Reading Proust's In Search of Lost Time in 2014 discussion
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Week ending 09/20: The Captive, to page 277 / location 42180
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message 51:
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Renato
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Sep 17, 2014 04:36AM
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Wow! I updated my iPad to iOS8 and my Kindle for iOS to Version 4.5 and now can copy and paste to email and other Apps. Also you can select foreign words and phrases in the text and hit a translate version. Also with a new "smart" type it learns your typing style and vocabulary! I just typed "ve" and, in addition to version and several other words, it suggested "Verdurin"! For my inaugural Proust quote I have selected:"I had to rejoin Elstir. A mirror showed me my reflection: in addition to the disaster of not having been introduced, I noticed that my tie was crooked and that my hair, which was too long, was sticking out from under my hat."
Renato, I was reviewing the sentence you quoted that I referenced. In a comment on the translation; I'm not sure which translation you used but I note two differences between the version you quoted and the Moncrieff version I memorized:a) The word "busy" in the first clause is "occupied" in Moncrieff. I find that a subtle but unfortunate change for reasons to tedious to type out.
b) The second change I have a major problem with; the sentence ends with "the other person present with her in the room." In Moncrieff rather than "present" it is translated "left alone." The significance of this is that the phrase "left alone" is also used in the main clause in the middle (putting the main clause in the middle of longer sentences is frequent in Proust). Repetition is a rhetorical device used to highlight or indicate significance. Unfortunately, modern translators often eliminate repetition to "suit modern reading taste for "variety." I saw this a lot when I was teaching Bible Study. The original languages (Hebrew especially) used a lot of repetition which is often eliminated to the detriment of understanding meaning. Anyway, back to Proust, the "aloneness" of the narrator (and every individual) is a major theme in "In Search...". In 75 words, the only phrase repeated in Moncrieff is "left alone." When I noticed that, it was a key to unraveling a lot more in the sentence and, for me, seeing the sentence as a "portrait in miniture" of the novel. For reasons such as this, I mourn the "modernization" of texts. I'll get off my soap box now.
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This is the info I have on my e-book:
(Translator: C K Scott Moncrieff)
Published: 1925
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Sorry, yes, Renato is quoting Moncrieff. So I guess i mourn the fact that I don't know which translation I memorized! Its not M/K/E which uses "occupied" in the first phrase and "present" in the last, and reads:"Weary, resigned, occupied for several hours still with its immemorial task, the grey day stitched its shimmering needlework of light and shade, and it saddened me to think that I was to be left alone with a thing that knew me no more than would a seamstress who, installed by the window so as to see better while she finishes her work, pays no attention to the person present with her in the room."
Well, I humbly retract the "left alone" and repetition part of my comment. Sorry. Here is the french version, which clearly uses "left alone" in the middle and "present" at the end:
"Lasse, résignée, occupée pour plusieurs heures encore à sa tâche immémoriale, la grise journée filait sa passementerie de nacre et je m’attristais de penser que j’allais rester seul en tête à tête avec elle qui ne me connaissait pas plus qu’une ouvrière qui, installée près de la fenêtre pour voir plus clair en faisant sa besogne, ne s’occupe nullement de la personne présente dans la chambre." (II, 646)
As I first mentioned, I came across the sentence in Malcolm Bowie's article "Proust and the Art of Brevity" in the "Cambridge Companion to Proust". Bowie spends a couple of pages talking about that sentence. A couple of interesting quotes from Bowie's article:
"It tells a self- contained story about the production and subsequent decay of metaphor. This fragment is of course richly connected to the rest of the novel. The sequestered uncommunicating couple, the working woman and the idling man, and the meteorological determinism that weighs down upon meetings and failed meetings between lovers are all familiar motifs: the Narrator’s mother and grandmother, and Françoise, who is nearby, have all been involved in scenes like this, and Dutch interiors on this mode of quiet co- presence between human agents have a significant role in the book. What the sentence does, however, is rein these allusions and filiations into a narrative that is complete in itself."
"Loosen your grip for a moment upon a metaphor, the Narrator suggests, and you will be mercilessly reabsorbed into the everyday world. A single sentence stages the whole process of making metaphors and losing them; and in so doing it lays claim to its own singularity, its own coherence and its own temporal rhythm. It is both a link in a greater concatenated plot and a plot in itself. It is both an element in the novel’s overall design and an outlier or erratic block occupying the outer margins of that design."
This copy and paste function in Kindle could turn me into a quoting madman! lol
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A dangerous request Renato, but I will try to honor it in moderation.
This is the Penguin translation, which I don't care for:"Weary, resigned, with several hours still of its immemorial task to do, the gray day stitched away at its pearly braidwork, and I was filled with the gloomy thought that I was to remain alone in close contact with it, and with no more degree of acquaintance between us than I would have had with a seamstress sitting by the window to work in a better light and taking absolutely no notice of the person there with her in the room."
I'm clueless where I saw a version with to "left alone" in it.
