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July 2016: Biography Memoir
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Discussion for Between the World and Me by Coates
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1. Why did Coates use manhood as an overlying theme? Would it have been less, equally, or more effective for him to incorporate the black female struggle as well into this text?."I just started listening to this but it is so short that I am about 1/3 of the way through. My comments reflect my thoughts to this point....
Coates is a man. He is writing to his son. I think it is extremely appropriate that manhood is the overlying theme. I do not think it takes away from the struggles of black females, but I would assume (as I am white) that male and female struggles are different (as my struggles are different than those of white men).
If he would have included the black female struggle, the book would not have that same personal connection, that same reflection on his life. It would transform into a research book and, quite honestly, it would not ring authentic.
Plus, I always think questions like this are a bit of a double standard. Does anyone ever ask, "Why didn't Maya Angelou write of the black man's struggle? Why didn't Toni Morrison?"
I don't think a single book has to be everything to everyone.
I completely agree with you. His book is a letter to his son about his experience being a black male. He can't write about the experience of being black and female because it's not an experience he has lived. That said, he does talk about larger social and historical issues that applicable to both men and women and yet his book is clearly from the lens of masculinity/maleness. I find it interesting that he talks about the body and others having power over the body yet the notion of black women's bodies is not part of his dialogue.
The lack didn't bother me for the reasons you (Nicole) mentioned above but it was an interesting omission.
About being a double standard, people don't ask that of the women authors because the norm has always been that the experience of men is at the forefront. Maya Angelou and Toni Morrison brought women's issues to the forefront of racial discussions (in fiction). When 90% is from the male perspective, the question about why didn't they write about the man's struggle becomes irrelevant (in my opinion).
I completely agree with you about Angelou and Morrison breaking boundaries in literature, and I think literature still suffers from a lack of female perspective and views. But I do not think the solution to that is to question why men are not writing about women, but for us to work to promote female authors who are the only ones who can truly say what the female -- of any ethnicity -- experience truly is.
Nicole wrote: But I do not think the solution to that is to question why men are not writing about women, but for us to work to promote female authors who are the only ones who can truly say what the female -- of any ethnicity -- experience truly isI agree that we shouldn't necessarily criticize men for not writing about women. And I largely agree about that when it comes to this book too since it was a book about his personal experience and was written to his son. Therefore, what is relevant to them is lived experience of being black males.
However to play devil's advocate, Coates makes claims to the experience of being black in America and at times seems to speak for all black people, both men and women but he speaks from a very masculine place (which obviously makes sense). Should he speak to the experience of black women? no, I don't think he should but it's an interesting choice to ignore (for the most part) the intersectionality of race and gender. He treads on the line between personal narrative to his son and social discourse to the reader. And where he veers into social discourse, the absence of the female experience was striking to me. So on the one hand, I think the question is silly considering it's a memoir written to his son but on the other hand it's a reasonable question because it's also more than a memoir.
These are all excellent points. And he definitely speaks passionately about social discourse. But I still feel like it is a memoir about how HE personally feels about racial discourse. Yes, I think his views are shared by many, and he has excellent insight that speaks to the heart of today's often contentious culture, but (at least to this point) he has not made an attempt to incorporate anything beyond his personal views with historical context.
And he doesn't just exclude women. His view is very specific: black man in Baltimore. I do not feel he necessarily can speak for black men in the rural south, black men in northern states, or even black men in other metropolitan areas (though imagine substantial similarities among Baltimore, Chicago, LA, etc.)
These do not take away from the power of his words, but I think makes them more powerful because they are specific to him and yet ring so true for so many...even if not for everyone.
Nicole wrote:And he doesn't just exclude women. His view is very specific: black man in Baltimore. I do not feel he necessarily can speak for black men in the rural south, black men in northern states, or even black men in other metropolitan areasThat is a good point. I don't think I would answer question 1 differently than you and in fact think that what makes this book powerful is the element that it is a personal experience of race thus inherently about one person's perspective.
