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So I stumbled upon this and....wow...
Those are some silly comments. I really like the cover. One person commented that it doesn't look photoshopped, which it doesn't... which is what I like most about it.I had someone call the entire concept of my book "gay", as if he could tear down my work with a single word. There are trolls out there and I feel sad for them. You wrote a book and put it out there. I celebrate people like us.
Dylan wrote: "Those are some silly comments. I really like the cover. One person commented that it doesn't look photoshopped, which it doesn't... which is what I like most about it.
I had someone call the entir..."
The cover isn't photoshopped--actually how they thought it looked like is kind of what it is. Was surprised they noticed haha. Thank you for the compliment on the cover :D
I feel the same way on petty criticism. We did something and put it out there. That is *huge*. It is definitely something we should all celebrate.
As for your book concept, I looked it over and it looks quite funny. Just like you said, people think they can tear down a person's pride and work with a few words, but they can't. We poured our life into it--it'll take more than a few silly insults to knock it down.
I had someone call the entir..."
The cover isn't photoshopped--actually how they thought it looked like is kind of what it is. Was surprised they noticed haha. Thank you for the compliment on the cover :D
I feel the same way on petty criticism. We did something and put it out there. That is *huge*. It is definitely something we should all celebrate.
As for your book concept, I looked it over and it looks quite funny. Just like you said, people think they can tear down a person's pride and work with a few words, but they can't. We poured our life into it--it'll take more than a few silly insults to knock it down.
Look at it as free publicity. Also, it is possible to learn something from people who comment on what we do, even when we see things differently. Your instincts will help you see the difference between someone who is just being mean and someone who is being constructive but just lacks tact. Congrats on publishing your book and I wish you much success :)
Yeah, we've had to shut down threads where folks here have posted these types of sites here for a laugh. This is the reason we shut them down. Mean spirited and snarky isn't humor.
Mod
What I find so bizarre is that twenty, thirty years ago NO ONE CARED ABOUT COVERS. I remember books rarely, if ever, had fantastic artwork on them. Most were very plain. We've become a much more visual society where book covers are, at least to most people, as important as the content. I don't get it.
Keep your chin up, shrug and know that these people are probably rather insecure about a good number of things in their own lives, so they must seek out something to laugh at.*
*This might be why I'm a humorist. I have no other talent than to mock.
Mod
Here is a story about this.
A few years ago I found this site when I was researching book cover design and...
I thought it was great fun. I participated.
I even posted a thread about it here telling people to check it out and make sure to see if their cover was on there... it was basically my first post on goodreads. I changed it when asked. I had to change a lot of posts back in the day, I was a bit of a nusiance to the moderators for a good month to be honest. I stopped that though, thank the Maker. Silly CB. Needed a smack.
They had a sister site, I justified with myself, to help authors. It was just harmless cover fun.
Anyways, about a year ago a post came up and something happened. It was a cover I regognized. It was a cover from someone I had talked to before. It was this cover. I felt ill, and horrible. I got smacked. I neded it.
I went back to that site and never posted a mean word again. I did nothing but post the positives of covers seen, what they did right. It lasted about a month until it became another way to make fun of others, so i stopped going to it. Even the sister cover helping site is a bit toxoc at times. I still go to that to help, but more often just tell people to get their egos in check.
So... uh... sorry.
I dont go there anymore.
I fought the good fight for a bit. My experience there is either avoid it, or take it in stride. Go on there and say proudly, yes this is mine. I love it! Thank you for the higher google ranking and search terms! Have a great day!
With millions of books being published annually and so many of them ending up in the bargain bin covers have to do a great deal of work to pull in a reader's attention. I can't say I'm happy about this but this is our reality. Thinking back to my childhood I remember poring over my mother's classics and no, I can not remember any of their covers.