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Could your missing translation be the Kilmartin one? Or by whoever wrote the article in the companion book?
I checked the Cambridge book, the quote there was not the one I'm looking for. Not that important. Meanwhile, I've turned another corner in my post-Proustian preambulation. I got the Great Courses 48 Video Lectures on the history of European Art. Really well done. I jumped first Lecture 33 about 17th Century Dutch Art to see what the professor had to say about Vermeer. When he talked about Vermeer being unique in that we can observe his painting but they are inaccessible to us, I got Proustian goosebumps! Again the Proust theme, we can observe from without but can never truely "know."
Renato wrote: "I reread some bits, specially where the vendors were screaming outside!"@2:45
A take-off of the street-cries:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpwUnf...
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Could the narrator actually be female?
That would certainly be an intriguing plot possibility Jonathan; but no, thats not in the cards.
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@2:45
A take-off of the street-cries:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpwUnf..."
Thank you, Marcelita! This definitely helped my mind to paint a better picture of what was going on.
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What an interesting thought. What made you come up with that?
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What an interesting thought. What made you come up with that?"
Well, it was re-reading the end bit of last week's reading when Charlus calls the narrator and Brichot a couple of 'naughty girls', which I realise is just Charlus being camp, but it made me just wonder if there was a bit of gender-confusion going on on Proust's side. This could explain why the narrator wasn't named and why it's only Albertine who calls him by a male name, i.e. a playful male name. It could also explain why there doesn't seem to be any penetrative sex between them and why the narrator seems to be able to spot every lesbian in existence BUT I don't really believe this and Dave has said that's on the wrong track as well. There are enough examples within the text that point to the narrator being definitely male anyway...I was just letting my imagination run wild.
BTW one of my favourite books, The Wasp Factory plays around with these themes.
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@2:45
A take-off of the street-cries:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpwUnf..."
Thanks Marcelita, that's a fun look at La Belle Époque.
Google translate has failed me again. *shocker*What is Morel yelling at the girl in Jupien's shop? "grand pied de grue" - High heels? I'm losing something in translation that is some kind of insult, I think. Can anyone help me?
I use the web Babylon translation site Sunny. It gives me "large foot of crane". A "Bigbird" insult perhaps? Humor/slang is hard to get in translation. This is where a well footnoted edition would help.
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great slut: the original expression is 'grand pied-de-grue'. This does not appear in any dictionary, including those of slang and low language, as an insult that might be addressed to a woman, though 'une grue' is a prostitute. 'Faire le pied de grue' is to wait, to be kept waiting or hanging about, but that is plainly not the meaning here. 'Slut' is an approximation.The note in my MKE version restates this, but mentions that Grue means 'crane' and by analogy (!?) 'prostitute' and that
Faire le pied de grue = "To kick one's heels," "to stand around for a long time" - like a crane standing on one leg, or a street-walker in search of custom. Morel's use of the term is grammatically nonsensical.Maybe it's fair to say that it's an untranslatable phrase but he's basically calling her a slut!
Hummm, Morel calling somebody a slut? Sort of the pot calling the kettle black!
Jonathan wrote: "Hi y'all. This is where the Penguin editions are particularly good as they have lots of notes. So, the Penguin edition translates it in the text as great slut and has the following note: great slut..."Yes, you are correct.
We spoke about this today in Boston.
Think of the "ladies of the evening" standing for a long time, in doorways...on one foot.
They look like cranes....sort of.
Mon Dieu! It is Baroness Putbus' maid impatiently waiting for our hopeful Narrator!
An interesting ensemble, complete with tassels.
Jonathan wrote: "Brichot mentions that the Verdurin's former house was partially burnt down; is that the first time that's been mentioned? I wonder what happened? It's probably not relevant, but you never know with..."I'm still playing catch-up with the group, and I've only read through week-ending 9/20. BUT... do we ever find out what happened to partially burn down the Verdurin's former house?
No Sunny, not that I recall. I believe it only serves as a reason to move. I find this aspect of Proust quite "lifelike". Sometimes people, places or things are mention that seem like they will be important but never turn up again. Other times persons, places, or things are mentioned in passing and become a major element of the story later. Proust makes it difficult to "read" the future.
Dave wrote: "No Sunny, not just hat I recall. I believe it only serves as a reason to move. I find this aspect of Proust quite "lifelike". Sometimes people, places or things are mention that seem like they will..."Interesting. OK, well I'll try not to 'obsess' over it. LOL!
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Now that I think about it, the fire might have a symbolic meaning. We can discuss that at the end perhaps.
Dave wrote: "Yes, Bergotte's death is very moving."The section on Bergotte's decline and death so closely mirrors the author's own it was painful to read. Tears!
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Renato wrote: "Yes, Dwayne. And Marcelita said he was working on that section before he died... even more moving..."Ugh ... I totally thought that might be the case. Brutal!
Reading Proust's In Search of Lost Time in 2014
Books mentioned in this topic
The Wasp Factory (other topics)Death with Interruptions (other topics)