But Coates seems to be writing this for more than his son (maybe for all young black men? this is an interesting question for later!) which is why I think he comes close to crossing over the memoir genre into academic essay. I found that at times it was very emotional and personally touching but at other times in the book it read like an academic essay (particularly part 1 where he describes his educational/professional development) that has a very specific sociopolitical message.
When I was in graduate school I took a course on feminist theories and approaches to psychology. It was a fascinating course because we spent a great amount of time on discussing intersectionality of identity (not just gender and race but a whole host of identities). Many of the black feminists we read discussed how "blackness" as a racial construct is almost always discussed and deconstructed in ways that are blind to gender with the end result being that racial struggles are always described from a male perspective as the norm. I will try and see if I can find the article and if I do, will post it here. I'm probably butchering their argument because I read it at least 5 years ago.
Anyway, bottom line, I agree with you. This was a memoir not an academic essay. But it did raise (in my mind) questions about how this book would have been different if written by a black woman to her daughter.
Nicole wrote: "P.S. I love this discussion already"and me too :)
Jen wrote: "When I was in graduate school I took a course on feminist theories and approaches to psychology. It was a fascinating course because we spent a great amount of time on discussing intersectionality of identity (not just gender and race but a whole host of identities). Many of the black feminists we read discussed how "blackness" as a racial construct is almost always discussed and deconstructed in ways that are blind to gender with the end result being that racial struggles are always described from a male perspective as the norm. I will try and see if I can find the article and if I do, will post it here. I'm probably butchering their argument because I read it at least 5 years ago...."I would love to read that! You have raised an extremely good point that I had not thought of before: racial struggles are often told from the man's perspective.
And while I do not want the man to tell me about women struggles (see: definition of mansplaining at its worst) I would definitely be on board for a black woman's letter to her daughter.
I think it would be incredibly interesting for that black woman to be from Baltimore and the same general age as Coates and from the same neighborhood. I think the comparisons would be interesting and, I am guessing, pretty different.
will be back to read comments, but posting this for those interested. It's how I first heard about the bookhttp://www.cc.com/shows/the-daily-sho...
I think that the "revolution"will come from black men. What is to come will require a very masculine energy IMHO. They will be fighting again, one way or another.
Maya Angelou did write a book that was a letter to her daughter (although it is symbolic since she only had a son...“I gave birth to one child, a son, but I have thousands of daughters. You are Black and White, Jewish and Muslim, Asian, Spanish speaking, Native Americans and Aleut. You are fat and thin and pretty and plain, gay and straight, educated and unlettered, and I am speaking to you all. Here is my offering to you.”)Letter to My Daughter
Cora wrote: "Maya Angelou did write a book that was a letter to her daughter (although it is symbolic since she only had a son...“I gave birth to one child, a son, but I have thousands of daughters. You are Bla..."Interesting, but sounds like a slightly different focus than the purpose of the Coates letter to his son? Thanks for posting the link!
I'm going to go out of order for the next question to post a question that was raised by Anita's review. I'll post all questions above in my first post so people can choose to respond to any of the ones listed (and now how to find them):3. What are the different aspects of the American Dream, or “the Dream,” as Coates calls it, that are discussed in this literature? How are they problematic?
So "the Dream" ... Having read Malcolm X makes a big difference about how I view the dream. I believe that the Malcolm side of the fence views "the dream" everybody should want the same things and behave the same way, in other words ... everybody should be white, and preferably middle class.
What Coates wants is for it to be OK to be black. That's his dream. If a person wants to name their child LaChiniqua because that's a black culture thing, it shouldn't be subject to ridicule but it kind of is because it's also a stereotype and stereotypes can be funny and are often ridicule worthy. It's a fine line.
Black people want to retain black culture, and the dream wants them to assimilate.
Jesse Williams speech at the BET awards stated it pretty clearly ...
"....realizing that a system built to divide and impoverish and destroy us cannot stand if we do."
Full (POWERFUL) speech here:
http://time.com/4383516/jesse-william...
(he said all of it better than I could, it's worth a read)
So abolish the "dream", and stand up for true equality. To be equal as a black person born and raised in this country but fighting from birth to participate in a system which automatically divides them because of the color of their skin.
