Classics and the Western Canon discussion
Dostoevsky, Brothers Karamazov
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I have the Oxford World's Classics' Ignat Avsey translation, and book 4 is Crises, and book 9 is Judicial Investigation, book 10 Schoolboys, book 12 Judicial Mistake/
For the Pevear/Volokhonsky translation, Book 1 is "A Nice Little Family", Book 2 is "An Inappropriate Gathering," Book 4 "Strains" and Book 12 "A Judicial Error". Interesting the differences in translation just for those twelve short titles!
Dostoyevsky, Fyodor. The Brothers Karamazov. Translated by Constance Garnet, BookMasters Library of Alexandria. Kindle Edition.https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...
$2.99 on Amazon with matching Naxos Audio Audible narration: https://www.amazon.com/Brothers-Karam...
$41.61 for just the audiobook, $2.99 if you buy the kindle book first.
This edition seems to match the listed reading schedule with only three slightly different book titles.
Book X.
Book XI.
Book XII.
I am so excited!!!! I haven't read a book with the group in ages.... Either by choice or circumstance.Looking forward to having a shot... Not sure I will be my usual analytical self (with a babe in arms, and kids schooling at home), but I am looking forward to it al the same.
Cass wrote: "I am so excited!!!! I haven't read a book with the group in ages.... Either by choice or circumstance.Looking forward to having a shot... Not sure I will be my usual analytical self (with a babe ..."
I give my much belated but sincere congratulations! and good for you, I wasn't able to read any heavy duty books until my kids were toddlers. Looking forward to BK as well.
Cass wrote: "I am so excited!!!! I haven't read a book with the group in ages..."And we're definitely excited to have you back!
Hello! I saw a comment by Everyman in another group about this upcoming read, and having just gotten the Pevear, I clicked on over here to join up. I've got my Pevear paperback and my Kindle Garnett ready to go. I crossed Crime and Punishment and War and Peace off my bucket list in the last couple of years, and I'm looking forward to another in-depth Russian work. This looks like an active group!
SusanK wrote: "Hello! I saw a comment by Everyman in another group about this upcoming read, and having just gotten the Pevear, I clicked on over here to join up. I've got my Pevear paperback and my Kindle Garnet..."Glad to have you over here!
Stephanie wrote: "I am planning to join in"Excellent.
SusanK wrote: "Hello! I saw a comment by Everyman in another group about this upcoming read, and having just gotten the Pevear, I clicked on over here to join up. I've got my Pevear paperback and my Kindle Garnet..."Last time I read this it was the Pevear translation which I had decided was the best. However this time I'll try the Garnett translation as my library has a copy available via ebook.
Oh, another library has the Pevear so I'll be able to stick with that. I've seen some of the text from the various translations side by side and, to me anyway, their translation was so much the better and more authentic.
I'm hoping to join in. This is yet another 'abandoned' book on my shelves. Also it has been a while since I have readwith this group; always stimulating. I hope that I read to the end this time!
Hilary wrote: "I'm hoping to join in. This is yet another 'abandoned' book on my shelves. Also it has been a while since I have readwith this group; always stimulating. I hope that I read to the end this time!"
We hope so too! Our reading pace will be relaxed enough that we hope everybody will read to the end. After all, this is on virtually every list of the ten best works of literature ever written It's up to us over the next weeks to find out why!
I was just talking to my Russian student (she practices her English speaking with me). She confessed to abandoning this one too!... I did invite her to join us.
Hilary wrote: "I'm hoping to join in. This is yet another 'abandoned' book on my shelves. Also it has been a while since I have read with this group; always stimulating. I hope that I read to the end this time!"Good luck, Hilary! :) I wish I could join in on this one, but I'm still playing catch up in other groups.
Lisa wrote: "Hoping to join in too"Do come on in!
I have not participated for some time, but I would like to join in on this. I read this about 45 years ago (probably Signet Classics) and again 2 years ago (Richard and Larrissa), but someone's comments made me realize I missed quite a bit. I will be a little busy in August with taking grandkids to Friends of Bodie Day (my wife's grandmother was born there) and being kicked-out of the house for a week by my wife's quilting group, but I will try to keep up. Anything else you want to know?
Hi. Count me in. This is my first Goodreads Group and my first Goodreads comment. I'm working on returning to reading the classics, and I'm delighted at the prospect of having some company and conversation along the way.
Delighted to have you both with us, Don and Garnette. We read fairly slowly here, because the books deserve slow reading, and it gives time for richer discussions to develop.The only ting you need to know is that we really do encourage everybody to participate actively. Even if you don't think you have anything profound to say, don't be shy, but say what you are thinking, because it almost always resonates with somebody else who may be even shyer than you are but is encouraged to see that others have the same thoughts they do.
Participation in the discussion is the best way to clarify your own thoughts and help others clarify theirs. So no holding back!
And welcome to the group and the discussion!
Don wrote: "..being kicked-out of the house for a week by my wife's quilting group, but I will try to keep up. Anything else you want to know?"Yes, do you ever return the favour and kick her out? :)
Welcome back.
I am so glad we are not rushing through this book! I find myself reading, putting it down to think about what I've just read, and picking it up again - more so than most books I've read. It is almost as if it needs to be savored more than just consumed.
Kerstin wrote: "I am so glad we are not rushing through this book! I find myself reading, putting it down to think about what I've just read, and picking it up again - more so than most books I've read. It is almo..."I read one-third of BK over the weekend, and it wasn't as thought-provoking as I had expected. Maybe the Grand Inquisitor will change that.
