ..."most unlikely i would say for a man like Sherry.
Hana wrote: "Or maybe we are all being too 21st century about this book....If he grew up with her perhaps he thought about her as a sister or close cousin. Maybe that was enough to make her off limits. Still......"he'd hardly have married her if he thought of her as a sister. marriages between cousins were acceptable.
I think the sister reference was meant about his platonic feelings towards her, and that he still was locked into 'she's mylittle sister' mindset.Often, ladies in Hero's little sister category would make the change to 'desirable' when they went off to debut in town, and arrived back 'completely different' (probably just seen as different by the immature young men).
Louise wrote: "Howard wrote: "I don't personally care for sex scenes in my romances. But I still find it odd when Sherry leaves his wife at her bedroom and heads to his. Sure, different people have different sexu..."But we are never given the impression that Sherry was a libertine. All the women in his past (opera dancers and others) have all be willing participants. He has promised Hero he wouldn't "force his attentions on her" so he likely he would have thought that she wouldn't have welcomed them and it would have been inappropriate.
I'm sure he was a lusty young man but that doesn't make him the type to expect sex from women who wouldn't want to sleep with him.
I put my additional comments in the spoilers thread because they got a little too detailed for here.
Does Sherry's solution to his problem, to propose to the first woman he lays eyes on, make any sense? Not much. But I am willing to suspend disbelief that far, and further. He not only proposes but marries Hero with no intention of consummating the marriage. Otherwise, we have no story. That's how I see it anyway.
Amy wrote: "Louise wrote: "Howard wrote: "I don't personally care for sex scenes in my romances. But I still find it odd when Sherry leaves his wife at her bedroom and heads to his. Sure, different people have..."i never got the impression that hero would object. She doted on Sherry. i imagine she would have been quite an eager participant.
Sheila wrote: "Does Sherry's solution to his problem, to propose to the first woman he lays eyes on, make any sense? Not much. But I am willing to suspend disbelief that far, and further. He not only proposes but..."i can't imagine sherry wanting an unconsummated marriage. he would expect to have children at least, he would want an heir and a spare anyway.
Sherry made that promise recklessly. I think he clearly didn't mean to keep it, but when he told Hero, and she said, "That's me," he had second thoughts--well, why not?
Sheila wrote: "Does Sherry's solution to his problem, to propose to the first woman he lays eyes on, make any sense? Not much. But I am willing to suspend disbelief that far, and further. He not only proposes but..."No but he's in a miff, and he isn't serious until he finds his old friend in distress. (view spoiler)
He sees it as a way to solve both their problems, he's not looking for someone to love and she makes a pleasant and biddable companion.
And I agree with Louise that Hero wouldn't have objected. I don't think he even considered it.
i can't imagine sherry wanting an unconsummated marriage. he would expect to have children at least, he would want an heir and a spare anyway.Oh, sure, in some dimly imagined future ... but I don't get the impression he's in any hurry to set up his nursery. Like many young people, he figures he's immortal and has all the time in the world. (view spoiler)
One attraction he had was that she's one of the guys... Except when he notices differently.
Howard wrote: "One attraction he had was that she's one of the guys... Except when he notices differently."Exactly! She's one of the guys and adores him and goes along with whatever he wants - even better...(I say this as the mother of a very decent but still rather self-centered 21-year-old man, and not much about Sherry's behavior surprises me - except the few times he hits Hero.)
Did he hit Hero the woman? Or did she hit Hero who was one of the guys?(I don't care for reading that he hit her, but wouldn't have minded reading him hit his male friend.)
Yes, toward the beginning right after they were married, I'm afraid I can't remember where in the book but I believe he boxes her ears or slaps her. Sorry, I am away from home and don't have my book with me. Anyone able to help?
I meant, was he thinking of her as "one of the guys" or as a woman or wife?
Howard, I believe he was thinking of her as one of the guys or just an annoying kid.. It's always been one of the parts the bothered me the most about the book.
Amy wrote: "Howard, I believe he was thinking of her as one of the guys or just an annoying kid.. It's always been one of the parts the bothered me the most about the book."Thanks Amy, I agree.
Yes, he did box her ears, I am not sure if it happened within the first 12 chapters, so (view spoiler)
I'm thinking Heyer used this example to show that he was thinking of her as though she was one of the guys.
Howard wrote: "I'm thinking Heyer used this example to show that he was thinking of her as though she was one of the guys."And, if so, he actually showed quite a bit of restraint in not planting her a facer or hauling her off to Jackson't to box it out...
He has to react without thinking, so Jackson's won't work. And boxing one's ears is what guys did back then.
I always thought of boxing ones ears as more something a parent would do to a child. Kind of an equivalent to a spank on the bottom.
I thought it was a very juvenile punishment. Which led strength to the theory that he just thought of her as an annoying little kid.
Howard wrote: "He has to react without thinking, so Jackson's won't work. And boxing one's ears is what guys did back then."I guess if I have to explain that I was making a joke, it wasn't a very good one, huh?
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Sherry is one of my least favorite Heyer protagonists. I even prefer Heyer's rakes to Sherry's carelessness.