Here's something else to keep in mind: a cover might catch my eye... might... but a gorgeous cover won't keep me reading a book that isn't interesting to me. A while back, there was a rather outspoken author ranting and raving about weeding out the 'trash books' and 'terrible covers.' Well, said author had paid a professional to paint original artwork for their book and sure, the art was nice. Three pages in, I stopped reading because, well, art is subjective and that's all I will say on the subject. If people buy a book based in the cover and find that the contents of the book are not to their liking, well, in my humble opinion, they got what they deserve for paying attention to only the *least* descriptive element of presentation. Some of the best books I've read have had covers that others have trashed.
Wow..I'd like to say I'm shocked a site like this exists but given all I've come to learn about how trolls in this industry I'm not. I agree Sarah, someone has to have a lot of time on their hands and no life to try and take away someone's spirit about their work.
Dwayne wrote: "What I find so bizarre is that twenty, thirty years ago NO ONE CARED ABOUT COVERS. I remember books rarely, if ever, had fantastic artwork on them. Most were very plain. We've become a much more visual society where book covers are, at least to most people, as important as the content. I don't get it."
Oh my gods, yes!! We've entered an age where everything is Photoshopped and slick stock footage mashups. I kind of can't stand it! I want my covers to look unique and unlike anyone else's, but then I feel like they don't fit into what's poplar these days, and I wonder if it's hurting my potential sales. I've used my good artist friends to do the covers for my Shiva XIV covers, and they're unique and organic paintings (with only slight digital touch ups) and I love them. But I worry people expect the typical stock photos/digital look, and they don't give my books a chance. It's so frustrating. There was a time that none of that mattered. When I read Hermann Hesse books as a teen, I didn't give a crap what was on the covers. Lol It's always nice when the cover represents the story well, but seriously, I hardly care! The story is what matters to me, always will be.
Christina wrote: " If people buy a book based in the cover and find that the contents of the book are not to their liking, well, in my humble opinion, they got what they deserve for paying attention to only the *least* descriptive element of presentation. Some of the best books I've read have had covers that others have trashed. "
Hear hear!!
I'll admit that daft book covers are a guilty pleasure of mine, which I share on my Twitter account, but I tend to reserve it for books where a) the author is long dead (pulpy covers for Austen, Orwell etc.) or b) the concept of the book is so absurd (e.g. human/Muppet erotica) that it was presumably tongue in cheek to begin with. If I've ever offended anyone by this, I apologise.It isn't nice to be on the receiving end of criticism. One of my book covers has received constant bad press - an otherwise positive review has described it as "terrible" - but until I'm earning far more money than I am now, I can't afford to replace it. I'd like to think that people stay for the storyline rather than the cover art.
Other than the technical stuff it's all subjective so we should try to keep perspective, remember why we write, continue to improve and learn from legitimate criticism when it's offered.
I'm one of those people that doesn't care about book covers, I never even look at them, they have no bearing on the story (for me others may be different), and that's why I'm reading a book. I would never criticise a cover as they're completely subjective, just like writing, what one person loves someone else doesn't For me if I'm choosing a book on the internet its all about the blurb, and if I'm in a real bookstore it's all about the book's ending (I'm one of those people who reads the end of a book first!) because how a book ends is what decides for me if I like a particular author enough to want to read more of their books, looking at the cover to make a decision on a book to try never even enters my mind
How much people seem to care about covers though sometimes makes me feel as though I'm missing something, maybe they're more important than I see them as being.
I once found my name and book mentioned on a random forum while googling my title to see if there were new reviews. They literally dedicated paragraphs to ripping at my book over the promo text, and commented that they shouldn't expect much due to my foreign sounding name, so obviously English isn't my first language. I had a good laugh at that, mainly because it is my first language and I also majored in it in college.
The point is, the Internet is filled with people who think snark and cynicism is the same as intelligence. They do have opinions, and opinions do count. But as one teach I had in middle school said, let's see them do it better.
I mean, they're literally judging a book by its cover. Why let people like that bother you?
*teacher I had. Late night thumb typing isn't always smart.
My hide isn't thick as it should be when it comes to this stuff.As for book covers--beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Nice for getting a potential reader's attention, but where do we go from there?
Checking out the synopsis, thumbing through the book to get a feel for it, or reading the intro of the ebook version before making a decision.