(quote from Anita's review, may be spoiler)
Coates is callous to the fears and safety concerns of police, despises the American dream, and offers no hope to his son.
---- I actually don't agree about no hope to his son. The first step in solving a problem is identifying it. This book isn't actually a letter to his son, he said that was just a literary device. This is the way they talk in their house all the time. He's teaching his son that it is not just OK but GOOD to be black, but he's certainly not sugar-coating it.
I believe that our police system is as corrupt as our political system. I'm sure he cares about the humans as individuals, but the system is flawed, and needs to change. As Jesse Williams succinctly put it "we know that police somehow manage to deescalate, disarm and not kill white people everyday."
His thesis - - white American power and success was built on the backs of black bodies - - is true. However, most Americans alive today did not impose that institution and many are not related to anyone who imposed it. Looking backward all the time provides no way to move forward. Looking backward in anger may be cathartic, but it is pointless.
----- If black people in this country weren't still prejudiced against, I would agree with you. But they are. You live near Baltimore, you more than anybody have exposure to what it is like to be black in this country. When you read Malcolm X you will get a better understanding of why black people are in the state they are today. Why they do drugs, why they riot. It's like we are holding their heads underwater and telling them to SWIM. They want to swim, but they can't breathe.
Passionate about this topic and it's helpful for me to write this out as it helps me crystallize my thoughts. So happy so many of you are reading this book this month, and I really hope more of you will read Malcolm X.
Nicole wrote: "So "the Dream" ... Having read Malcolm X makes a big difference about how I view the dream. I believe that the Malcolm side of the fence views "the dream" everybody should want the same things an..."
yes! I haven't read Malcolm X but I have read a lot of African American literature and essays through my work as a psychologist. I really need to read Malcolm X.
I am with you in that I didn't see this as a book that offers no hope and you raise an interesting point that it was a literary device and not a real letter to his son.
The American Dream suggests that hard work is all that is required to be successful and have upward mobility. That dream assumes no barriers, no corrupt system that keeps certain groups away from the means of escaping their situation, and ignores the historical context of slavery. It is a dream that uses individual examples and annecdotes as support for possibility of the dream rather than large datasets.
I'd like to propose an experiment for those of you who feel like they don't have any racial bias. Harvard researchers have created a way to examine implicit bias through a very clever experiment. It's called the implicit assumptions test (I use it in my suicide research to examine patient's assumptions about suicide). Here is the link:
https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit...
Go to the website and then select the test on race and see what the results tell you. Their published data on this test are interesting in the way that most people perceive white and black faces. Were you surprised by your results?
Nicole wrote: "So "the Dream" ... Having read Malcolm X makes a big difference about how I view the dream. I believe that the Malcolm side of the fence views "the dream" everybody should want the same things an..."
First, I want to say that I think your post is extremely interesting and insightful and well, actually clear. These are issues I really, really struggle with. Sometimes I think maybe I am racist and that's the bottom line. I don't feel that way in my heart or about individual people, and I actually do a lot of work in the Baltimore community. But perhaps I still am . . .because I do feel that the Dream is in fact worthy and attainable. Maybe I'm just deluded.
Perhaps I need to read the Malcolm X book before speaking further, but one thing you said was especially eye opening to me:
Black people want to retain black culture, and the dream wants them to assimilate.
I never thought about it this way. And to be honest, my initial reaction is both - - oh my god, yes, I can see how that is true. But another side of me absolutely doesn't understand it because I have rejected much of my own cultural heritage in favor of assimilation . . .and maybe that's why I can't really relate. Because my personal choice has been so different, and it has worked for me. I've also rejected many behavioral choices that were modeled by my parents in favor of the ones held up often by American society, and that too has worked for me.
Unfortunately though, there can be aspects of culture that propel you forward and others that hold you back, and I am unsure about the concept of wholesale embracing of elements that don't help your offspring. However, I guess when so much has been taken from you, it might be more important to hold onto these elements of your identity, to not be subsumed into the American culture at large. I think I can see that.
Great and fascinating post. I need to read the speech and the Malcolm X book.
So much to think about.