Nemo wrote: "I read one-third of BK over the weekend, and it wasn't as thought-provoking as I had expected."Perhaps in the forthcoming discussions we'll provoke more thoughts for you. :)
Thanks Linda. Sorry I'm only seeing your comment now! I know the problem: I have so many unfinished books. There are even more than I thought. BK is not listed, but unfortunately I did start and abandon. As usual there was no good reason for this.I wish that you were reading this with us, but I know that you have to draw the line somewhere. I hope that all is well with you!
Is this the last major read of the year?
Theresa wrote: "Is this the last major read of the year?"Yes. More info on plans for the holiday season will be forthcoming soon.
The book was released in monthly installments over two years. I am trying to find the schedule for what was released when, but am not having much luck. Any suggestions?
Theresa wrote: "The book was released in monthly installments over two years. I am trying to find the schedule for what was released when, but am not having much luck. Any suggestions?"Theresa,
It is mentioned in the following paper from Dostoevsky Studies, New Series, Vol. XV (2011) pp. 29-36
(very nicely wrapped up at the very end):
http://periodicals.narr.de/index.php/...
Also here:http://sites.utoronto.ca/tsq/DS/07/08...
Serialization of The Brothers Karamazov
January 1879 "From the Author", Books I, II
February 1879 Book III
March 1879
April 1879 Book IV
May 1879 Book V, 1-4
June 1879 Book V, 5-7
July 1879
August 1879 Book VI
September 1879 Book VII
October 1879 Book VIII, 1-4
November 1879 Book VIII, 5-8
December 1879 (apology for delay)
January 1880 Book IX
February 1880
March 1880
April 1880 Book X
May 1880
June 1880
July 1880 Book XI, 1-5
August 1880 Book XI, 6-10
September 1880 Book XII, 1-5
October 1880 Book XII, 6-14
November 1880 Epilogue
Haaze wrote: "Also here:http://sites.utoronto.ca/tsq/DS/07/08...
Serialization of The Brothers Karamazov
January 1879 "From the Author", Books I, II
February 1879 Book III
March 1879
April 1879 Book IV..."
His original readers had two years -- basically 100 weeks -- to absorb what we're working through in only 13 weeks. So if some of you are a bit behind, you're still way ahead of the original readers!!
In the past, I've found it to be a good thing to give yourself a pause of a few days between what were original installments. Just a day or two to absorb the previous installment. The experience of a "binge" read might not be what the author intended.
An interesting article about translations of the Russian classics with an emphasis on the translations by Pevear/Volokhonsky as well as Constance Garnett:http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/200...
from the New Yorker (2005)
What is your opinion of Constance Garnett's translations? Anybody reading her translation of "The Brothers Karamazov" this time around? Is she really a translator that completely changes the language? The article above (msg #38) seems very biased towards Pevear/Volokhonsky (truly a labor of love!). Personally, I have been happy with the Garnett translations I have encountered so far (D's "Crime and Punishment", Tolstoy's "War and Peace"/"Anna Karenina" as well as Chekhov's short stories). Are most of us P&V fans? Just curious.....I gravitate towards Garnett, but after reading the article I wonder if I have been reading a severely altered version of the works? Nabokov seemingly abhorred Garnett's translation of "Anna Karenina"! Did she "shift" the language of Dostoyevsky's "The Brothers Karamazov" in a similar fashion?
There are critics of both Garnett and PV -- Garnett gets dinged for smoothing over rough patches in the Russian, and PV gets dinged for the opposite, leaving roughness in the English -- but isn't this always the way? If given a choice, I will always err on the side of the overly literal translation, so I'm reading PV, but there are good arguments in support of both approaches. In any case, I tend to discount the opinions of critics who cannot read the source language. Speaking of which, Bigollo is probably the best one in the group to address the question of translations from the Russian.
Thomas wrote: "In any case, I tend to discount the opinions of critics who cannot read the source language. "Very true, Thomas! Only a bilingual person can truly assess the issue. What is interesting about P&V is how V is fluent in Russian while P does not know the language. Interesting cooperation in terms of shaping the translation.
Reading the Russian novels makes me wish that I was fluent in Russian....
I, too, love the PV translations, and most of the Russian classics I've read, have been in their versions. I think the first of theirs I read was Dostoevsky's The Idiot, which is extraordinarily gripping. That being said, I think the article from the New Yorker overstates the case somewhat, even though it was that very article that convinced me to read them in the first place. As far as Nabokov is concerned, he was extremely opinionated, and just because he didn't like Garnett's work, doesn't mean it is worthless.
The work is divided into twelve books plus an epilogue. We have decided to schedule the reading at one book per week. We recognize that the books are of different (sometimes significantly different) lengths, but this seems better than trying to break up the reading sections across books to get a more equal number of pages per week. We're also scheduling a week for the Epilogue, which is very short, but this will allow plenty of time for discussing the work as a whole.
The schedule may seem long, stretching as it does into late October, but I think there will be plenty to discuss in what Freud called "the most magnificent novel ever written," and a book written by a man of whom Nietzsche wrote "Dostoyevsky is the only psychologist from whom I have anything to learn." (I'm sure we will have some interesting discussion of those viewpoints as we get deep into the book.) At any rate, I believe the work will justify our spending this amount of time on it.
The book titles are from the Garnett translation, and may be different in other translations.
So here's the reading schedule:
August 3, Book 1: The History of a Certain Family
August 10, Book 2: An Unfortunate Gathering
August 17, Book 3: The Sensualists
August 24, Book 4: Lacerations
August 31, Book 5: Pro and Contra
September 7, Book 6: The Russian Monk
September 14, Book 7: Alyosha
September 21, Book 8: Mitya
September 28, Book 9: The Preliminary Investigation
October 5, Book 10: Boys
October 12, Book 11: Brother Ivan Fyodorovich
October 19, Book 12: A Miscarriage of Justice
October 26, Epilogue and the book as a whole