Since we're all readers at heart, substance rules!
There are sites which crit covers and give some positive feedback or say what doesn't work, but these are sites where the author has voluntarily submitted the cover e.g. Joel Friedlander's The Book Designer. That can be interesting to see what works better and what pitfalls there might be when designing covers. But it is very unkind to post covers just to make nasty comments about them.
Dwayne wrote: "Yeah, sites like that... those that can, can. Those that can't, mock.*
What I find so bizarre is that twenty, thirty years ago NO ONE CARED ABOUT COVERS. I remember books rarely, if ever, had fant..."
Exactly! I read a lot of older/classic books so the covers are very simple and plain. Just the title and author's name. Nothing exciting about it. Things are way more visual now, for better and for worse.
What I find so bizarre is that twenty, thirty years ago NO ONE CARED ABOUT COVERS. I remember books rarely, if ever, had fant..."
Exactly! I read a lot of older/classic books so the covers are very simple and plain. Just the title and author's name. Nothing exciting about it. Things are way more visual now, for better and for worse.
C.B. wrote: "...
Here is a story about this.
A few years ago I found this site when I was researching book cover design and...
I thought it was great fun. I participated.
I even posted a thread about it here..."
Definitely take something like this in stride! That is what I'm trying to do. Thanks :D
Here is a story about this.
A few years ago I found this site when I was researching book cover design and...
I thought it was great fun. I participated.
I even posted a thread about it here..."
Definitely take something like this in stride! That is what I'm trying to do. Thanks :D
Christina wrote: "Here's something else to keep in mind: a cover might catch my eye... might... but a gorgeous cover won't keep me reading a book that isn't interesting to me. A while back, there was a rather outspo..."
Oh yeah. It is funny--the thing that means the least is what we judge initially/put the most stock in.
Oh yeah. It is funny--the thing that means the least is what we judge initially/put the most stock in.
Ahmed wrote: "I once found my name and book mentioned on a random forum while googling my title to see if there were new reviews. They literally dedicated paragraphs to ripping at my book over the promo text, an..."
Oh wow, that is kind of hilarious. People can be so confident in their cynical opinions.
Oh wow, that is kind of hilarious. People can be so confident in their cynical opinions.
Pam wrote: "There are sites which crit covers and give some positive feedback or say what doesn't work, but these are sites where the author has voluntarily submitted the cover e.g. Joel Friedlander's The Book..."
I've actually submitted the same cover to that website. They actually said nice things about it, with criticism of course, but that was kind of the point. I don't have a problem with criticism, just when ripping something is the point the criticism loses all value.
I've actually submitted the same cover to that website. They actually said nice things about it, with criticism of course, but that was kind of the point. I don't have a problem with criticism, just when ripping something is the point the criticism loses all value.
Thanks for all these kind words and stories! Really helped me out :)
I find I don't really look at covers when I'm choosing a book. I like an intriguing title. If that catches my eye I read the blurb. That's the thing that then either hooks me in or doesn't.
Dwayne wrote: "What I find so bizarre is that twenty, thirty years ago NO ONE CARED ABOUT COVERS. I remember books rarely, if ever, had fant..."Indeed! I still have treasured old books that only have the title on the cover and no artwork. It's all style over substance these days.
I've learned a lot about book covers since I began making them for my books a couple of years ago. I thought one of my first creations was a great cover--until someone commented that the author seemed lazy with the cover. Yeah, I get it.
Haha...Covers...sighBack in my old days when I went to the library often, there were no images on the covers for most of the books. Either way, we had to pull it out of the shelf to see it. It was all about the title. If we'd see an intriguing one, we'd pick it up and check it out.
Nowadays, all is more visual. As everyone else said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But, an ugly cover can also attract the person who deemed it so. I've picked up books that, in my mind, had the ugliest cover I had seen, but it did the job, I took a few minutes to learn more about it.
And please, forget the myth that all traditional published books have nice covers. They definitely don't! But then again, that's according to my taste.