Jen wrote: "I'd like to propose an experiment for those of you who feel like they don't have any racial bias. Harvard researchers have created a way to examine implicit bias through a very clever experiment..."Lol, well I'm not very good at following instructions apparently, and I took a test, but not the one about race . . .and found I had a strong preference form some fantastical group of imaginary people.
Need to give that another go. Unfortunately maybe I have now biased the results . . .since I see how the test worked? Or can I take another one regardless.
Ha ha. No, you can take another one. Even if you know how it works, it's hard to fake answers
Jen wrote: "Ha ha. No, you can take another one. Even if you know how it works, it's hard to fake answers"Ok, hopefully I can figure out how to take the correct one later . . .I need to rein in my own enthusiasm and pay attention to what I'm doing.
What's really funny is my preference was for the group of people that they associated with all these negative things. My dark side coming out?
thank goodness ... Your data suggest little to no automatic preference between African American and European American.
The book and this discussion are really interesting to me in relation to the parallels in Australian society and our indigenous people. I'm busy parenting the little people but will add more later this evening. Lots to think about!
Anita wrote: "Jen wrote: "Ha ha. No, you can take another one. Even if you know how it works, it's hard to fake answers"Ok, hopefully I can figure out how to take the correct one later . . .I need to rein in m..."
The implicit assumptions test results don't necessarily imply that you like negative things or racism. Results will show you whether you automatically associate two things together. So it doesn't mean you necessarily prefer one category over another but it shows how closely you associate two things in your mind. It measures processing time. So they pair two stimuli together (faces and words is one example) then they will measure how fast you press the button when you pair certain things together. Speed of processing is in indication of how closely two things are associated in your mind. It doesn't necessarily say you like one over the other but rather how closely linked you find two stimuli.
I don't remember the exact words but it came out that I had no preference between the two people groups. I live in the midwest, small town. I think it is a little different here from Chicago or Baltimore. We have changed a lot in the past few years with Somali, Hispanic, and Asian. 40% of our school children do not speak English at home.
I read the book fast. My initial responses were hard to describe. The book felt angry to me. I saw it as a book from a father to a son. I didn't miss the black woman issue and agree that it didn't need to be included here but I did note that he included aspects of what it feels to be a mother of sons. I also don't think that black culture is the same across the board and that what is felt by a black man, with a good job in Baltimore is different than another black man. I also think that for me anyway, a Caucasian trying to understand the inner city black experience might be considered presumptuous.
I have to say that I am outraged by these last two shootings. I was angry about ones in the past, but I don't know if I am more aware of it because this book is fresh in my mind or what. As much as it pains me, I can understand an unfortunate shooting occasionally by police officers. They put their lives on the line every day and do not have time to weigh every decision.
But this is different. This is the continued killing of young black men. Black men who are often complying with the police at the time. Black men who even if they are not complying do not have a firearm and can be subdued with sublethal force.
Seriously, what is going on?!
Obviously I do not think that the vast majority of police officers as individuals are bad or corrupt or would do something like this. But their lesser brethren are reflecting poorly on the institution and the system needs to be fixed.
Words can't even begin to describe how I feel. I watched the video of the second shooting this morning with the 4 year old girl watching as her mother's boyfriend died. I sobbed in my office. I am angry, saddened, and sick to my stomach.
I cannot bring myself to watch the video yet. I am at Logan and sobbing in public sounds like a bad idea. I got teary at her quotes and interviews.
This is sad and one a Minnesota officer.
Nicole wrote: "As much as it pains me, I can understand an unfortunate shooting occasionally by police officers. They put their lives on the line every day and do not have time to weigh every decision. .."I have always given police the benefit of the doubt, believing they truly felt threatened and also recognizing that they see a lot of badness on a regular basis that may make it difficult to approach each situation dispassionately. I believe in the work that they do.
But, I find both of these recent videos to be completely and utterly distressing.
In both of these situations, I didn't have any sense that the targeted men were not complying or at least they were surely in the control of the officers at hand.
I cannot possibly imagine the justification for either of these shootings based on the videos. And even if I really stretch my brain, I can't fathom the Baton Rouge one in any way, shape, or form - - I mean where was the threat coming from that would provoke that reaction?
