World, Writing, Wealth discussion
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What to write?
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We write for ourselves first and foremost. Then if we're lucky we find an audience that enjoys our work. At that point it is fun and gratifying to write 'for' them. You write new styles and in new genres as the muse leads you and your base may or may not like the new stuff but that's okay too. But at least always continue to give your readership what it wants with some type of regularity. You'd be crazy not to, imo. It's no secret that George R. R. Martin absolutely adores his fanbase, and they him. But few know that he prefers to write sci-fi and not dark fantasy. Yet he is faithful to his readership and gives them their games and thrones. He writes sci-fi for a much smaller contingency of fans and so he is lucky to write he loves as well as what his readers want. They don't have to be mutually exclusive. As for choosing your story based on popular appeal - I would not be able to write that way. But some thrive at it so kudos to them.
Tara wrote: You write new styles and in new genres as the muse leads you and your base may or may not like the new stuff but that's okay too. But at least always continue to give your readership what it wants with some type of regularity. You'd be crazy not to, imo."agreed.
(first, i just want to preface my forthcoming statements with this one: i am only here describing business success. furthermore, at the risk of stating the obvious, but for clarity's sake, i state that only you can judge your personal success.)
to be successful in the marketplace, i've heard that there are certain tropes and writing styles (for example, keeping the plot simple and the reading level at 8th grade for certain genre fiction) that should be adhered to.
otoh, from what i've seen in the sci-fi short fiction ezines is a high level of uniqueness and more of a cerebral bent rather than action.
so, the marketplace is fractured into these different genres (and by extension, niches).
having said that, within the specific genre/sub-genre/niche, i'd argue that w/o some amount of originality--be it in subverting tropes, complex plots, opaque or complex writing structure--then you won't be able to stand out from the pack w/o brute-force marketing. but that originality is subject to negotiation b/w the artist and her/his audience.
personally, i'm trying out different genres: horror, sci-fi, fantasy. they all have an underlying scientific basis for the world, but i'm trying to satisfy the requirements of those genres. maybe i will try others. romance is the biggest genre and perhaps a sci-fi romance (there is a history of that sub-genre. i read part of A Civil Campaign and quite liked it.
Alex G wrote: "that originality is subject to negotiation b/w the artist and her/his audience."Exactly this! Because of this, writer and reader can find experimentation, creativity and enjoyment. I also think this is how niches are born.
Smack me in the head! I joined this group because I just read Tara's post above from my Home page... and thought the name of the group was Health, Writing, World. I really gotta stop trying to speed-read on the computer.I agree to write for ourselves first. And though it really is work to publish a book, it should still be fun. I want to write what I want and how I want. Self-publishing will give me the freedom to do that. Of course it may be rejected by readers, but it will always be my story. I have a PNR trilogy I'm working on and a children's book I wrote that I'm not sure what to do with, as I have not yet researched that market. I'm sensitive and easily intimidated, so I know my first publishing experience will the stressful and painful. However, I'm also the type to keep going because I know a sense of accomplishment will be waiting for me on the other side.
Tara wrote: "We write for ourselves first and foremost." ☚ *nods*I have a buddy who's a sci-fi author at heart but writes wounded hero erotic rom because it sells better. Honestly? He doesn't even enjoy it. But money makes the world go round, eh? So, sure, I get it... *shrugs*
Me, personally? I just can't do it. Like, I actually can't.
I've never written an outline. Or even had a gameplan. Everything I write just "flows out" if that makes sense? I never even know how books are going to end exactly. And when I have some semblance of a loose ending in my head, the characters often take the story in a completely different direction as they evolve. Yeah, I'm at the mercy of my MCs *glib smirk*
Plenty of readers have asked me to write heroes with specific disabiliites but the truth of the matter is, if I'm not passionate about it then I'd get bored real quick and writing would become a tedious process. Probably a painful one, at that haha.
With that being said, I love and appreciate my readers sooo...
