NoK - Chapter Two - NO SPOILERS

[Lee, High Priest of Shadow]

Chapter Two Discussion Thread.

[Lee, High Priest of Shadow]

demon hounds that figured so prominently in Shadow Moon legends.

Well we now all about them there hounds.

Well the Nights Shadow certainly has a got the island in a bit of a panic. Shadow Hounds howling and possibly hunting. The key points in this chapter is Kellenved attempting to enter the Deadhouse on this particular night. The phrase, he needs to lose it all to win it has some portent. Oleg certainly shows the intent of Kellenved'd plan on claiming the Shadow realm,

[Scott]

I found chapter two flowed a lot better than one. A lot more action.

The fisherman was interesting

GOTM spoiler

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Is the fisherman's wife the woman who helps Sorry? I had to look up Sorry's father's name, Rellock to be sure it wasn't Toben to eliminate that possibility.

In general I keep thinking OK is this character going to have a name change, another Malazan frequent event, and becomes somebody else? A Tattersail, Lorn, NightChill.........
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[Gonzalo]

@Scott I find myself looking for connections too.

[Lee, High Priest of Shadow]

It is going to be hard isn't it, not discussing future plots. Might be using those spoiler tags often.

[Lee, High Priest of Shadow]

Scott, I hear ya. That was a interesting thought on the fisherwoman.

It does lead to a good question. I think that we shoudl use spoiler tags for all MbotF ahead of current time. But I don't think we need to for same time. So I think it should be fine to relate to GotM in this book discussion.

I should get the timelines of the books and post to show where we are approx in time line. So we know what has happened in MbotF and what we can refer to openly.
Or do you think that will be too difficult to remember what events are where in Fallen?

[Lee, High Priest of Shadow]

Some books I want SE to write, that these first two chapters remind me of.

Y'Ghaten - the first story with Dassem adn the BB
Mock - His life and how he shaped Malaz

[Scott]

Lee wrote: "Scott, I hear ya. That was a interesting thought on the fisherwoman.

It does lead to a good question. I think that we shoudl use spoiler tags for all MbotF ahead of current time. But I don't thin..."

I figured better safe than sorry. I assume everybody has read GOTM but I'm only through Midnight Tides so if somebody has a Bonehunters or forward spoiler I certainly don't want to see it.

[Scott]

Lee wrote: "Or do you think that will be too difficult to remember what events are where in Fallen? ."

Well I already screwed up, although not badly. We don't get Sorry's father's name until DHG. Not a huge detail but nonetheless short of the two authors I doubt most people can keep it all straight.

That said..........anybody ever work with or know the idiot savant type who couldn't do their job and remember important details and yet would correct you on Monty Python or other quotes with the verbatim syntax? I'm sure there's people who can rattle off every warren, what it's for and who has access to it. I'm just not one of them.

Major props for people who can keep other worlds straight because I'm still struggling with this one. :)

[Scott]

I also like how Kellivand and Dancer aren't the default good guys and Oleg is trying to stop them. Dancer the one stalking Kiska using the shadows to go back to his master?

[Lee, High Priest of Shadow]

Yes, that was how I read it. Kellanved is chatting to Oleg and Dancer is prowling.

Wonder where those two have been whilst setting this night up.

[Scott]

I think I know your answer but I'm not sure if that was given up in MOI or HOC so I wouldn't look unless you've read both.

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They were traveling the warren of shadows well beyond these continents. I don't remember the exact reveal but that was the gist of it. I believe both Quick Ben and Draconus referenced it along with Dancer/Cotillion himself.
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[Carl]

I have forgotten so much about the SE novels. I keep wondering how much I'm missing because of that.

The action scene with Kiska was described a bit weirdly. I felt like I was just being told what was happening rather than it being described in the moment. If that makes any sense?

I'm glad to be back in this world.

[Lee, High Priest of Shadow]

Scott wrote: "I think I know your answer but I'm not sure if that was given up in MOI or HOC so I wouldn't look unless you've read both.


I was thinking more what, than where :)
They obviously took Olegs theories and tested or studied them. Somewhere they formed the opinion that The Shadow Moon is the time to try for the Deadhouse. Given that Kiska's story tells her not believing in the Shadow Moon madness tells us two things; one it has happened before for there to be stories and two, it is timed perfectly with everything else going on. So did they somehow make the shadow moon happen?

[Lee, High Priest of Shadow]

Carl wrote: "I have forgotten so much about the SE novels. I keep wondering how much I'm missing because of that.

The action scene with Kiska was described a bit weirdly. I felt like I was just being told wha..."

Yeah, I am kinda forgiving second time round because a) I know his writing improves as the books go on and b) who deosn't love being back in this world!