Isn't it fun to live in a world where people don't like the same things? If not for that, every guy would woo the same girl and vice versa. Would be a load shit of lonely souls. (And that's not counting all the cockfights that it would bring. ) /ducks :P
It's so much easier to tear something down than to create something. That's why there are so many trolls online!
It's horrible that people have nothing better to do than to tear apart someone else's hard work. As if we independent authors didn't already carry enough self-doubt on our shoulders!
Sarah wrote: "I was googling my own book, just to see how I was ranking, what came up and so on, and I found this website: http://lousybookcovers.com/?p=322627Part of me is like, well, at least they were passi..."
Oh my goodness! I had no idea such a site existed and whatever for??? So rude and insulting - I feel it's all creative and like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I like the bright colors of your cover - it's eye catching!
I didn't know this site existed either! What's more, I searched for one of my book covers, and it's actually on this site! I was too chicken to read the comments though, maybe I'll look at them one day. You were brave for reading yours, Sarah.
The best thing any of us can do is ignore and not bring attention to it. Keep writing amazing stories and maybe, just maybe, one day, we'll be able to bring people back into the mindset that the story is what matters.
Mod
I read the comments for you and I will let you know, they are not bad at all.
Everyone complained about... how your moon is actually round, and not egged shaped, so they couldn't actually make fun of it.
No point in even reading them. :)
V.M. wrote: "As has been mentioned, Snark isn't humour. Snark is really just a way for people to prop themselves up by taking potshots at others/art that can't hit back. It's a self-boosting behaviour that give..."This is so true. I remember, though, when I first did my own cover for one of my books and asked other writers what they thought, and they had said it was sort of amateurish, which I balked at, of course, lol. But in the end it was true and I dished out the money and replaced it (Black 21). You can see all the editions I had before it, but the one with the girl with hands over her eyes is the one they said. But that site is just horrible and to crucify someone like that as a means of power...wow. I'm so sorry you had to go through that. Just plain mean. *hugs*
C.B. wrote: "S.L. wrote: "I didn't know this site existed either! What's more, I searched for one of my book covers, and it's actually on this site! I was too chicken to read the comments though, maybe I'll loo..."Okay, phew! *wipes forehead* Thanks, C.B.!
Another thing to keep in mind: No one, no matter what their skillset, degree, experience, etc, is the be all end all authority on anything and don't let them tell you otherwise. Personal experience: My first cover of the first book I self published was a drawing that I did of a fleur de lis. As far as fleur de lis go, it wasn't too bad, but I wasn't sure it was right, so I asked a forum. Nearly everyone who replied did so in the negative, telling me that I should look at other paranormal romance covers for inspiration. Well, the only problem was, I hadn't written a PNR. Nothing in my blurb or chosen categories would have suggested PNR except the word vampire.
Had I done as suggested and pasted a generic torso behind a picture of a girl with fangs with some sort of gothicky font, yes, I probably would have attracted a large body of readers looking for a sexy vampire romp. And then I would have had a slew of one star reviews from people who were severely disappointed in my lack of sexy times.
I did eventually change my cover, oddly enough, because my soft glowy rounded edge fleur de lis was making people expect sexy vampire times. ;P
To my mind, the quality of a book cover has absolutely no bearing on the quality of the book. Anyone (Trad publishers included) can throw money at a project and get a wonderful, slick book cover, but I do find that a lot of these covers, while they may have been professionally done, do not stand out from one another. Sometimes, the one that stands out is the one that is just plain different, and Sarah's is exactly that.At the end of the day, the cover may be the thing that initially grabs a persons attention, for positive or negative reasons, but it will be the title, blurb, and the first few pages that will ultimately make the sale.
As for the little troll people, let them troll. As many teachers are fond of saying, it's their time their wasting.
Don't let them waste yours.
Christina wrote: "Had I done as suggested and pasted a generic torso behind a picture of a girl with fangs with some sort of gothicky font, yes, I probably would have attracted a large body of readers"Ha ha, yes, exactly. Cliche sells, so sometimes looking the same as everything else sells.
Though I suppose it depends what you're selling.
