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If you could go back in time and live in another century...?
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Michael wrote: "Gary wrote: ""Paris 1890. I'd make a beeline to the Moulin Rouge, say hi to Toulouse-Lautrec, buy him a drink (maybe two or three) and ask him to read The Devil in Montmartre.Seriously, a great t..."
Thanks, Mike!
6 months to the release date, and I'm getting antsy. ;)
Best,
Gary
Melissa wrote: "I'm inclined to agree with C. P. and say I would like to visit with all my immunizations- I wouldn't want to get the Black Plague, for instance."People can catch the plague in the US even today. Sweet dreams! :-P http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wor...
Regards, a nitpicker :-P
Aloha Tytti:We need to get you out of the cold, pessimistic North and down to a more cheerful sunny part of the globe :). Did you ever see Ingemar Bergman's film "The Seventh Seal?"
Cheers,
Mike
Sign me up as a fully-immunized time traveler/historian. Can't decide where and when, so many choices.Tytti: yes, the plague is still around, but is susceptible to antibiotics, thank goodness. (Also apparently a vaccine.)
Michael wrote: "We need to get you out of the cold, pessimistic North and down to a more cheerful sunny part of the globe :). Did you ever see Ingemar Bergman's film "The Seventh Seal?""Cold? Today was a bit cooler day, only around 25 degrees Celsius, Tuesday it was about 30 degrees...
I don't think I've seen it, I've heard about it, though.
Tytti wrote: "Michael wrote: "We need to get you out of the cold, pessimistic North and down to a more cheerful sunny part of the globe :). Did you ever see Ingemar Bergman's film "The Seventh Seal?""Cold? Tod..."
Aloha Tytti:
You'll like it. Surreal but beautiful. A medieval knight playing chess with Death (Black Death/Plague).
Cheers,
Mike
I'll add a reference to Woody Allen's Midnight in Paris, in which the protagonist (Owen Wilson), a writer who's fascinated by 1920's Paris, is magically transported back to that era. He meets the Fitzgeralds, Hemingway, Gertrude Stein, Picasso, Dali, et. al., and a young woman who in turn is drawn to the Belle Epoque. In one scene, the two are transported to the 1890's, where they meet Toulouse-Lautrec et. al. at the Moulin Rouge. That film reminded me of a 1930's fantasy,Berkeley Square, starring Leslie Howard (remade in the early 1950's as The House in the Square aka I'll Never Forget You with Tyrone Power and Ann Blyth). In that film, the protagonist longs for a witty, peaceful, genteel Georgian London. He's magically transported to the late 18th century and, after a brief fascination with the period, he's disillusioned by the class prejudice, cruelty, dirt, primitive science, etc. of the period.
Most of the time-travel stories incorporate similar fish out of water tropes, story-line and character arc. The past--or the future--might be an interesting place to visit, but you wouldn't want to live there.
Like Dorothy in the land of Oz, the time-traveler wants a pair of ruby slippers as his/her "get out of jail free" card. ;)
I would love to go back to colonial and the Revolutionary War eras and meet my ancestors!
I'd like to visit the Persian King Dariush I (living 25 centures ago); he did great jobs. He ordered one of his engineers named Artakheh to make the Suez canal in Egypt because he needed his ships to travel to Egypt and to Indian Ocean.
Gary wrote: "I'll add a reference to Woody Allen's Midnight in Paris, in which the protagonist (Owen Wilson), a writer who's fascinated by 1920's Paris, is magically transported back to that era. He meets the F..."Aloha Gary:
Midnight in Paris was a charmer. Hemingway getting drunk and challenging someone to fight was hilarious.
The great writer has been dead for over 50 years now -- I wonder if anyone has used Hemingway as a character in a historical novel yet (as opposed to a film).
Cheers,
Mike
Hamid wrote: "I'd like to visit the Persian King Dariush I (living 25 centures ago); he did great jobs. He ordered one of his engineers named Artakheh to make the Suez canal in Egypt because he needed his ships..."Aloha Hamid:
Persia -- now that was an empire and a civilization to behold! Good choice.
Cheers,
Mike
Michael wrote: "Gary wrote: "I'll add a reference to Woody Allen's Midnight in Paris, in which the protagonist (Owen Wilson), a writer who's fascinated by 1920's Paris, is magically transported back to that era. H..."Mike, I know Hemingway appears as a character in historical novels about him and his relationships with wives and lovers, e.g. The Paris Wife, or his relationships with those closely associated with him like the Fitzgeralds. I don't know of any novels where Hemingway appears as a minor character, but I'll bet there are a few.