Maybe Coates is right to feel hopeless. It looks like a pretty justifiable feeling at the moment.
Anita wrote: Maybe Coates is right to feel hopeless. It looks like a pretty justifiable feeling at the moment. .."
RIGHT! and then multiply that times his lifetime of feeling that way. Something big is going to happen, to quote The Big Lebowski ... "This aggression will not stand."
I just watch both the videos. I'm dumbfounded.
WhoopsI I didn't realize there was more than one thread. Don't know if I put my thoughts in the right place. Do I add my review here as well? I'll just go for it, and therefore join both discussions. Friends, I deliberately have stayed away from what looks like an incredibly enticing discussion, until I could finish and review the book and put my own thoughts to keyboard. But after I post this on the ongoing discussion, I look forward to hearing and engaging in what I've missed. Let me start by saying that I am extremely glad I read this book, and the synchronistic timing of the recent horrific shootings has been uncanny. However, I did not necessarily like it. It made me uncomfortable, and I believe it was supposed to have that effect. I have to take responsibility for my lens, as Coats does for his. I am part of the white majority, and I cannot pretend to know what it is like to be African American at the time and era of Coats and his experience. I am sensitive that I write, think, and live with white privilege. I can say however, that as Coats describes, we only believe we are white, most of us are other things not easily or readily discerned. I have never been comfortable with the Caucasian box on forms and disclosures. I have always thought there should be a box for Semitic (Jewish), although Jews have never been considered an academic or racial minority, not due to our suffering and oppression in history, but due to our success. But as many other "white people" feel, I am not just white, I too have an ethnic and a history. I do not proclaim myself to have the same history and experiences as this author. Just to announce I have a lens. One that does in fact have white privilege, but it is my lens just the same. I thought about how Coats feels that society has worked for the destruction of black bodies, I equate this in Jewish history and lineage as (not all) some society, or societies working towards the destruction of our souls and spirits. But I move on…
I too have been writing a long letter to my children about what I think about the world, societal events. I have thrown my essays stories, my opinions, our family history, moral lessons, and letters and thoughts, and I recognize my aims have been different. Also, that I highly doubt much of it will ever get read. I am up to 800 pages, and I pity my future daughters in laws, as I deeply hope someone will go through it to extract what feels essential or useful. But my ongoing letter/gift to my children has the opposite tone. It offers hope, strength, resilience, and a chance to empower and make a difference. The essay I am writing now, is about choosing joy, choosing one's attitude to reflect how you want to best live, and making a difference in the world with that intention. Both this book and the recent events is a fascinating parallel to what I feel I have stood for. But again, i am lucky and blessed for my lens. Let me move onto the authors lens. Coates struggles with this, and I see quotes in his book, where he really tries to understand what it is he wants to communicate to his son, but who he wants his son to be, different from himself. On page 24, he states… "I have no desire to make you tough… I was always somehow aware of the price. I…. should have been concerned with more beautiful things." This sentiment is echoed often, that he as a journalist and as a black man coming of age, had a stand to tell, but this is not necessarily what he hopes for his son. He sees his son entering a struggle, oddly enough he named him Struggle, and wishes to offer wisdom and insight, and "consciousness." But I do think he wishes with some kind of hope for his son greater than what the world has been to him. I loved on page 88 when he wrote, "I always had people….. (and described how his community felt, and gave, and loved). You need to know that I was loved. Whatever my lack of religious feeling, I have always loved my people, and that broad love is directly related to the specific love I feel for you." There is no question he loves his wife and son, and in this way, despite the divides we two, we all are bound by that universality, despite our lenses.
More thoughts, before I move on…..Page 107, "I am sorry I cannot make it okay… You were born into a race where the wind is at your heels and the hounds at your back…. I want to offer you wisdom, consciousness for the struggle." Loved the portion about learning to ask questions and use writing, and the natural dive into journalism. Loved the Mecca. (I went to Brandeis for undergraduate and had a Mecca too!). Loved the part about the trip to Paris, which broadened them all. "I wanted you to have your own life, apart from fear. I am wounded…. marked by old codes…. We are entering our last years together, and I wish I had been softer with you. Your mother had to teach me how to love you, how to kiss you and tell you I love you each night." (Page 125).