Ah... besides grammar, here's another reason I'm terrified to publish. I lost my job last New Year's Eve. For three years prior, my husband was unemployed. Now he has a temp job with crap pay. We are broke. I can't afford a service to make my book cover, so I'm doing it myself. I think I take good pictures and I like to paint and draw. I'll come up with something. The haters won't like it, but I will have done my best. Unfortunately, like the bad reviews from the grammar police, I've seen a few bad reviews citing a bad cover.Cover art is art. Someone even stated it here. Art / beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Plus, haters and going to hate, no matter what you do. I'm very thin skinned and able to accept polite criticism, but cannot handle cruel and snide remarks. After I click on the Publish buttons for KDP and CreateSpace, I'll be living under the couch for a week!
One shouldn't judge a book by its cover, but one often does. I personally think it's always worth it to hire a professional cover designer (unless you are one yourself) because whether we like it or not, or agree with it or not, people do judge our work by its cover in terms of whether or not they will take a second look at it/buy it. So the cover is an investment. (I feel even more strongly about this when it comes to hiring an editor- and in that case regardless of whether or not you are one yourself.)That said, I love that in this group we don't bash covers, and we don't get high and mighty about design and we just do our best to help each other come up with the best results we have the means and drive to come by. That's what SIA is great for: lots of help, very little judgement.
I don't think sites that are devoted to bashing covers are helpful because they don't take into account that someone has put a lot of work into something and had the proverbial cojones to put it in front of the world. That said, one can learn a great deal by looking at the kinds of covers that are being bashed and taking into account the elements of covers that aren't working. No one should internalize the mean comments that others make, but if one has a thick enough skin one can learn a lot from the overall critique.
As to the OP, I'm very sorry that you were subjected to this. This is precisely why these kinds of sites aren't useful as whole. They are hurtful instead and that doesn't help anyone. Hugs!
Sue (Dog Mom) wrote: "Ah... besides grammar, here's another reason I'm terrified to publish. I lost my job last New Year's Eve. For three years prior, my husband was unemployed. Now he has a temp job with crap pay. We a..."Sue.
Don't sweat it. My first book cover was, and still is, a picture I drew myself. It isn't the greatest cover in the world. But it's all mine. And it cost me nowt.
Yes you might get slated by the covers police, but they aren't God. In fact they are mostly people who don't have the balls to do anything except gripe at others.
You do have to grow a bit of extra skin if you are going to publish on a shoestring.
But it don't dent the satisfaction.
Sue (Dog Mom) wrote: "Ah... besides grammar, here's another reason I'm terrified to publish. I lost my job last New Year's Eve. For three years prior, my husband was unemployed. Now he has a temp job with crap pay. We a..."Jusy like the grammar police, the cover police have no jurisdiction here. In fact, they have less than the grammar police because while there are certain standards of readability to ahere to (unless you are James Joyce), cover art has no such basic rules.
And if nothing else, once you have a cover concept, you have this group as a resource. Plenty of folks are willing to give constructive criticism and plenty of mods are willing to delete those who forget their manners.
Jane and Christina,Thank you both for your encouraging advice. : )
Hmm. I feel some thoughtless rambling coming on... *smirks**takes deep breath**prepares to vomit nonsense*
While I absolutely believe that content is EVERYTHING, the tough part is that most people are visual creatures by nature, imho. Especially when swimming through an ocean of, oh, I dunno, a bazillion books? :P
Hmm. We all agonize over the almighty blurb (I'm making a gross assumption because I personally obsess over blurbs tee hee) because it's how we get readers to open the book, right? Wellllll, I kinda sorta feel like the cover is on the same level of importance (not saying that it should be!) as the blurb. Personally, I feel like it's vital for your book to appear "valuable" (totes the wrong word LOL) because people will always make assumptions based on 1st impressions. Even if it's only subconscious. Again, human nature, eh?