I've often written short stories to appease their wishes. But a novel? Or even a novella? Nah, it's not gonna happen. Those must come from a place of personal need for me. As in I need to write it, regardless of whether or not it'll be read by others.
My 2 cents.
Hugs,
Ann
Write the stories you want to tell - or someone else will.
Alex G wrote: "personally, i'm trying out different genres: horror, sci-fi, fantasy. they all have an underlying scientific basis for the world, but i'm trying to satisfy the requirements of those genres. maybe i will try others. romance is the biggest genre and perhaps a sci-fi romance (there is a history of that sub-genre. i read part of A Civil Campaign and quite liked it..."You seem to have a sharp understanding of the nuances and of the biz as a whole, Alex. With such diversified interests and lots of good ideas though, just make sure to see them coming through from the inception to publication -:)
Hi Annie!Your writing process is unconventional, but it's yours and it works. There's no set rules for writing. In my previous message, I had typed then deleted a statement that writing is a process done easier by some than others. Your stories just come out of you. I read a book in which the author states that for him, it was like opening a vein and he couldn't get the words down fast enough. Why not publish a book of short stories? I see that a lot. Not trying to push you. Just saying that someday you may develop a need to write that will take hold of you, probably by surprise. : D
Hugs, Sue
M.L. wrote: "Write the stories you want to tell - or someone else will."Great advice! Thank you! : )
*Butt burning, Quickly opening MS Word to work on my book.*
Sue (Dog Mom) wrote: "Smack me in the head! I joined this group because I just read Tara's post above from my Home page... and thought the name of the group was Health, Writing, World. I know my first publishing experience will the stressful and painful..."
Hi Sue,
Does Wealth work for you, presumably not on account of Health?
Although by mistake you are still welcome here and I hope you'll enjoy -:)
We were just discussing here, that Marie and Annie didn't think much before pulling the publishing trigger and they seem to fare very well.
I remember hesitating and drinking a cheap New Zealand vodka for courage before the bungee jump, but changed attitude and didn't give much thought before parachuting. The adrenaline and excitement were probably similar, but it saved me nerves in the prelude -:) Except for drinking vodka, I wouldn't do the jumps today though -:)
Nik wrote: "You seem to have a sharp understanding of the nuances and of the biz as a whole, Alex. With such diversified interests and lots of good ideas though, just make sure to see them coming through from the inception to publication -:)"thx, but i'm just muddling through it. had a wild idea: write a continuously updated reference book of genres for writers.
your caution is well-advised and noted.
in other news, The Smothered Earth was rejected earlier this week. so now, i'm going back to The Daitengu's Sword b/c that one is more "cerebral" (it was the one that i had originally been working on but b/c of the looming deadline, i decided that i could get The Smothered Earth into submission-quality shape faster.)
@Miss Sue: You hit the nail on the head, ma'am! Truthfully, my need to write has already taken a hold and...*embraces need lovingly*
Seriously, though, the reason I don't publish a book of shorts is 1) it doesn't evoke excitement in me (and yes, I only do things I'm excited to do) and 2) I've made the decision that those are gifts to my readers.
Keep in mind that my book was originally available online so I felt like a complete butthead pulling it down...
https://www.devotionhouse.com/queen-o...
So, yeah, all those shorts I write are humble tokens of appreciation and shall remain so :)
Hugs,
Ann
Alex G wrote: "in other news, The Smothered Earth was rejected earlier this week...."I hope you are not discouraged with these. Because it's only editor's opinion. The real baptism of fire is offering stuff to real readers and at least in my opinion how you describe your ideas they may have a broad appeal...
Hi Nik,I am currently unemployed. Though I do have health issues, "Wealth" would be very much welcomed and embraced. Ha ha. : )
I am GR friends with both Annie and Marie and am in awe of their knowledge and success. While I am also inspired by it, I am realistic. I'm one of those who finds the writing process more difficult. I don't have much confidence and get discouraged easily.