BTW, Alan Rudolph's The Moderns is another film where Hemingway appears in some particularly hilarious scenes.
The Paris Wife
Michael wrote: "I wonder if anyone has used Hemingway as a character in a historical novel yet (as opposed to a film)."I just read a biography of a woman who was used as a basis for a character by at least three different authors.
Tytti wrote: "People can catch the plague in the US even today. Sweet dreams! :-P"So they can. But a course of antibiotics will treat it. The problem now is getting doctors to recognize it. Once they do, the cure is there.
Michael wrote: "Good luck with the Parkville Bookworm! You indie store folks deserve a medal. Good luck with your Indiegogo pitch!"Second that! Online is great, but nothing can match an actual bookstore.
Addicted to books, and proud of it.
Tytti wrote: "Michael wrote: "I wonder if anyone has used Hemingway as a character in a historical novel yet (as opposed to a film)."I just read a biography of a woman who was used as a basis for a character b..."
Aloha Tytti:
Fascinating! Who was the person in real life, and what were the three novels?
Cheers
Mike
Michael wrote: "Fascinating! Who was the person in real life, and what were the three novels?"She was Minna Craucher and I don't think the novels have been translated... maybe one of them to some languages. She wasn't very well known before her murder but she hang around interesting and/or well known people and became famous posthumously. My review can be found here: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Aloha Tytti:Interesting...Finnish socialite and spy, her home a salon for writers and artists, murdered by a shot to the head (per Wikipedia). Sounds like a fascinating story! Will check out your Goodreads book review.
Cheers,
Mike
Michael wrote: "Finnish socialite and spy, her home a salon for writers and artists, murdered by a shot to the head (per Wikipedia). Sounds like a fascinating story!"Well she wasn't really a spy. It seems that that rumour was the only one that actually bothered her, for all her faults she was a patriot. She wouldn't have been a very good spy, either.
I did just start another biography of a real spy. I wonder if I'll finish it within a week. Then I'll have to return it.
If I could go back to another time in history, it would be during the Napoleonic Age (end of the 18th / begin of the 19th Centuries). The world was on the move and major changes were occurring everywhere. The only thing I would take with me on this journey to the past is a large supply of deodorant and toilet paper.
Thom wrote: "If I could go back to another time in history, it would be during the Napoleonic Age (end of the 18th / begin of the 19th Centuries). The world was on the move and major changes were occurring ever..."I agree it's a fascinating era. I set my first novel in the Napoleonic Age.
For Napoleonic aficionados, I highly recommend Ridley Scott's first film, The Duellists, starring Keith Carradine and Harvey Keitel.
Thom wrote: "If I could go back to another time in history, it would be during the Napoleonic Age (end of the 18th / begin of the 19th Centuries). The world was on the move and major changes were occurring ever..."Aloha Tom:
Do you have any favorite novels set in that era?
Cheers,
Mike
I think I'd like to visit Paris in the 1920's jazz/flapper era. It sounds like it was a lot of fun!
Id wanna be in 1451 and be Vlad Tepes. Just to experience what that was like. My question is How many of you will have to Google Vlad Tepes to figure out who he is.Once you figure that out, google Katherine Bathory.
She goes by about 12 different names, and yeah Elizabeth is one of em, but Katherine is the most common. Hrmm seems that Elizabeth is the most common one these days. Katherine was the common one back when she ruled, figured it would be the same now. After googling I can't even find a reference to katherine bathory lol.
Benjamin wrote: "My question is How many of you will have to Google Vlad Tepes to figure out who he is."I thought it was one of those things that "everyone knows", well almost at least... I've known that since I was a kid. Bathory is also a familiar name to me, as is Gilles de Rais.
Erica wrote: "I think I'd like to visit Paris in the 1920's jazz/flapper era. It sounds like it was a lot of fun!"If you haven't already read it, you'd probably like Hemingway's A Moveable Feast, his memoir ofA Moveable Feast his early days as a writer in 1920's Paris.
Gary
Erica wrote: "I think I'd like to visit Paris in the 1920's jazz/flapper era. It sounds like it was a lot of fun!"
That does sound fun and they had toilet paper.