Now for more of my thoughts. I thought Coates point of view was deservedly his own, but steeped in such anger and lack of hope. I think as a therapist, about the scores of people I work with who deal with immense trauma in their lives, background, cores, that have become a part of their bodies and experiences. One could say there is no hope, no goodness, no chance for connection, no dream of resilience, of safety. But these women (and men) climb out of their traumas daily and hope for a better world. We are constantly working towards this, and I feel diametrically opposed to believing there is not hope for a better experience. Believing in the good. I am not pollyannish - nor naive. I have seen more trauma than most people can imagine, and yet I still think that we can be part of the solution instead of the problem. I still believe every day, that our hope, our care, our mattering and our stand for that makes a difference. That every day, we have to hold onto our dream, and begin to bring it into reality. I felt sad for how narrow the margins for possibility were, how negatively defining, how thin and stale the air in this book.
And then partway through…. The shootings. What can I say. I caught the slightest drift of the discussion, but largely stayed away. But just a hair enough to say that I believe that there is police violence. I also trust and am grateful for the police. I believe that awful violent mistakes have occurred, we all feel sad and sorry for the evils in our world that occur all the time, and everyday. I am just not prepared to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I also believe in good, and I believe that sometimes, we have to be smart and think about our protection. I am the rare true "Independent," who eschews muslim racial profiling, racial profiling of any kind, and prejudice. I also think we have to be smart, and not naive. We have to be critical thinkers and not sacrifice our safety with our naiveté. I am also terrified about Isis, and other kinds of evils out there, and I neither want to prejudge others, nor do I want to be killed for my compassion and naiveté. There has to be a sound in between where we prevent terrorism without terrorizing. Some people will be upset, feel racially profiled and stereotyped. But we cannot easily separate good police from bad police, not can we separate good and bad muslims, and we need to be thinking of people with the singularity that Coates suggests. That each person could be as easily good as they are might be bad. These events that happen in the world are complicated, and I do not necessarily always side with what appears to be the victim. I am not pro-palestinian, and I think these situations are often more complicated and nuances than our media would have them appear. I cannot help but just feel sad for all of our current violence in America, and rather than assign blame, or even tease out the complexity of emotions and responsibility, I think we have to start with a few things. Hope, Universality, the knowledge of evil, power, responsibility, accountability, and consciousness. I am quite honestly afraid to say more. We exist in sad and ugly times. But there is also beauty in this world, in every day, and in every moment. I think the trick is learning how to hold those side by side and create a narration that keeps us loving, growing, and moving forward.
I see Coates as trying to make a specific point about race, racial disparities and the struggle of being black in America. He is not saying his son can't be happy, experience love, experience life, grow, etc. it is in the context of his main point that the discussion of hope is problematic and a discussion which is inherently privileged.I am also a therapist and believe in the power and importance of hope in terms of personal growth and wellbeing. I too work with traumatized people. However, Coates claims (and I think he is correct) that those who focus on hope in the context of the black experience are missing the point. In therapy we can tell traumatized people that that things will be better. They are usually not going to experience retraumatization every time they leave their house. Can we tell our young black men that some day in their life times they will be able to walk freely without the fear of their skin color causing them problems? In my opinion, hope in the context of racism, diverts attention away from action and in many ways minimizes the actual pain of continual, day to day experience of black people. If you believe that things will be equal one day, you will be less likely to struggle for it in the present.
I don't think Coates is saying his son can't have a good and happy life full of love. I think he is telling him that racial inequality is not something to hope for. It's not something that will go away. It will be a struggle every day of his life and he can't expect people with privilege (the dreamers) to change that for him.
As "white" people we have the luxury to talk about hope (in the context of equality) because we don't have to live the daily experience of discrimination. Saying that maybe one day things will be better or we should focus on the positive is possible because we aren't the ones having to deal with equality in the present.
