The Wind in the Willows - Ch 1-3

[Rosemarie, Moderator]

There are 919 editions of WITW listed on goodreads. I stopped looking after the first couple of hundreds.

[Frances, Moderator]

Rosemarie wrote: "I wish I knew Urdu. I worked at a school as a substitute teacher where many of the kids spoke Urdu. Maybe I don't, on the other hand, because then I might have known what they were saying about me."

I'm sure it was all good things, Ms. Rosemarie!

[Rosemarie, Moderator]

I can only hope. They were in middle school.

[Tracey]

I loved the description of summer and what the animals remembered about it around a warm hearth. And the description of Mole in the Wild Wood was exactly like I remember when I was lost in a wood; Grahame must have had a similar experience to write it so clearly. Wonderfully descriptive writing.

[Harm]

Rosemarie wrote: "I wonder how many languages Wind in the Willows has been translated into, and if they were to keep the alliteration and rhythm of the title."

I am reading the Dutch translation and it is called "De wind in de wilgen". This is a literal translation of the English title and has the same alliteration and rhythm.

[Rosemarie, Moderator]

That sounds lovely, Harm. I am curious to know the names of the main animals. Sometimes they are a direct translation, at other times they are not.

[Harm]

Rosemarie wrote: "Harm, what are the names of the main animals, that is, are they a direct translation of the English names?"

Yes, they are the Dutch translations of the animals.

Mole - Mol
Rat - Rat
Mr. Toad - Meneer Pad
Mr. Badger - Meneer Das

[Rosemarie, Moderator]

Thank you.

[Everyman]

Rosemarie wrote: "I can only hope. They were in middle school."

Oh dear. In my experience, the vast majority of middle school students are incapable of saying anything nice about their teachers. Elementary students mostly love their teachers, and high school students tend to respect the good ones, but middle schoolers -- ugh!

(Speaks a man who used to work as an administrator in a k-12 school and came into contact with all the students and teachers.)

[Rosemarie, Moderator]

I generally had a good time with the majority of them, but there was the occasional student that drove me crazy. Overall, I enjoyed my 19 years as a substitute teacher. The last year I taught I was a new grandma and decided that was a good time to retire.
If I were to compare the students to characters in WITW, there were quite a few moles, an equal number of Rattys, both of which I enjoyed. Unfortunately, there were also some Toads-both boys and girls.

[Lily]

@105Harm wrote: "Rosemarie wrote: "I wonder how many languages Wind in the Willows has been translated into, and if they were to keep the alliteration and rhythm of the title."

I am reading the Dutch translation a..."

You may be interested to know that the original title was "Wind in the Reeds," without the lovely alliteration we enjoy.

"The original title for the book was The Wind in the Reeds, but it was too close to W.B. Yeats 1899 poetry collection, The Wind Among the Reeds. Graham Robertson warned Grahame that the title was too close a match. Nevertheless, Methuen advertised the book as The Wind Among the Reeds up until the week before the book went to press.

"When Algernon Methuen realized the titles were similar, he changed Grahame's to The Wind in the Willows at the last moment but retained the cover illustration of Pan, Mole, and Rat among the reeds. A Scribner's 1908 fall fiction advertisement also announced the book as The Wind in the Reeds." Op. cit., p29.

[Lily]

@17Amy wrote: "I kind of see the river as a character. It's like the Mississippi in Huckleberry Finn in that it's the lifeblood of the community. But this is a children's story, so maybe I'm reading too much into..."

Amy -- the writer of the annotated notes in my Norton edition says you are not: "...The river is a crucial character in the narrative, and here Grahame gives it a personality. Other great English novels that use a river as a character are The Mill on the Floss (1860), by George Eliot, and Our Mutual Friend (1865), by Charles Dickens.