Twenty years ago I wrote two contemporary romances and tried to get published the old fashioned way. I failed, but received polite rejection letters. I pulled one novel out recently with the intention of re-editing and self-publishing. Last week I realized the story I told then is not one readers would enjoy today. So I dumped it.
Earlier this year I began writing a YA or NA (haven't decided yet) paranormal romance. I had put it aside to work on my old book, but kept grabbing my notebook to scribble more ideas for this one. I have changed over the past 20 years. Having suffered too much drama and trauma in my own life, I now prefer to read paranormal fiction. Now I want to self-publish a story of my own... and hope some readers will like it enough so I'll have the courage to do it again. : )
Sue (Dog Mom) wrote: "Last week I realized the story I told then is not one readers would enjoy today."Miss Sue, you know I love and adore you. Annnnd I don't mean to put you on the spot. But...
Why do you say this?
I'm not Stephen King, not even a prince to offer advices to fellow authors, but in my opinion by dumping your 'old' romance, you've rejected yourself-:) Why to self- censor and not give it a go? You might be surprised or disappointed or a little bit of both, but at least your story would have a life. And if worse come to worst you can always unpublish-:)
ROFLMAO!! Did I get censored? Why the heck didn't you delete the entire comment?? *giggles*
I'm just here for the warm glow of artistic exchange. I *adore* you guys!Carry on.
Awwwe, Love You too Annie. : )Annie & Nik, Please allow me to explain. At first I cried over the time I spent re-editing that book, told myself some hurtful things and called myself some nasty names. Then I took a step back from it and considered my story from a marketing point of view. When I wrote those two books, "insta-love" was very popular in contemporary romance. Today, it makes people gag and throw the book through a window. Well, I simply cannot afford to pay for all that broken glass. : )
Also, since my PNR kept pulling on me, I thought perhaps it was trying to show me this is the genre in which I really want to write. I have it all mapped out in my head. It's a 3-book series. I know how each book will end along with the major action and turning points. I want to see this through. And I believe I can do it... Maybe...
Hugs, Sue
Tara, You are too cute!Hugs, Sue
Annie, Is that your way of saying you're waiting impatiently? : DHugs, Sue
@Miss Sue: Okay, now I'm gonna sound like a complete jerk. I totally see where your thought process stems from and this is NOT to pressure you! I mean, people can do whatever they want, eh? Just wanted to share...Miss Alexa Riley's book is currently #1 on a paid Top 100 list.
This is in her blurb:
Warning: This is hot and fast insta-love that ignites the pages. It’s burning heat that combusts into an inferno of lava. Okay, that’s all the fire words I could come up with. Now insert a pun about a big hose. It’s quick, dirty, and ridiculously over the top.
Hopeful, positive hugs,
Ann
P.S. - Just FYI, I'm a fan of her writing. I'm not just creeping on her to prove a point hahahaha!!
EDIT: More intel for y'all. This book has been out less than 2 weeks, has 200 reviews on Amazon and is #18 Paid in the Kindle store. Rock on, Miss Riley!! Woohoo!!
And yes, Miss Sue. I'm always a tad impatient ^_~
When we write we toss a pebble into a pond. The pebble is ours alone. The ripples belong to our readers.
I would've published the insta-love, but I trust you know what's best for you and good luck with the PNR trilogy! It's not LinkedIn here, but maybe accountants, that we are honored to have among us, have ideas for positions? KPMG, PWC r u here?-:)
Annie, Wow, great stats for that book and author!! See, hers is a bit cheeky. Mine's too serious to pull that off. Trust me. And I can also be impatient.Tara, Well, I tossed in a boulder and made a big splash. Nobody would be happy. Ha ha.
Nik, You Super Sleugh! How'd you find me on LinkdIn? No job prospects yet.