[Scott]

Lee wrote: "Scott wrote: "I think I know your answer but I'm not sure if that was given up in MOI or HOC so I wouldn't look unless you've read both.


I was thinking more what, than where :)
They obviously t..."

Exact quotes from HOC

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Apsalar settled back on the tiller as the sails filled and the runner leapt forward. ‘For two years,’ she said, ‘Dancer and the Emperor vanished. Left the empire for Surly to rule. My stolen memories are vague of that time, but I do know that both men were changed, irrevocably, by all that happened to them during those two years. Not just the play for the Shadow Realm, which no doubt was central to their desires. Other things occurred… truths revealed, mysteries uncovered. One thing I know for certain, Crokus, is that, for most of those two years, Dancer and Kellanved were not in this realm.’

‘Then where in Hood’s name were they?’
She shook her head. ‘I cannot answer that question. But I sense that they were following a trail, one that wound through all the warrens, and to realms where even the known warrens do not reach.’

‘What kind of trail? Whose?’ ‘Suspicions… the trail had something to do with, well, with the Houses of the Azath.’ Mysteries uncovered indeed. The Azath— the deepest mystery of them all. ‘You should know, Crokus,’ Apsalar continued, ‘that they knew that Surly was waiting for them. They knew what she had planned. Yet they returned none the less.’

‘But that makes no sense.’

‘Unless she proceeded to do precisely what they wanted her to do. After all, we both know that the assassinations failed— failed in killing either of them. The question then becomes: what did that entire mess achieve?’

‘A rhetorical question?’

She cocked her head. ‘No.’

Surprised. Cutter rubbed at the bristle on his jaw, then shrugged. ‘All right. It left Surly on the Malazan throne. Empress Laseen was born. It stripped from Kellanved his secular seat of power. Hmm. Let’s ask it another way. What if Kellanved and Dancer had returned and successfully reclaimed the imperial throne? But, at the same time, they had taken over the Shadow Realm. Thus, there would be an empire spanning two warrens, an empire of Shadow.’

He paused, then slowly nodded. ‘They wouldn’t have stood for that— the gods, that is. Ascendants of all kinds would have converged on the Malazan Empire. They would have pounded the empire and the two men ruling it into dust.’

‘Probably. And neither Kellanved nor Dancer was in any position to mount a successful resistance to such a protracted assault. They’d yet to consolidate their claim on the Shadow Realm.’

Erikson, Steven (2006-08-22). House of Chains: Book Four of The Malazan Book of the Fallen (pp. 773-775).


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[Eugenio]

I was a little thrown around by Kiska's scene at the estate. Describing what she saw and then down and then back up and what she saw and down, then back up, and down. Had to read that section again to make sense that first Oleg was with Kellevand and then with Dancer (I assumed and seems to be confirmed here).

Was it Dancer that tried killing Kiska? And Oleg "mind torpedoed" him?

A little turned around here!

The Bridgeburner "regiment" in Coop's is interesting. What is their purpose? Are they there under orders? And who gave those orders? Looking forward to that resolution. Also cannot wait for Temper to lose his cool. From BotF, several character's go through bits of "Why are they following me?" and "I don't want this to end badly" which usually ends badly for the other guy. So even though it is plainly choreographed, I do want to see how Esslemont writes Temper unleashing... well his temper.

[Lee, High Priest of Shadow]

A lot of who is who in that little exchange is explained in chapter three and four. So I won't spoil it for you by confirming or denying your suspicions :)

The Bridgeburners being there is very interesting. We know from GotM that Surly has her own crew and is not a fan of Kellanved's Team Empire. So the question is, who are the Bridgeburners here for? Read on!

[Eugenio]

Lee wrote: "A lot of who is who in that little exchange is explained in chapter three and four. So I won't spoil it for you by confirming or denying your suspicions :)

The Bridgeburners being there is very in..."

Already into chapter 3 quite a bit, and hope to finish the book fully by this weekend so that I can be caught up fully for the following book (RotCG?)

I don't want to say who I believe sent the Bridgeburner yet, and just found them again in Chapter 3 following and capturing someone else in story.... will discuss that in the Chapter 3 post. But if it is who I believe it is, will tie nicely into some throw away comments from Fid in BotF series.

Really enjoying this Group Read! Once done the Empire series, I will look forward to whatever comes next!

[Sumant]

We get major revelations in this chapter from Oleg regarding what Dancer & Kellanvand are planning.

Also Temper with bridgeburners seems interesting.

Also Temper was in Daseem's squad, and Daseem suffered a defeat at Yghatan don't remember reading any of that stuff, well it was 2 years back :(