That does sound fun and they had toilet paper.
Tammy wrote: "Erica wrote: "I think I'd like to visit Paris in the 1920's jazz/flapper era. It sounds like it was a lot of fun!"That does sound fun and they had toilet paper."
Aloha Tammy:
No toilet paper in Tudor England or prehistoric America...this sounds like a better era for you. :)
Mike
I'd go back to the height of the Persian Empire, spend hours strolling through the beautiful Paradise Gardens, listening to music or the poet Rumi reading aloud his latest works.
Maggie wrote: "I'd go back to the height of the Persian Empire, spend hours strolling through the beautiful Paradise Gardens, listening to music or the poet Rumi reading aloud his latest works."Aloha Maggie:
Rumi is a sublime poet. My wife first introduced me to his work. One of her best friends in college was an Iranian woman, a devotee of Sufism, who now lives in the USA with her husband for political reasons. Complicated political and religious situation in Iran today.
I'm not sure how many good novels have been set in 13th century Persia. I did enjoy James Clavell's commercial potboiler "Whirlwind," set in 20th century Persia(Iran) -- but it's light years from Rumi.
Cheers,
Mike
Maggie wrote: "I'd go back to the height of the Persian Empire, ..."Hi, here I translate a short poem of Rumi for you:
Hey, where are you, where are you the folk going to Hajj? (To pray God)
The beloved is here, come, come;
your beloved is in your neighborhood.(Lord is so close to you)
Why are you traversing deserts so bewildered?
If you could see the faceless face of the beloved;
You're Lord, his home and Kaaba all.
(Rumi here means that God is everywhere and if you look at yourself carefully, you can see signs of God in your existence.)
You traveled this way 10 times;
one time go to the rooftop of your home.
That house (Kaaba) is delicate, you told its signs;
talk about the specifications of its Lord.
If you could see that garden, so where's a bouquet?
If you did this for God's sake, so where's a gem of life?
(Yes, as you say that house is beautiful but whether you have gained good traits from that journey or not.)
However this hardship is your treasure;
Alas, you yourself are a curtain for your treasure.
(You've done great and this hardship is worthy, but you ruin it by your devil works.)
I wouldn't want to live in the past, for all the reasons everyone else has stated.If I could go and visit, I think I'd choose 16th or 17th century England. Not for the politics, but for the ordinary people. I've researched it and I'd like to see the reality. I'd quite like to visit my ancestors, too, although one would have to beware the grandfather paradox!
I'd like to see Elizabeth I in her prime, or be there when she made her speech at Tilbury. And I'd like to see London before the Great Fire.
Next choice would be the Victorian era, especially 1870s London, as that's what I'm currently writing about.
Hamid wrote: "Maggie wrote: "I'd go back to the height of the Persian Empire, ..."Hi, here I translate a short poem of Rumi for you:
Hey, where are you, where are you the folk going to Hajj in Mecca? (To pr..."
Aloha Hamid:
Well-chosen and well done!
Cheers
Mike
Michael wrote: "...No toilet paper in Tudor England or prehistoric America...this sounds like a better era for you..."At least in pre-contact Americas they bathed, sometimes twice a day, which can't be said neither about Tudor England nor even about 1920's jazz/flapper Paris, I suspect ;-)
Zoe wrote: "Michael wrote: "...No toilet paper in Tudor England or prehistoric America...this sounds like a better era for you..."At least in pre-contact Americas they bathed, sometimes twice a day, which ca..."
Aloha Zoe:
Wow, I didn't know pre-contact Americans bathed so often. I have to laugh. My mom was from Arkansas and had six kids. When we were growing up, we only got a bath once a week (except for special occasions). It wasn't until I went away to boarding school that I encountered the joy and simple pleasure of a daily shower. :)
Cheers,
Mike
While I wouldn't want to leave our current era permanently (besides indoor plumbing and toilet paper I'd miss the Internet) there are a couple of eras I'd like to visit. The earliest one is my area (Peoria, Illinois) before the Europeans arrived. I'm just curious about that era because so little is known about it. Except that the natives called what is now Peoria "Pimiteoui."The second era I'd like to visit is post-Civil War America (1865-1900). That's quite an interesting era with all the progress that's taking place. I'd like to be an upper middle-class woman living in any of the larger cities. Or an immigrant coming into this country, via Ellis Island, settling in old New York.