"In Greek mythology, spirits--usually female, called nymphs--inhabit all forms of nature. River nymphs, like the playmates Grahame describes here, are called naiads." Op. cit., p7

From the story itself: "..Never in his life had he seen a river before--this sleek, sinuous, full-bodied animal, chasing and chuckling, gripping things with a gurgle and leaving them with a laugh, to fling itself on fresh playmates that shook themselves free, and were caught and held again. All was a-shake and a-shiver--glints and gleams and sparkles, rustle and swirl, chatter and bubble..." p6

Not only is the river a character, but in align with the story, an animal character!

[Lily]

@42Linda wrote: "Mary Lou wrote: "but I do wonder about Mole. As Rochelle mentioned, moles have very limited eyesight. I wonder that Grahame hasn't (yet?) acknowledged that. As that's one of the more commonly known..."

Linda, Mary Lou -- Alastair Grahame had serious eye/sight disabilities. The Norton Annotated edition has an extended note on the subject (#9, pp 6-7). I'll only quote this: "Kenneth Grahame's letter to Dr. Collins reveals how involved he was in his son's care at that early part of his life. Perhaps sight was bestowed on Mr. Mole not out of denial but out of the deep wish for Alastair to gain full sight."

I am way behind all the rest of you. I've had this copy of WitW for a number of years, but am using this discussion to motivate me to finally read it. I have only read "The River Bank" and some of its notes so far. In terms of straight enjoying the story, I would probably prefer just a nicely illustrated version -- dealing with the annotations, while rewarding, is distracting. (I may look for a library copy.) While familiar with some of the story and characters, I am quite certain this is a first read for me.

[Sara]

The river is definitely a character in the story and it is the living thing that binds all the animals together.

Thank you for the information about the name change. How fortunate that the name was too close to another work, the name we have is one of its strongest draws.

[Linda]

Lily wrote: "Linda, Mary Lou -- Alastair Grahame had serious eye/sight disabilities. The Norton Annotated edition has an extended note on the subject (#9, pp 6-7). I'll only quote this: "Kenneth Grahame's letter to Dr. Collins reveals how involved he was in his son's care at that early part of his life. Perhaps sight was bestowed on Mr. Mole not out of denial but out of the deep wish for Alastair to gain full sight.""

Oh, that's interesting, Lily. Thank you for posting that!

I noticed that in the edition I'm reading, Mole actually has little glasses on. I don't know who the illustrator is, though. The sketches are pretty rough.

[Linda2]

Linda wrote: "Lily wrote: "Linda, Mary Lou -- Alastair Grahame had serious eye/sight disabilities. The Norton Annotated edition has an extended note on the subject (#9, pp 6-7). I'll only quote this: "Kenneth Gr..."

Check the front page and last page, also the inside bottom of the front flap.

[Linda]

Rochelle wrote: "Check the front page and last page, also the back bottom of the front flap."

Ah...totally missed it. It's Ernest Shepard, right there on the title page. And now think I'm remembering that I've actually noted the illustrator from the particular edition already. Oh my memory... !

ETA: Oh, no. How embarrassing. Now I'm looking at the wrong book! Ernest Shepard is the one in my book at home that I'm reading (Mole does not have glasses). The edition that had Mole with glasses on was a little mass market paperback in the lending library at work. I was quickly flipping through it the other day and noticed Mole with glasses, but didn't see the illustrator. I'll have to take time to try looking again...

[Mary Lou]

Lily wrote: "Perhaps sight was bestowed on Mr. Mole not out of denial but out of the deep wish for Alastair to gain full sight."

That is interesting. I hope Alistair saw that Mole's eyesight didn't keep him from boldly exploring his world, and encouraged Alistair to do the same.

I'm with you, Sara -- so glad that the title was changed. Aside from the alliteration, the image of a breeze through the willows is such an evocative one. I don't get the same thing from "wind among the reeds".

[Rosemarie, Moderator]

Reeds is such a hard word, willows is so soft. The change in title was a lucky chance( serendipity?).

[Everyman]

Sara wrote: "The river is definitely a character in the story and it is the living thing that binds all the animals together."

But with very different relationships with it, I think.

For Rat and Otter, it's their natural habitat.

For Mole, it's a learned pleasure, but one it takes him awhile to become comfortable with.

