WE ARE OPEN - WEEK ONE - MILITARY SERIES: HANNS AND RUDOLF - May 12th - May 18th - List of Illustrations, Maps, Author's Note, Prologue and Chapter One: RUDOLF, BADEN-BADEN, GERMANY, 1901 (ix - 17) No Spoilers, Please

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

Yes Michele - I agree.

[Sheila C]

Michael wrote: "Hi , I am Michael from Connecticut. After reading the Prologue it reminded me of book Flags of our Father where James Bradley did not know about his fathers role of raising the flag at Iwo Jima.
As..."

Hi, Michael. Your point about how many veterans/servicemembers do not freely share their war experiences is so true. It seems an obligation of the next generations to seek out those stories, like Thomas Harding has done. Harding's statement of our lives occuring in an age where the waters are closing over the history of the Second World War, along with his comments of his family having concerns/questions about digging up the past in the Q&A section are interesting. Is it the survivor of these experience reluctance to discuss, or is it those who follow not really wanting to know the sometimes horrific details that such an experience often carry? I am grateful that there are stories such as this to shed light and want for those many other stories that remain untold.

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

Libby that is a possibility and maybe in some strange way - being the Kommandant at the time seemed respectable to him and probably he acquired more for his own family being in that position - a position which as we all know was as horrifying and as despicable as any job could possibly be.

I think you are trying to make a connection with Rudolf's upbringing and what his parents and family tried to do when he was younger. And that may be a correct assumption given that we are a product of our upbringing whatever that might be.

[Vincent]

Sheila wrote: "Michael wrote: "Hi , I am Michael from Connecticut. After reading the Prologue it reminded me of book Flags of our Father where James Bradley did not know about his fathers role of raising the flag..."

Just to comment that Stephen Ambrose specialized in doing books based upon oral history for WWII D-Day / Citizen Soldier
(these were heavilyu the basis for SAving Private Ryan)
or personal history
With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa

These are good books that I liked a lot. Try one or all if you want

[Katy]

Hi Vince, thanks for the suggestions. You should add the books to the Bibliography thread too: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

And the books you cited should look like this:
by Stephen E. Ambrose
by Eugene B. Sledge

[Nita]

Hi Everyone! I'm coming to this discussion a little late, but I will catch up. My name is Nita, and I'm from North Carolina. My father is a WWII veteran, so I am especially interested in WWII history.

I really enjoyed the prologue and first chapter. Harding is a gifted writer. Rudolf's childhood does not give any hint that he will become a mass murderer, as far as I can tell.

[Cameron]

I really enjoyed the first chapter it was surprising

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

What surprised you Cameron? Be specific.

[Nita]

There were several incidents or losses in Rudolf's young life that may foreshadow the man he will become. The kidnapping by the gypsies must have been terrifying. His parents were distant, but he was close to his priest--that is, until the priest betrayed the confidence of the confessional. From then on, Rudolf no longer cared much about the Church.

His father's death was not much of a loss to him, as they were not close.

He wanted to join the military and fight in the "Great War." There, he found his captain who looked out for him and kept him under his wing. The captain's death had a major impact on Rudolf, and he felt alone again.

There was also the nurse he fell in love with while he was in the hospital, but he never saw her again. Here is another major loss.

While he was in the military, Rudolf "raised his gun . . . and started shooting rapidly, round after round, 'as if the spell was broken.' Rudolf had discovered within himself a new skill: he could kill, efficiently and quickly, in the heat of battle." (p. 14) This really jumped out at me as perhaps the first real step to his becoming a mass murderer.

I love this book!

[Kressel]

Nita wrote: "While he was in the military, Rudolf "raised his gun . . . and started shooting rapidly, round after round, 'as if the spell was broken.' Rudolf had discovered within himself a new skill: he could kill, efficiently and quickly, in the heat of battle." (p. 14) This really jumped out at me as perhaps the first real step to his becoming a mass murderer."

I agree. And it happened to thousands of other boys alongside him. Earlier it was pointed out that Dr. Alexander didn't have that reaction to war, but he was there as a doctor, not a soldier.