Another reason the insta-love didn't work... and being an accountant, I find this extremely embarrassing!! I grossly miscalculated something important. And when I said I yelled at myself and called myself names, I said things I would never say to anyone else. Yeah, I'm my own worst critic.
HUGS to ALL!
Sue
Nik wrote: "I hope you are not discouraged with these. Because it's only editor's opinion. The real baptism of fire is offering stuff to real readers and at least in my opinion how you describe your ideas they may have a broad appeal..."i know that i'm attempting the fast-track traditional publishing route. so, no i'm not discouraged. my goals are to hone my writing skills, get exposure and gain credibility by being able to say i was published by one of these ezines on my very, very, very soon-to-be-published novel. i do have a rough timeline--maybe by the end of the year.
you are right that self-publishing is the ultimate baptism of fire--more so than going the traditional route--because you actually get feedback and it is real time and can be scathing, like: "your writing is shit. did you even have it edited."
hmm... you know, i was just checking out the top 100 paid under kindle bestsellers in the kindle store and i saw a lot of books with "broad appeal":
The Big Book of Orgasms: 69 Sexy Stories
Win Big: A Bad Boy Sports Romance
Prince With Benefits: A Billionaire Royal Romance
HUGE X3: A MFMM Menage Stepbrother Romance
(note: interestingly, i don't see any BDSM like 50 shades--perhaps that is out of fashion now?)
perhaps, it would be worthwhile to go for this broad appeal rather than the significantly fewer supernatural and sci-fi were there in the same top 100:
A Shade of Vampire 30: A Game of Risk
The Atlantis Gene
hunger games
harry potter
Here's a question. Is the children's book market, a book someone would read to a child, over-saturated? I ask because I've had a children's story rolling around in my head for years. I finally wrote it out and began illustrating it. Nothing groundbreaking. Just cute and sweet. Would I be putting something out there that would just get lost in the shuffle? All opinions are appreciated.Thank you, Sue
I would suggest glancing at the top ten and the bottom ten titles of the top 100 children's books sales fharts. That will show you what is trending. The bottom ten will show you if the trend is strong or if a new trend is emerging. Also: http://cbiclubhouse.com/clubhouse/aut...
Thank you very much, Tara. I will do that.
Alex G wrote: "so, no i'm not discouraged. my goals are to hone my writing skills, get exposure and gain credibility by being able to say i was published by one of these ezines on my very, very, very soon-to-be-published novel. i do have a rough timeline--maybe by the end of the year...."Cool. Looking forward to greet you with a debut!
Yeah, probably if you look at dry numbers, then romances sell the most, but sci-fi by any means is a huge genre, inferior to no other, so I'd say go with whatever you feel most passionate about. Particularly, a novel (sort of a sci-fi techno-thriller?) that you've mentioned earlier, sounds interesting
Sue (Dog Mom) wrote: "Here's a question. Is the children's book market, a book someone would read to a child, over-saturated? I ask because I've had a children's story rolling around in my head for years. I finally wrot..."Hi Sue,
The reality is that everything's oversaturated, yet some (not many) new books in each genre always go to the top, while many others get scarce attention. Another truth is - you can't predict a success or a failure of a book, nor of a drawing or a sculpture. The art is rarely bankable or businessplanable. Children books is a huge market, yet probably 95% of it are governed by 100 top sellers and another 5% encompass thousands/millions of other titles. Not too promising, I know, however if you already have something written and you believe it's cute and sweet, I see no reason to be daunted by saturation, thirst or lack thereof. Bringing it to a marketable level and giving it a chance in my opinion is better than retreating -:)
@Mr Nik: I have to agree with you on this one...The problem with following trends is that we will always be one step behind. Unless you wanna write a dozen different books and keep em stashed in your back pocket for the "perfect" timing? XD
For reals, though, this is the same reason why 95% of hard-working folks lose money investing. And just to clarify, I consider low-risk, safe investments to be losing money. Obviously, it's still better than stuffing dollar bills under your mattress (Duh, Ann!!) However, the price of bread has risen by 68% since 2000. So unless you've stopped eating sammiches... *shrugs*
But, yeah, most people buy high and sell low. Same-same with anything, really. That's just human nature, eh?