Amy wrote: "But we cannot easily separate good police from bad police,"We very easily can ... they are on video. We simply QUIT letting them get away with murder, which is what continues to happen.
I'm sorry --- I do disagree with you. Hope is not enough. Our thoughts and prayers are the same as nothing. As I said in an earlier post, we encourage the black community to rise above, "live the dream" while we hold their heads underwater, and tell them to swim. They have so many strikes against them.
Also, with regard to our need for "safety" remember that we are being told by the media to be scared. We are conditioned to feel fear, because as long as we fear ... we are dependent. We excuse police murders because we might need them someday? No thanks.
You said: We have to be critical thinkers and not sacrifice our safety with our naiveté.
What if our safety is a fiction we've been conditioned to believe in? AND - what if you didn't have that safety ... what if you knew that the people who were supposed to protect you also might kill you. How can you find the hope in that? Talk about a reason to feel hopeless.
You said: I believe that awful violent mistakes have occurred
these are not mistakes, they are deliberate action.
Jen wrote: "in the context of his main point that the discussion of hope is problematic and a discussion which is inherently privileged..."
YES! well stated
Jen, I thought what you wrote was excellently stated. You phrased it extremely well, better than I was able to do. I thank you for being so on point! Yucky day in our area of the world....
I thought (whether true or not, not verified) that this seems like a very good representation of our discussionhttps://www.facebook.com/BroBice/post...
I finished listening to the audio of this yesterday and I'm still not sure how to articulate some of my feelings. Since it was read by the author, it was a great audio, however, I think I might also try to read this because I lost a bit of the continuity.I like to think that I'm not prejudice but I do think that I am a bit naive or optimistic (I suppose I am the dreamers that he is referring to). I grew up in New Orleans which is a city with a lot of racial tension. In fact, one reason that I didn't try to move back to NO after I graduated from college was that I did feel like living there made me more prejudice.
If I had to put a finger on what was making me feel that way I became resentful of how the black community felt that they were owed some type of entitlement due to the historical context of slavery ---- slavery was a horrible institution, but I'm not sure that I believe that white American power was built on slavery. It may have contributed to some successes, but it was focused in the South and the Northern states were certainly as successful. As Nicole D pointed out, looking backward is not helping the situation and focusing on something that cannot be changed.
Back to the book, I did like the narrative structure of a letter to his son. I thought it was powerful and his use of repeated imagery and phrasing was almost poetic (it reminded me a bit of The Things They Carried). I also felt a bit like Anita that Coates is trying to paint a realistic picture for his son, but I didn't find the picture particularly hopeful that anything could/would change. I agree that he wasn't saying that his son couldn't live a full and happy life, but that prejudice will always exist.
I can't even express the heartbreak of hearing the news of the shootings. I have not watched the videos but certainly having those events take place while reading this book made it especially hard to ignore many of Coates points about the violence against the black bodies.
Here's another question for discussion that gets to some of the recent discussion in other people's posts.Rather than categorizing people as either good or bad in two distinct categories, it is clear that Coates speaks of humans as having pure and dark intentions and actions simultaneously. It is not the bad white people vs the good black people. That being said, how does Coates speak of humanity and its complexities? Give examples.
Play Book Tag
Books mentioned in this topic
The Things They Carried (other topics)Letter to My Daughter (other topics)
I thought I'd get a thread started for the discussion since so many of us are reading this book this month. Below is a link to some discussion questions I found online. There are 11 questions and I can post 1-2 every three days here so people can choose to answer them or not.
https://www.cohpa.ucf.edu/media/11313...
Also, please feel free to add any other thoughts, general impressions, and add your questions here too.
Here are the list of questions (I will add more every 2-3 days):
1. Why did Coates use manhood as an overlying theme? Would it have been less, equally, or more effective for him to incorporate the black female struggle as well into this text?
2. Can this book also be seen as a plea for education reform? When Coates says that “the schools were not concerned with curiosity,” but rather with “compliance,” what does that tell us about how the educational institution in America perpetuates
racial injustice?
3. What are the different aspects of the American Dream, or “the Dream,” as Coates calls it, that are discussed in this literature? How are they problematic?