I think Miss Virginia makes some uberly valid points. And while I'm a complete DIYer and just whip up my own covers (in MS Word of all places, for shame!), I still do my best to make it look "professional" enough that (hopefully) no one thinks, "Huh. She made that herself" even though I totally did :D
On the flip side, I'm also super stubborn and a bit of a rebel. Like, I've had a few people wonder if my book was erotica (it's not at all) because yes, I'll admit the cover does convey that message. Soooo the sensible thing to do would be to scrap the cover and redo it. I get that. But...heh...I like it, so I don't care LOL. With that being said, I did modify the blurb to make it clear that it's NOT erotica because I don't wanna mislead anyone, ya know? And I'm 100% ready to take criticism for it when that comes my way. Because, hey, it was my choice :)
But, yeah, I love, love, LOVE getting honest feedback but I'm a firm believer in "unasked for advice is criticism" and all that good jazz, so I would never ever give someone my opinion without being explicitly asked for it.
Ummm. I did that thing again. No idea what I'm trying to say. Sooo...
Hugs,
Ann
EDIT: Miss Sue! *waves* Ain't nothing wrong with doing it yourself, ma'am! And if there is, well, then I'm doing it wrong ;)
Sue (Dog Mom) wrote: "Ah... besides grammar, here's another reason I'm terrified to publish. I lost my job last New Year's Eve. For three years prior, my husband was unemployed. Now he has a temp job with crap pay. We a..."I'm so sorry. Losing a job is terrifying. Especially when you can barely survive on one pay. I hope all gets better for you soon.
As for covers, it's true: haters will be haters. Make your letters white they will complain they should be blue. Make them blue, and of course they should be white. If they are large, they are too big and vice versa. They always find something to say. I'm not talking about the ones who are actually trying to help with civilized criticism but rather about those who seem to be born just to criticize. It's ok to say something like this: Could you try it blue instead of white, or bigger, smaller etc. That IS fine. One can't see what it would look like until one tries. But some will make fun of whatever they will see. Ignore those. It's not worth the pain and aches. Do your best, you'll probably get more lovers than haters. (Although the former are often more quiet than the latter.)
Remember that people laughed at Picasso's work. I bet those people regretted not buying his paintings.
That said, sometimes, I'm half tempted to try and publish a book with a white cover and black, simple lettering. Nothing more. No one could say the picture was photo shopped (or not) without sounding ridiculous. :P
GG my last book has a plain black cover and white writing and it doesn't seem to be hurting the book any. Of course there's no real way to tell maybe tons of people are skipping over it because they hate the cover but so far it seems to be doing okay. I figure if my book looks unique then either love it or hate it people may be interested in actually reading the blurb and hopefully taking that more seriously than the cover! And I believe (hopefully readers will too) that the cover fits both the theme of the book (dark mystery/suspense with a bit of romance), and the series it's part of, and the next book in the series has the same black cover with yellow writing this time around!
Annie, I figure if my story stinks, that will bring out even more bad reviews and it won't matter how my cover looks. : )G.G. - Thank you for your concern. Yes, Happy 2016 to us. I only hope we don't wind up homeless by 2017. I'm scared, but we're doing what we can. We're actually selling everything that's not nailed down on eBay. Did okay with that the end of last year, but it's not like we have collectibles either.
I believe I have some good ideas, but am concerned about taking a photo and stretching the size for a CS paperback. We do not have any fancy photo software. I'll just do the best I can because that's all I can do.
This topic has been frozen by the moderator. No new comments can be posted.
Part of me is like, well, at least they were passionate enough about it to comment about and make insulting remarks, another part wants to comment and say snarky things, and another part is like wow, these people must have really pathetic lives if they created a website to tear apart someone's book cover. Like ever heard the saying don't judge a book by its cover? They did, apparently, but they have this sort of annoying explanation of why it doesn't matter. Whatever.
I don't know. I just felt kind of...depressed reading all of it. Not going to change a thing about my cover, but...yeah.
Does anyone else feel sort of...sad (I can't figure out a better word for the feeling) about this? This being that there are people out there that spend time ripping into other people's work without even having the good grace to come out and say it to them in the open. It is silly/pathetic. But anyway.