Not totally sure where I'm going with this. Heh. Okay, bye.
Hugs,
Ann
Annie - NO! I'll never stop eating "sammiches." Never. We've given up a lot in the past few years, but I have my limits. Must have bread and milk in this house at all times... and dog food. : DHugs, Sue
Alex G wrote: "The Big Book of Orgasms: 69 Sexy Stories
Win Big: A Bad Boy Sports Romance
Prince With Benefits: A Billionaire Royal Romance
HUGE X3: A MFMM Menage Stepbrother Romance"
*laughs nervously* Interesting list of books you have there. FWIW, I keep seeing the stepbrother romance posted to every Kindle facebook group I am a part of. Spamming may not be the worst idea after all.
On a different note, a couple days ago, my book made it to #4 in the paid Kindle Store for U.S. historical fiction and has been staying strong in the single digits for that category for about a month now. When I first published and saw how popular the paranormal and fantasy books were, I was worried that maybe my sort of book was not in demand anymore, and nearly got too discouraged to publish altogether! I guess you never know until you try :).
@Miss Marie: Yessss! Thank you for sharing your wickedly wonderful ranking!! This is what I looooove to see! Woot!!!!
That's right, Marie! You never know. Look at all the haunted house movies being made lately. I think that subject will always be popular. : )
Marie wrote: "On a different note, a couple days ago, my book made it to #4 in the paid Kindle Store for U.S. historical fiction and has been staying strong in the single digits for that category for about a month now..."Very well done! Upwards and upwards!
The studios become closer -:)
My mom is deceased since 1981, she died from diabetes complications. She was only thirty eight years old when she died. I was in the house/apartment when she died
Eric wrote: "My mom is deceased since 1981, she died from diabetes complications. She was only thirty eight years old when she died. I was in the house/apartment when she died"That's a very sad story, Eric, and I regret to hear that. How is it connected with the topic though?
i was trying to see if i should write it as a book
I see.... That's something very personal, so I'll probably better refrain from providing any advice
Nik wrote: "I see.... That's something very personal, so I'll probably better refrain from providing any advice"please i'd welcome some advice
Although more than 35 years passed since, it might have left a trauma and cause disturbance. Don't think it's worthy, because writing entails submersion to this or that degree into the reality that an author describes, reliving the circumstances... I don't know how this can influence you and I don't want to trespass onto shrink's field. I don't want to dissuade you nor to encourage. That's something you need to decide for yourself and/or consult with appropriate specialists. But maybe writing something else and dedicating it to your late mother may be a worthy deed?
Don't write a certain way because you think this is what the readers want. Write for yourself, the kinds of stories in your heart, and that you would love to read. And if you write it, they will come (the readers). If my books entertain and brings certain emotions to a reader's heart, even though I wrote it my way, then all the hard work is worth it.Those who know me, know how much I love Prince. One thing I always admired about him is that he wrote his songs his way, and didn't care if anyone liked them or not. Well, we know how that turned out:) I learned a good lesson from that.
Write what you think you can make a good finished whatever. As the gasbag Polonius said, "To thine own self be true."
World, Writing, Wealth
Books mentioned in this topic
Big Book of Orgasms: 69 Sexy Stories (other topics)Win Big (other topics)
Prince with Benefits (other topics)
Huge X3 (other topics)
A Game of Risk (other topics)
More...
Should one write down the craziest idea s/he has and made a story out of it or would a typical frustrated love story with or without some twist or a slightly unusual scenery do the trick?
Should we pursue what represents us the most, hoping readers would like it, or maybe take into account readers' preferences and tastes?
And do we write for ourselves or the audience after all?