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

Some interesting insights Nita. Glad that you are enjoying this book.

[Phillip]

I find it interesting what different families keep hidden in their closets. Rudolf seems to have had a nice boyhood. I too loved to play in the woods as a kid.

Sorry for getting behind on commentary. Should get caught up with Week III.

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

Thank you Phillip for your explanation - we welcome you to the discussion and I look forward to reading your posts. I think you will enjoy the book.

For the most part - Rudolf's childhood was not that different from many other boys aside from being kidnapped by gypsies - but luckily rescued/returned.

[Kathryn]

Jumping in late here as I just got my book. I live in London and I have a degree in holocaust and genocide studies. However, my job has nothing to do with my degree, so I read to fuel my passion for history.

What first struck me is how normal Rudolf's upbringing was at the time. While someones childhood definitely influences their adult life - I don't think it would be fair to generalize that his parents were distant so he was destined to become the commandant of Auschwitz.

Its going to be interesting to see how a lover of animals becomes the person Rudolf ends up as.

[Vincent]

Kathryn wrote: "Jumping in late here as I just got my book. I live in London and I have a degree in holocaust and genocide studies. However, my job has nothing to do with my degree, so I read to fuel my passion ..."

Hi Kathryn

Curious - Is holocaust and genocide studies History or Polisci?

At what school I am also curious?

Thanks

[Kathryn]

It falls under history. I don't really want to say where I went to school. But it was in the States. I'm an expat.

[Bryan]

Thanks Kathryn, there probably is not a deterministic link between Auschwitz and bad parenting, but it might play a factor in his decisions over a life-time, I suppose.

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

Kathryn glad to hear that some of the UK folks got their book. It is never too late to join in.

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

Welcome back Lewis. And you are welcome. However I had to delete the part of your post which self promotes - no self promotion here.

Lewis stated:

Hi, I'm Lewis...a little slow in commenting. Thanks for all the good comments! I love history, geography, and travel. Have lived in the US, Europe, and Asia.

Am very much enjoying the relaxed, easy writing style of the book. Don't normally like books that bounce back and forth between characters as this book does, but he has managed to do it well. As I read the account of the simple, quiet life of Rudolf and his family, I wonder how he went from there to become the person he did and to kill so coldly and efficiently in later years. It is mentioned (page 8) that Rudolf was severely punished for relatively minor infractions, and perhaps experiencing this harsh treatment of people, along with his military career, may have resulted in him viewing people as individuals to correct and discipline rather than to show pity or compassion toward.

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

Rudolf's last name for our purposes in this discussion should be spelled Hoess. We were spelling it a variety of ways. But Hoess it is.

[Whitney]

I also identified with reasons given in the prologue for writing the book. Some of my family members are very into family history, and I sometimes wonder if the stories they tell are real, exaggerated, or simply family myth. Harding wanting to learn the truth of family stories resonated with me.

I found chapter 1 to be an intriguing start to the book. There seemed to be several possible reasons given as an explanation for Rudolph's later behavior. Perhaps, it was not one event that was the deciding factor for him. As stated in previous posts any one of the factors--getting kidnapped, betrayal from the priest, bad relationship with his father, distance from his family, or killing a man could have been the catalyst, but it may have been the combination that was too much for him. I am eager to continue reading to learn more about Rudolph, and also to learn some of Hans' story.

[Bryan]

Great start, Whitney. I agree, I think it was many moments in his early life and choices that set Rudolph into a certain direction in life.

[Jill]

We are glad you joined in the group read, Whitney. I think as you get further into the story of Rudolf, you may get a clearer idea of his actions in later life. It is an interesting tale.

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

Whitney wrote: "I also identified with reasons given in the prologue for writing the book. Some of my family members are very into family history, and I sometimes wonder if the stories they tell are real, exaggerate..."

We are delighted to have you join in - it is never too late.

I have to agree with you Whitney - what was the one straw that broke the camel's back? Or was it a combination of factors. Sometimes it is difficult to pin point one thing.