For Toad, although he is the only character (so far, at least) with a boathouse, his attempts on the river are near disaster, and he is clearly much more comfortable on the land (hence his caravan, motor car, train travel, and maybe more to come) than the water.

I think this difference between Toad and the other characters is perhaps part of why I like Toad least of all the characters. The river, as we see, is alive, active, teeming with activity and life in its own right, not just for those who live on and with it. A road is dead, barren, without any life in it. Those who love the river and those who love the road are, it seems to me, separated by a wide gulf, and I prefer the former.

[Abigail]

Interesting contrast between the river and the road! Hadn’t thought of that. But it makes sense—water as the source of life and vitality, the road as epitome of sterile modernity.

I don’t enjoy Toad because it’s painful to see a self-deceptive addict in action.

[Lily]

Mary Lou wrote: "That is interesting. I hope Alistair saw that Mole's eyesight didn't keep him from boldly exploring his world, and encouraged Alistair to do the same. ..."

The story of Alistair's life, unfortunately, is sad. A short version of it is in his father's Wiki entry. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth...

[Lily]

Abigail wrote: "I don’t enjoy Toad because it’s painful to see a self-deceptive addict in action...."

The notes refer to him as "manic". The text itself describes his manipulation of Rat via Mole -- Toad could judge whom he'd entice. He is based on a successful journalist friend who also eventually financially overextended himself -- my book is upstairs, may add a detail or two tomorrow. (I'm afraid I saw parallels to known public figures. )

But, Toad also apparently shares traits with Alstair, in his headstrong moments. Grahame seems to have had the ability to take traits from several acquaintances and weave them into a unique or more extreme character for his stories.

[Linda2]

Lily wrote: "...But, Toad also apparently shares traits with Alstair, in his headstrong moments. Grahame seems to have had the ability to take traits from several acquaintances and weave them into a unique or more extreme character for his stories. "

As do many good writers. One reason why this book has much subtlety not caught by children.

[Lily]

Lily wrote: "He [Toad] is based on a successful journalist friend who also eventually financially overextended himself ..."

"Grahame worked out some of his frustrations by writing caricatures of his wealthy contemporaries. According to Peter Green, some of Toad's color was supplied by Horatio Bottomley, the 'hearty, flamboyant, gabby vulgarian' (Kenneth Grahame, A Biography, 242)" Op. cit., p39

"...Bottomley had a flat in London, but as his fortune grew he expanded a small cottage in East Sussex until it became a rambling mansion able to accommodate twenty to thirty guests for weekend parties. Called The Dicker, Bottomley added to the house and estate by gradually buying surrounding land and creating ornamental lakes, gardens, and tennis courts. Eight gardeners tended the grounds, and there was a large household staff to look after Bottomley, his wife, and their daughter. Bottomley was despised by the gentry and most of his fellow MPs for his unsavory business transactions. Though he twice declared bankruptcy, he always lived pretentiously and beyond his means. (Alan Hyman, The Rise and Fall of Horatio Bottomley: The Biography of a Swindler....). Ibid., pp39-40.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horatio...

Here is a link for the annotated edition to which I refer:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6...

I can't find an "add book" link -- Annie Gauger leads to "no books found" and TAWitW to another book.

[Lori, Moderator]

This is why I love this group. I would have never thought to look for this kind of information if I was reading alone!

[Lily]

Everyman wrote: "Sara wrote: "The river is definitely a character in the story and it is the living thing that binds all the animals together."

But with very different relationships with it, I think....

....Those who love the river and those who love the road are, it seems to me, separated by a wide gulf, and I prefer the former."

In her final line of acknowledgements, editor Annie Gauger wrote: "...Perhaps I am incapable of letting go of a ten-year-old project, or maybe what I really want to do is to daily ponder that brown god--that sleek, sinuous, full-bodied animal. The river."

[Linda2]

In 1909, Theodore Roosevelt, then US president, wrote to Grahame to tell him that he had “read it [The Wind in the Willows] and reread it, and have come to accept the characters as old friends.” --Wikipedia