Michael wrote: "... Aloha Zoe:Wow, I didn't know pre-contact Americans bathed so often. I have to laugh. My mom was from Arkansas and had six kids. When we were growing up, we only got a bath once a week (except for special occasions). It wasn't until I went away to boarding school that I encountered the joy and simple pleasure of a daily shower. :)
Cheers,
Mike ..."
lol, Mike :D
But on the serious note, one of the glaring differences between the various native cultures to the Americas and the European newcomers was the level of hygiene.
It was appalling for the local people, the smell and the lice being the part of life for the visitors.
In Mexico, for example, every middle class house (not to mention the nobles, of course :)) had a bathing room attached to their dwelling (it was a sort of a steam-sweat bath called temazcalli), and the lower classes just went out to the public baths that practically dotted every large and small city, town or village.
But of course the moment they were conquered, the baths were outlawed and various punishments ensued for using them, anyway. Apparently, it was better to go around suffering from lice and rashes and stench, than to do such immoral thing as to take your clothes off in order to bath (Mesoamericans didn't make a big deal out of being nude, so both sexes were allowed in - for Spaniards a sure evidence of temazcalli being a place to conduct local orgies ;))
As for North America, they were fanatic of cleanness as well, but by different methods or frequency, varying from region to region, the tradition of bathing developing according to the weather conditions, I suppose :-)
lol, sorry for the spontaneous lecture. Just had to defend the honor of early Americas and the lack of toilet paper :D
Zoe wrote: "Apparently, it was better to go suffer lice and rashes and stench, than to do such immoral thing as to take your clothes off in order to bath (in Mesoamerica they didn't make a big deal out of being nude, so both sexes were allowed in - for Spaniards a sure evidence of temazcalli being a place to conduct local orgies ;))"Sounds very familiar. In Finland being nude isn't really a big deal and especially among university students and friends in general mixed saunas are more or less common. (Often there is a women's turn and then mixed, sometimes men, too, have their own.) In many other countries saunas are linked to other kind of activities but that never happens in Finland. I suppose even as late as in the 19th century all people bathed together. It also seems that ruling Swedes tried to get them to abandon the sauna.
Tytti wrote: "Zoe wrote: "Apparently, it was better to go suffer lice and rashes and stench, than to do such immoral thing as to take your clothes off in order to bath (in Mesoamerica they didn't make a big deal..."Aloha Zoe and Tytti:
One of the nice things about living here in Hawaii is that people don't wear the layers of clothes you find in colder climates that stay on all the time, encouraging lice and stench. Just T-shirt, shorts and slippers. If you're going to run around with minimal clothes, the tropics beats Finland or London. :) The native Hawaiians also always had the salt-water ocean to clean and refresh their bodies.
Cheers,
Mike
Hamid wrote: "Maggie wrote: "I'd go back to the height of the Persian Empire, ..."Hi, here I translate a short poem of Rumi for you:
Hey, where are you, where are you the folk going to Hajj? (To pray God)
T..."
Thank you for translating this, he's such a beautiful writer.
Tytti wrote: "Zoe wrote: "Apparently, it was better to go suffer lice and rashes and stench, than to do such immoral thing as to take your clothes off in order to bath (in Mesoamerica they didn't make a big deal..."
I am not sure if I have read anything on Finland, I will have to change that.
I am not sure if I have read anything on Finland, I will have to change that.
hmm well I read a book about bathroom and poop in history and OMG I wouldn't want to live in any era other than the present. that book made me appreciate my toilet so much. but...... prior to reading that book I'd say i'd want to live in ancient Rome
I would love to visit the early 19th century, and see Jane Austen's London. I think it would be neat to experience a world like that.
Ancient Rome above everything else, simply because I want to visit the thermal baths! Also, Venice at times of Renaissance or later and 1920ies Paris! Best style ever, if you ask me.
Historical Fictionistas
Books mentioned in this topic
A Moveable Feast (other topics)The Paris Wife (other topics)
The Devil in Montmartre: A Mystery in Fin de Siècle Paris (other topics)
The Devil in Montmartre: A Mystery in Fin de Siècle Paris (other topics)
The Sign of the Weeping Virgin (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Olavi Paavolainen (other topics)Mika Waltari (other topics)
Aloha Melissa:
Good luck with the Parkville Bookworm! You indie store folks deserve a medal. Good luck with your Indiegogo pitch!
Cheers,
Mike